Bell insurance black boxes

[kramdra]

Thought this is worthy of a thread. I have heard about this idea before but did not realise it had been implemented


Im not 100% opposed to the idea, however I feel it should not have any communication ability. It should be a recorder that police can access after a bad crash rather than a spy device monitored round the clock by insurers to put your premium up. It should be optional, I would not want one myself and if it were forced on me I'd like to see it hacked, sending them pictures of kittens to lower my premium


Some links to read up on
https://blackboxinsurancereviews.com/reviews/black-box-insurance-the-truth/

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=10&t=1208259

[arry]

[Ingah]

I'm against these for similar reasons to arry.
____________________
-- Ingah

[Rogerborg]

I'm fine with spyboxes, as long as it doesn't impinge on the storage space for my pipe and slippers. What I don't follow is how exactly that information is going to be used.

I mean, what happens at the end of the policy or whenever an assessment point is reached, and Computer Says No? In my case, it might very well be because the box reports that I've done far fewer miles than I estimated that I would (in my car).

Extra charge? Refund? How much? On what criteria? I've read a few headlines, but I'm vague on the specifics.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[arry]

[kramdra]

If you compare the type of drivers and the type of accidents Im sure the "safer" drivers actually cause a lot more.

If one of these boxes was on a car and it SMIDSY's a motorbike, is that going to affect the claim? will data be provided to the 3rd party? will the fact one has a box make the bike seem at fault


How far will they go with this? they could make cars share data with others nearby and plod, camera to record others. Overtake somone at 72mph, instant fine

I dont see it as a reduction in premiums. It gives them a lot more data for which they can claim you are a higher risk, and then a huge oppertunity to fine you if they dont like it.

[Berk]

While I was doing my driving lessons my instructor told me about another student of his that had a black box from her insurers. We'd just come out of a lane onto a fairly fast road that curved away, he pointed out that someone coming along the road might not see you emerge until they were fairly close, so advised that I basically put my foot down and get up to speed a bit faster than normal.
He'd given the same advice to this other student, especially as it was a junction she would use quite often. All went well, but when he spoke to her next week she said that she'd followed his advice while practising in her own car, uploaded the data from the black box a few days later and got flagged up for "excessive acceleration" and warned by the software that repeated flags like that might affect her insurance premiums.

Sounds like crap to me, I wouldn't want to be crawling out of that side road.

[arry]

[Rogerborg]

Sorry, I'm still not getting it.

1. Install spybox.
2. ...
3. Profit

It rather sounds like step 2 is "people will drive more timidly because they know they're being monitored, even though there's no direct effect on their premium at all."

A bit like those cardboard cut out coppers they use in Poundland (and I don't mean PCSOs).
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[arry]

Typed a big reply and fricking lost it

Oh well. Anyway, it's about more accurately pricing drivers based on their driving and how it compares to the average, rather than assuming they're an average driver based on a subset of data collated from their peers. It gives people that are good drivers the chance to lower their premiums by proving that they're good drivers, and if they turn out not to be good drivers - gives them the chance to alter their driving to be a better driver, leading (hopefully, of course) to a reduction in accident frequency and severity, and with that lower claims costs, which means more sustainable insurance solutions for all.

[kramdra]

You seem unaware there are plans for this to become compulsory and is already in law in the US (Section 31406 of Senate Bill 1813 - MAP-21), although it states "data event recorder" rather than telematrics. That implies to me that physical access is required to get data and that insurers do not have access, but may be wrong.

[Rogerborg]

Very valid points about this not recording actual bad driving. You missed tailgating.

However, I'm still not seeing the mechanism that will alter prices based on driving. Any discount that an insurer might give you for pipe-and-slippers bimbling around would presumably be swallowed up in the 2nd year 'loyalty penalty' (pronounced 'introductory bonus from everyone else'). The thought of renewing with the same insurer just seems bizarre now.

And given that insurers apparently still don't even have a common NCD system (what with all the posting of bits of paper around), I can't see them sharing driving style stats between each other.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Thought Norwich Union (as was) had tried black box type things about a decade or so ago but given it up as a bad idea with little demand.

What would be interesting is the raw stats to figure out the actual relationship between driving style and risk. Suspect it might not be anything like as clear cut as the assumptions made when setting up these schemes.

As an aside, seems likely that having one of these as a condition of the policy would be dubious once the certificate has been delivered. Think it would come under 'the carrying on the vehicle of any particular apparatus' as a clause that would have no effect.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[arry]

[BTTD]

The point of making a city 20mph throughout is to make it more attractive to pedestrians and cyclists - thereby reducing the overall amount of vehicular traffic and reducing congestion.
In a dense city environment, 30mph v 20mph doesn't make all that much difference. You'll still get stuck at the lights / queue at the next junction which is what really impacts journey time.

[Joncrete Cungle]

I can forsee anyone daft enough to volunteer to install one in their vehicle being ripe for a speculative state fishing trip. Doris McCurtaintwitcher vaguely reports a small black car suspected of endangering kittens on Blossom Avenue outside number 117.

PCSO Cross searches for cars that have been driven down Blossom Avenue on the day in question, finds that divvy Dave drove his black Corsa at 21mph in a 20 zone. Divvy Dave gets a S59.

Not to mention all the data the rozzers can and will eventually get if you are suspected of speeding, dangerous driving, driving without due care and attention or pulling wheelies etc.

[Rogerborg]

It is a concern.

However, unless the systems have Home Office and VOSA certification out the wazoo, PCSO Cross (who has no business acting like a warranted constable anyway) has no chance of getting a conviction. I've confirmed that (most) traffic offences aren't counted as sanctioned detections anyway, so it won't be on his targets performance metrics.

Bear in mind that the vasty network of ANPR cameras could (with a little re-porpoising) be used to hand out speeding tax left, right and centre, if revenue or targets start dropping off.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Kickstart]

[Minty]

[arry]

[Minty]

I used it knowing my mobike would not be its friend. Croydon would have come higher than 3rd were it not for me!
____________________
My fingers smell of your mum.

[Rogue_Shadow]

As long as the existing "pay money, get insured" system still exists.
The insurance company's can stick their every judging magic box up their ...

I drive
I ride (debatable)

I don't want to be constantly monitored come under scrutiny, just because I fancy using the engines potential every now and again.

On the flipside, if they introduce them including features such as "tracker". Letting the rider view his route, locate this motorcycle when stolen and identify when a possible crash has occurred and contact assistance.
ONLY then would I contemplate one, providing how dependent the policy price was on riders riding style.

[daemonoid]

I'm still a bit language challenged over here*, but I have insurance and having had a discussion with the broker it works like this...

Your vehicle has a value and a power rating (PS). Your insurance is then calculated based on that.

No alterations for age, no alterations for driving style, no alterations for mileage.

Prices for many things over here are higher than the UK, but insurance is still reasonable. I paid ~£300 for my BMW330d, the prices are reasonable because they don't have to spend all the time calculating the daily risk (and the people & computing resources are huge in the UK).

Everyone pays the same, like proper insurance should be. Over a lifetime everyone benefits. Older people pay more than the UK, but generally they can afford it more and the savings younger people make are huge!


*Luxembourg
____________________
current: ducati monster 750
past: hyosung gt250r, bajaj pulsar 180, hyosung gt 125 comet
@thomasgarrard | www.straitjkt.com | www.racingseven.com

[Rogerborg]

Ah, from each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

Throw in a 5 Year Plan, and all drivers will be equal, but some drivers will be more equal than others.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[mysterious_rider]

quoted on a bmw 318i 1996. I'm 22. And 0 no claims on a car.

£1200 without a black box with tesco insurance

and £1600 with a black box (can't remember who)

____________________
KAWASAKIIIII