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| moonzoomer |
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 moonzoomer World Chat Champion
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 janner_10 World Chat Champion

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 CaNsA Super Spammer

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 map Mr Calendar

Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :     
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 Posted: 10:57 - 10 Sep 2012 Post subject: Re: Failure to display Mot Disc |
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| moonzoomer |
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 moonzoomer World Chat Champion
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 janner_10 World Chat Champion

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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 11:46 - 10 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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Hmm, that's a new one on me.
First up, you haven't been "fined", you've been given an opportunity to pay a bribe and admit guilt.
If you don't, then it's probably up to them to prosecute and convict you in a court. I say "probably" because VERA 1994 has some very interesting ideas about the burden of proof for some offences.
Whether they can convict you entirely depends on the statute; you'll need to find that and read it carefully. Do they mention it with that demand for a bribe?
For comparison, if it were a tax disc then it would have to be fixed to the vehicle in a holder sufficient to protect the licence from the weather to which it would otherwise be exposed ... on the near side of the vehicle ... so exhibited that all the particulars on the licence are clearly visible in daylight from the near side of the road.
I stress that's for VED discs though, you're going to have to find the statute and regulations - if any - that govern display of that test disc. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| moonzoomer |
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 moonzoomer World Chat Champion
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| map |
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 map Mr Calendar

Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :     
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 Posted: 12:23 - 10 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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| moonzoomer wrote: | This article does state that the disc should be in a holder when on a motorcycle, it sis in a car type disc holder though its not water proof but still does the same job imo. Very petty I think...In the case of motorcycles the certificate should be displayed on the nearside of the motorcycle in a weatherproof container.... |
I was intrigued by this so went off and did a google.
The amendment statutue is here - The Motor Vehicle Testing (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2008 - No. 109 Regulation 3.
| Government wrote: | After regulation 14 of the principal Regulations insert the following regulation—
“Display of test certificates and duplicate test certificates14A—(1) Where a vehicle test certificate is issued under regulation 12 or 13, or a duplicate of an original certificate is issued under regulation 18, in each case Part 2 of that certificate or that duplicate (in this regulation called “Part 2 of the certificate or duplicate”) shall be attached to the vehicle in a holder sufficient to protect it from the weather to which it would otherwise be exposed and shall be carried on the vehicle at all times when the vehicle is on a road or other public place and shall be displayed as specified in paragraphs (2) and (3).
(2) Part 2 of the certificate or duplicate shall be displayed on the vehicle—
(a)in the case of a light motor bicycle or motor bicycle, other than in a case specified in sub-paragraph (b) or (c), on the near side of the vehicle;
(b)in the case of a light motor bicycle or motor bicycle drawing a side-car or to which a side-car is attached, on the near side of the handlebars of the bicycle or on the near side of the side-car;
(c)in the case of a vehicle fitted with a glass windscreen in front of the driver extending across the vehicle to its near side, on or adjacent to the near side of the windscreen;
(d)in the case of any other vehicle —
(i)if the vehicle is fitted with a driver’s cab containing a near side window, on that window; or
(ii)on the near side of the vehicle in front of the driver’s seat and not less than 760 mm and not more than 1.8 metres above the surface of the road.
(3) In the case of each vehicle referred to in paragraph (2), Part 2 of the certificate or duplicate shall be so displayed that all the particulars are clearly visible in daylight from the near side of the road.”.
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So, no mention of a holder unless you can show me where I've missed it. Clearly visible in daylight is an arguable point as it is down to personal opinion. As can be seen from the photo it is visible.
Where you're getting waterproof container from in the news release as it doesn't appear in the statute. The nearest is "a holder sufficient to protect it from the weather" that you have achieved using the sticky backed plastic method.
Is there a date and time that this alleged crime took place? If there is a time is it what you would describe as daytime (for daylight?), rather than say dusk.
Just some points. Maybe take some legal advice if you want to challenge it based on the actual wording of the statute rather than some press release.
 ____________________ ...and the whirlwind is in the thorn trees, it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks...
Gibbs, what did Duckie look like when he was younger?  |
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| moonzoomer |
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 moonzoomer World Chat Champion
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 map Mr Calendar

Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :     
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| GREENI3 |
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 GREENI3 World Chat Champion
Joined: 26 Nov 2010 Karma :  
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 Posted: 14:35 - 10 Sep 2012 Post subject: Re: Failure to display Mot Disc |
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I'm sure the flash from the camera had no effect on enhancing the visibility of the disc.
Show us a pic in daylight before we can make an accurate judgement. |
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| Alpha-9 |
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 Alpha-9 Super Spammer

Joined: 19 Jan 2012 Karma :  
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 Posted: 14:38 - 10 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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Wtf is an MOT disc
Oh Northern Ireland, fuck that
Sorry, dunno
Glad we don't have that here, keep quiet, don't give them any ideas ____________________ Fzr-600 1999 |
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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 15:33 - 10 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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map wins teh internets. Sadly, there is a statutory basis behind it, The Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1995.
The wording of the regs for the test disc appears to be identical to the ones for VED discs, which is fair enough.
| moonzoomer wrote: | I have sent the same pic to DVA as I am contesting the fine |
What fine?
Again: you have not been "fined". There's nothing to "contest" yet, although they may choose to drop it at this point. You're just declining the opportunity to bribe them.
You'll want to get a picture in bright daylight and if it's clearly visible on that, invite them to either prosecute you or get fucked. Which really just means ignoring them until and unless you get a summons.
Sounds like an anti-bike copper, looking for any excuse to screw you over. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| moonzoomer |
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 moonzoomer World Chat Champion
Joined: 01 Jul 2012 Karma :   
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 Posted: 17:04 - 10 Sep 2012 Post subject: Re: Failure to display Mot Disc |
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| BlueCB wrote: | I'm sure the flash from the camera had no effect on enhancing the visibility of the disc.
Show us a pic in daylight before we can make an accurate judgement. |
taken in natural light, no flash
https://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n604/mawlarky/MVC-336F-1.jpg |
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| moonzoomer |
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 moonzoomer World Chat Champion
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| GREENI3 |
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 GREENI3 World Chat Champion
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 Posted: 17:10 - 10 Sep 2012 Post subject: Re: Failure to display Mot Disc |
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Not too bad.
They're probably just kicking up a fuss because the screens tinted.
That, or whoever's job it is to go round checking these things, does so accompanied by a guide dog. |
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 map Mr Calendar

Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :     
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 Posted: 17:45 - 10 Sep 2012 Post subject: Re: Failure to display Mot Disc |
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| BlueCB wrote: | Not too bad.
They're probably just kicking up a fuss because the screens tinted.
That, or whoever's job it is to go round checking these things, does so accompanied by a guide dog. |
Actually FWIW on that pic to me it doesn't look that tinted.
Certainly not hidden and info is visible. ____________________ ...and the whirlwind is in the thorn trees, it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks...
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| daemonoid |
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 daemonoid World Chat Champion

Joined: 27 Jun 2008 Karma :    
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 Posted: 00:13 - 11 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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| map wrote: | I was intrigued by this so went off and did a google.
The amendment statutue is here - The Motor Vehicle Testing (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2008 - No. 109 Regulation 3.
| Government wrote: | After regulation 14 of the principal Regulations insert the following regulation—
“Display of test certificates and duplicate test certificates14A—(1) Where a vehicle test certificate is issued under regulation 12 or 13, or a duplicate of an original certificate is issued under regulation 18, in each case Part 2 of that certificate or that duplicate (in this regulation called “Part 2 of the certificate or duplicate”) shall be attached to the vehicle in a holder sufficient to protect it from the weather to which it would otherwise be exposed and shall be carried on the vehicle at all times when the vehicle is on a road or other public place and shall be displayed as specified in paragraphs (2) and (3).
<snip> |
So, no mention of a holder unless you can show me where I've missed it. Clearly visible in daylight is an arguable point as it is down to personal opinion. As can be seen from the photo it is visible. |
Highlighted it in italics just a word before your first bolding...
Kinda stupid rule though, OP was following the spirit if not the letter of the law. Maybe he can wriggle out of it on the "to which it would otherwise be exposed" by pointing out rain can't fall up and to the left. ____________________ current: ducati monster 750
past: hyosung gt250r, bajaj pulsar 180, hyosung gt 125 comet
@thomasgarrard | www.straitjkt.com | www.racingseven.com |
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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 07:15 - 11 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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I don't think any wiggling is required. Take along that picture, or for that matter park the bike outside and invite the bench to go and look at it. Ask "Has it blown off or got soaked? Can you see it? No, yes? Costs, please."
Worst case, plead to be admonished. If there's ever a case that should have been dealt with by "words of advice" it's this one.
But like chilli soaked buggery would I pay that bribe. Prosecute or GTFO, and if it's No Further Actioned, let the local cop shop know. A "ha ha" wouldn't be out of order. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| moonzoomer |
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 moonzoomer World Chat Champion
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| moonzoomer |
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 moonzoomer World Chat Champion
Joined: 01 Jul 2012 Karma :   
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 Posted: 11:45 - 11 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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| daemonoid wrote: | | map wrote: | I was intrigued by this so went off and did a google.
The amendment statutue is here - The Motor Vehicle Testing (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2008 - No. 109 Regulation 3.
| Government wrote: | After regulation 14 of the principal Regulations insert the following regulation—
“Display of test certificates and duplicate test certificates14A—(1) Where a vehicle test certificate is issued under regulation 12 or 13, or a duplicate of an original certificate is issued under regulation 18, in each case Part 2 of that certificate or that duplicate (in this regulation called “Part 2 of the certificate or duplicate”) shall be attached to the vehicle in a holder sufficient to protect it from the weather to which it would otherwise be exposed and shall be carried on the vehicle at all times when the vehicle is on a road or other public place and shall be displayed as specified in paragraphs (2) and (3).
<snip> |
So, no mention of a holder unless you can show me where I've missed it. Clearly visible in daylight is an arguable point as it is down to personal opinion. As can be seen from the photo it is visible. |
Highlighted it in italics just a word before your first bolding...
Kinda stupid rule though, OP was following the spirit if not the letter of the law. Maybe he can wriggle out of it on the "to which it would otherwise be exposed" by pointing out rain can't fall up and to the left. |
If you think that rule is stupid it gets worse, the DVA are trying to get a new rule put through for next January that will effect drivers who have just passed their tests " any driver 24 years old or younger cannot carry a young passenger unless a member of the drivers family"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18249137 |
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| itsallgood |
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 itsallgood Nitrous Nuisance
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 map Mr Calendar

Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :     
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 Posted: 20:47 - 12 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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| daemonoid wrote: | <other stuff>...
Kinda stupid rule though, OP was following the spirit if not the letter... |
That shouldn't be a problem I thought you were all related in that part of the world anyhow  ____________________ ...and the whirlwind is in the thorn trees, it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks...
Gibbs, what did Duckie look like when he was younger?  |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 13 years, 158 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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