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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 20 Jan 2013    Post subject: Vintage bike advice Reply with quote

After visiting the London Bike show my Girlfriend loved all those fauxretro bikes that look sleek and have a £900 price tag!

Anyway I figure restoring a real retro bike will be cheaper and cooler I've been looking on ebay and come across these 2 from the same seller that are cool.


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200879776339?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200879769816?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Obviously one needs a lot more work than the other.

My main question is how easy is it to get parts for them? I don't want to buy one and find it impossible to to find headsets/BB's for it.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 19:42 - 20 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have fun with 26 tpi, if you get an old raleigh....

If you do want to convert a 26 TPI bottom bracket to modern sealed cartridge in your adventures this may come in handy.

https://www.bicyclehub.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=57&Itemid=117

I'm considering doing the same to my old raleigh, to get the square-taper bb, and therefore a better choice of cranksets. The current crankset is far too hard to ride down here with the SA 3-speed hub. Riding with 3 speed hub + cheap mtb triple crankset could be fun!
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:02 - 21 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

A brief look at the first one suggests to me that it will be an absolute nightmare getting parts for.

It's rare and interesting but to do a restoration job on it would be tricky and to upgrade to modern parts would ruin what makes it interesting in the first place

Very interesting though. The brakes are WAY ahead of their time, just look at that rear cantilever. If they aren't functional, it's heard to think of what you'd do in their place. You'd probably want a modern bottom bracket for regular use too and it would be criminal to junk that lovely crankset. Not sure if you can even get replacement cotter-pin type BBs.

And the geared hub? It's a lot of work.

So the Motobecane would be a better prospect for a sort of retro-cool bike fitted with more modern running gear. You could legitimately fit a sealed BB and upgrade the front calliper. The rear one is still a bit weird though. You could fit a modern derralieur or possibly even a hub gear rear wheel.

I probably wouldn't chose either of them though on the basis that they are foreign and slightly weird.

Remember, there is next to no standardisation on bicycles and it gets worse as they get older.

Expect to spend an absolute MINIMUM of £450 on the first bike to get it rideable. Expect a whole lot of cleaning up on the second and in the region of £200 on bits and pieces.

Here. Found a lovely BSA ready to ride away. Don't know how it's so cheap.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-BSA-Ladies-Dutch-Style-Town-Bike-/290843499990?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item43b79f9dd6

EDIT: As has been said,l you can get BBs that will fit, you even get threadless ones BUT you then have to junk the crankset because they use cotter pins. You can get threadless headsets too but if you're lucky, you'll find cups etc in parts bins etc.

Here's a top tip though. Most big cities have a bicycle recyling place where all the ones that get fished out of rivers and such land up. There's one in York that has a load of volounteer workers cobbling together working bikes and selling them cheap in their shop. However, the sort of person who works there is by nature a bicycle hoarder. Find out where their workshop is.

The one in York usually has maybe 10-15 bikes for sale. The WORKSHOP however has somewhere in the region of 3-400 bikes in various states of dismatling/repair. They tend to land up with loads of those ladies racer type bikes with the double top tube you're looking at. Some really nice examples with 531 steel frames and such but they can't shift them because people want conventional "mans" racer frames.

Just check the seatpost isn't stuck.

This is important actually. A seized seatpost makes a lot of vintage bike frames scrap unless you're prepared to spend a lot of time with a long blacksmiths drill. ESPECIALLY the ones you're looking at.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 21 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
A brief look at the first one suggests to me that it will be an absolute nightmare getting parts for.

It's rare and interesting but to do a restoration job on it would be tricky and to upgrade to modern parts would ruin what makes it interesting in the first place

Very interesting though. The brakes are WAY ahead of their time, just look at that rear cantilever. If they aren't functional, it's heard to think of what you'd do in their place. You'd probably want a modern bottom bracket for regular use too and it would be criminal to junk that lovely crankset. Not sure if you can even get replacement cotter-pin type BBs.

And the geared hub? It's a lot of work.

So the Motobecane would be a better prospect for a sort of retro-cool bike fitted with more modern running gear. You could legitimately fit a sealed BB and upgrade the front calliper. The rear one is still a bit weird though. You could fit a modern derralieur or possibly even a hub gear rear wheel.

I probably wouldn't chose either of them though on the basis that they are foreign and slightly weird.

Remember, there is next to no standardisation on bicycles and it gets worse as they get older.

Expect to spend an absolute MINIMUM of £450 on the first bike to get it rideable. Expect a whole lot of cleaning up on the second and in the region of £200 on bits and pieces.

Here. Found a lovely BSA ready to ride away. Don't know how it's so cheap.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-BSA-Ladies-Dutch-Style-Town-Bike-/290843499990?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item43b79f9dd6

EDIT: As has been said,l you can get BBs that will fit, you even get threadless ones BUT you then have to junk the crankset because they use cotter pins. You can get threadless headsets too but if you're lucky, you'll find cups etc in parts bins etc.

Here's a top tip though. Most big cities have a bicycle recyling place where all the ones that get fished out of rivers and such land up. There's one in York that has a load of volounteer workers cobbling together working bikes and selling them cheap in their shop. However, the sort of person who works there is by nature a bicycle hoarder. Find out where their workshop is.

The one in York usually has maybe 10-15 bikes for sale. The WORKSHOP however has somewhere in the region of 3-400 bikes in various states of dismatling/repair. They tend to land up with loads of those ladies racer type bikes with the double top tube you're looking at. Some really nice examples with 531 steel frames and such but they can't shift them because people want conventional "mans" racer frames.

Just check the seatpost isn't stuck.

This is important actually. A seized seatpost makes a lot of vintage bike frames scrap unless you're prepared to spend a lot of time with a long blacksmiths drill. ESPECIALLY the ones you're looking at.


Cheers I was hoping you would post!

£450 is way too much, maybe I'm being naive but I excepted to get it gleaming for £150 tops.

Why do you think it would be so much?

I figured £50 on powder coating/shotblasting £50 on bearings/cables/pads etc. Then another £50 on spokes, a saddle and misc bits.

I'll keep an eye on it and if it goes for pennies I might get it. If all else fails it coulds be used for welding practice. Laughing

That BSA is lovely and not too far away, but the idea was a project the misses and I could do together. However I firmly believe there is little chance of us making a bike anywhere near that nice for that much money! I'll run it by her.

What would you suggested I look out for to get a bike of a similar style?
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 13:48 - 21 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

From here looking at that first one and ballpark figures.

Chain: £16
Pedals: £20
Saddle: £35
Handlebars: £25
BB: Let's say £25
front wheel: £70
Cables+ or - levers : £25
Tyres (pair): £50
tubes: £10
Seatpost: £15
Bearings: £10
Brake pads: £25
Bar grips: £10

So that's us up to £336.

Does the hub gear work?

Bicycle building is expensive. You CAN get cheap bits but really? For your Girlfriend?

You'll get a gleaming unrideable piece of crap for £150 or a tatty working bike for £400.

EDIT: I should say, I just did a bike for the Mother in Law. Raleigh Pioneer frame, built it with Sturmey archer hubs, decent rims, couple of sets of brake callipers, new levers, BB bars etc. etc. In probably into it for £500 but it's all been done properly.

Once you've done the job yourself, you can see why a GOOD restoration job costs what it does. The question is how good? A lot of the ones you see for sale in these boutique shops are actually cobbled together from second rate crap cycle parts with expensive detailing.

Home-built could well be the way to go because you CAN use sealed hubs, high quality chains, swiss spokes, dressed rims, Japanese bearings etc. but it isn't cheap.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 21 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like building on is out then. Far too much money!

I'll see what she says about that BSA if not keep looking, do you have any suggestions as to what would make a good project with easy to get parts?
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 21 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
Looks like building on is out then. Far too much money!

I'll see what she says about that BSA if not keep looking, do you have any suggestions as to what would make a good project with easy to get parts?


You're dealing with a woman here.

What does she like the look and colour of? What does she want to do with it?

The BSA I posted will be heavy as fuck and the rod brakes are useless but it is the genuine article.

What you want is a working bike to tart up, not a restoration project if I read you right. So go for that, one that says it's ready to ride.

Or seriously, get in with a local bike salvage/recycling place, they'll usually let you have a rake around for parts. There was even one in Edinburgh that would let you use their workshop facilities for a small fee.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 21 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another idea.

Take her to Amsterdam for a weekend. Bring a bike back on the ferry.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 15:04 - 21 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I was looking for was an interesting looking old bike, That I could strip down paint/polish all the parts, replace all the consumables/bearings etc. and have a tidy looking retro bike for her to use. Is that not a restoration? I don't have a great deal of experience but I think I have done every job that needs to be done on modern bikes barring replacing a bottom bracket and building a wheel. so figure I should be able to handle this.

Colour isn't an issue as it will be getting a fresh coat of paint, She liked the first bike I posted because of the art deco chain guard I liked the second for the lamps built into the mudgaurds. I think anything that would look good with a basket is what she is after Laughing

Maybe something pre 80's isn't such a good idea, especially if the brakes are turd and can't be sorted easily. She can ride a bike but isn't a cyclist if you know what I mean, I doubt she will be getting up much speed on this thing but I would like it to stop well.



https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/raleigh-caprice-ladies-classic-shopper-bike/1006980946

??? Looks like alot less work, and has new tyres which should save some cash. It looks early 80's to me are parts standardised by then?
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 15:30 - 21 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. There is pretty no standardisation on bicycles, it's total chaos. Even if two manufacturers say something is the same size, it doesn't always follow they are neasuring them from the same place.

Standard calliper brakes can be upgraded really easily and fairly cheaply for double pivot ones. The bikes you pictured don't have standard callipers.

Search Ebay for "dutch bike". Plenty on there.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 16:29 - 21 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me re-phraze then, not standard but available.

I know with my Specialized Hardrock I can go into 90% of bikes shops and walk out with a headset or bottom bracket. Will that be impossible with that last bike I posted?
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 09:52 - 22 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
Let me re-phraze then, not standard but available.

I know with my Specialized Hardrock I can go into 90% of bikes shops and walk out with a headset or bottom bracket. Will that be impossible with that last bike I posted?


Yes, you'll get parts for it. More so than the French ones. But I garauntee there will still be an odd weird bit. Modern threadless headsets are more standardised but you're not going to find a bike over 15 years old with a threadless headset. I'd suggest if it's very notchy, you should walk away just in case you have to make do with the existing cups.

In fairness, I'd expect parts to be available for the motobecane you posted, it's just some of the parts there are pretty weird (like the rear brake calliper). Certainly available in France but over here?

I'll say again, make sure the seat post is not seized before you buy, make it a stipulation of the sale. If the seatpost is seized when you pick it up, they get a slap around the face with a wet haddock.

I've had a Raleigh shopper steering stem snap in half due to metal fatigue before, just so as you know.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Fladdem
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PostPosted: 22:45 - 26 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to say I finished a 1958 Raleigh, don't know the model, but it is never finished, there is always something else to fettl with when you get a bike from a skip, you can get old style bottom brackets but brand new still, you just need to search around, I left mine as standard as possible, I even left the patina. It's a working bike but looks like it belongs back in the skip it came from, I have two sets of mudguards and chain guards for it, the orignals and a spare set from a '54 raleigh but the frame is snapped and most of it is too far gone. the spare set is mint the paintwork is fantastic the set I use on it has had the paint stripped off, rust allowed to settle in then lacquered to give it that rat look. I even kept the old rod brakes but the rods needed mending and welding back togther in places Confused then painted matte black
There is a guy on ebay who has almost everything you will need at amazing prices but I can't recall the name, so isn't really much help.
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.
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Fladdem
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 26 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also if you are worried about sturmey archer 3 speed hubs, they are fairly easy to work on and are brilliant fun compared to modern derailleurs without the risk of breaking a derailleur. If you ever get the chance to take a bicycle down to all of its components and put it back together and actually be able to ride it again the feeling is like nothing else, I would also suggest british bikes as then all the raleigh, BSA, Triumph, Humber parts are all the same, or similar as they are the same bikes but with different badges like the citroen c1 and peugot 106, same car different badges.
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 10:28 - 28 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old bikes are harder to get parts for as each country seems to have had it's own different sizes and fittings that the manufacturers used.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk is where I got a load of bits for my 60's road racer.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 14:07 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221183057212?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

This is looking like a good candidate, plus it's a Triumph!
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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Fladdem
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PostPosted: 19:43 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks like my ladies triumph, the one with the split frame, rusted through and cracked by the headset Sad I can't weld and can't really be bothered to do that one up so it's a doner bike for my '33 raleigh, '54 humber and '58 raleigh. My mum hates me bringing back bikes all the time, 20 bikes now I just got my Specialized P2 frame with enough parts to build four more.
It's in better nick than any of mine have been got in and a basket is ALWAYS a good thing, especially if it is original, like stated, might get more if it stays smart if you sell it on?
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 16:21 - 04 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I won it for £54 Cool I think that's a bargin, it looks in good nick.

I'll put up a thread once it is stripped down and ready to be tarted!

I don't think it'll be sold, but if it is and I do it well it should turn a nice profit I think. Especially if people actually pay the £800 tag for some of the bikes fauxretro bikes I've seen.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 16:27 - 04 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any advice for dealing with the brightwork? I'm guessing it won't be stainless steel or alloy. Will it be chrome or some other kind of plating? Would replating be the only what to refurb it if required?
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 20:14 - 04 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're talking rims and they are totally shagged, it would be cheaper and easier to fit new ones. They are a wearing componant anyway. I'd expect them to go for less than £20 each.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Fladdem
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PostPosted: 23:46 - 04 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, rims are no problem, just, if it is rod braked, make sure you find a rod brake compatible rim, as the rod pull the pads onto the some surface the spokes are on as opposed to the sides like normal modern rims, the rims are actually bigger than modern ones as well, on modern 26" wheels it is measured from tyre edge to tyre edge whereas older bikes are 26 from edge of the rim to the other, bear this in mind should a new wheel set be required.
Most of the older bikes will be chrome plated where there isn't paint, so levers, bars, rims, rods, hubs and seat posts normally, probably more parts but I don't know.
If it all works for fifty four squids you do have a bargain, sayin that all of my classic bikes have been found in skips or by asking the scrapman very kindly to let me have it off the back of his van Wink Free is always the best.
For my bikes, depending if I wanted the rat-look or original I would either just lacquer the rust in or, get some WD40 and tin foil spray the patch of rust and rub the tin foil on there, as the tin foil is harder than rust it scratches the rust off but the chrome plating is harder then the tin foil so technically the chrome scratches the tin foil but anyway the rust comes off without damaging the chrome then just crack out the autosol and give it a good polish, unless it's really pitted then this will just give you shiny pits it would be best to rechrome then, or maybe pilfer/buy/acquire some fresh components.
____________________
Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 05 Feb 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
If you're talking rims and they are totally shagged, it would be cheaper and easier to fit new ones. They are a wearing componant anyway. I'd expect them to go for less than £20 each.


I was contemplating rebuilding the wheels I'm a little apprehensive as I've never done it before! I'll see what it's like when I get there. In the photo it looks in very good nick!
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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