Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Contactless credit card? You're fucking joking me right?

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Geek Zone Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:26 - 28 Mar 2013    Post subject: Contactless credit card? You're fucking joking me right? Reply with quote

So. My new credit card has an RFID chip in and just pays for stuff up to £20 if you wave it in the general direction of the card reader without requesting a PIN.

I have never heard of such a fuckwitted idea in all my life!

So. Any dickhead with a card reader can swipe my card while it's still in my pocket (I know this because hotel entry keycards work when they're in my wallet). Anyone who steals my wallet no longer needs to know the PIN to use the card.

Apparently they can't supply one without this feature.

Anyone know of a way to disable it without disabling the chip and PIN? Or am I going to have to wrap the fucker in tinfoil?

At the moment, I'm not at all happy carrying it about.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
WANTED: Scrap Royal Enfield Bullet 500cc Engine. PM me.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:31 - 28 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everytime I've used mine it requires contact and for a few seconds with the reader. I don't thin it will work through your wallet.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:49 - 28 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never mind.

I have found out exactly what is where by utilising a non-destructive imaging technique. Might post a pic later once it's dry.

The RFID chip is in the same place as the chip and PIN chip. The antenna runs from the chip, up across the top edge of the card, back down the left edge then back across the middle of the card level with the bottom of the chip.

I'll be able to drill two 1mm holes in it and sever the antenna connection.

There are absolutely no circumstances where I would want to use this feature. It WILL work through my wallet. Hotel keyless entry systems use the exact same card and they work through my wallet while it's still in my pocket.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
WANTED: Scrap Royal Enfield Bullet 500cc Engine. PM me.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

oldpink
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:18 - 28 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going to microwave my new passport till someone showed me this Thumbs Up

http://thecoolgadgets.com/leather-rfid-blocking-wallet/

http://thecoolgadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Leather-RFID-blocking-wallet-493x493.jpg
____________________
I have become comfortably numb

Theory & hazard 24-may 2016, CBT 8th June 2016, MOD 1 2nd Aug 2016 Mod 2 2nd-Nov 2016 - Current bike CBR 600 RR
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

mistergixer
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:34 - 28 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest reading up on the technology before you bother drilling holes in your credit card.

Banks really like it when people steal their money, that's why they're giving out these cards.

Rolling Eyes

Pinky, if you're really that paranoid, you'd be better off wrapping it in tinfoil - it's typically as effective (if not more so) than the wallets.

Thumbs Up
____________________
Space Monkey #7
Don Eladio is dead. His capos are dead. You have no one left to fight for. Fill your pockets and leave in peace. Or fight me and die!
Mistergixer's videos on YouTube
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

The Artist
Super Spammer



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:39 - 28 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember seeing an article about this very problem and it turns out it doesn't really exist.

Scammers can't really get away with much.

e.g. they walk down a street touching peoples pockets or whatever, and manage to steal a few hundred, maybe get over £1k. Then a bunch of people call their banks saying they didn't make that particular transaction and almost instantly, the bank knows who is doing the scam because the account the money goes to will just have a bunch of £19 payments or whatever.

So yeh, there is a very very slim chance of you getting defrauded for up to £20 but you will get it back.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Wobbling Dog
Nova Slayer



Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:08 - 28 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

why bother doing anything ? the whole banking system is going to go tits up this year anyway ! buy gold/brough superiors whilst you can.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Irn-Bru
World Chat Champion



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:14 - 28 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will be protected against fraud anyway. I have used my Barclayscard contactless a few times, mainly in Greggs to buy pasties Laughing Oh and once in London, it never asked for my pin although they say it should every so often.
____________________
KTM 990 SMT & Suzuki DR-Z 400 SM
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

oldpink
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:44 - 28 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

fraud isn't my issue its your traceability
while true "normal readers" are very near field e.g. couple of inches to get a clean read
there has been tests on readers that can read a chip at a meter plus
Oh I do understand the technology, I have a degree in Radio Electronics's Wink

yes certain products on the market are crap but sift through the chaff and there are
good products that work and do what they say
____________________
I have become comfortably numb

Theory & hazard 24-may 2016, CBT 8th June 2016, MOD 1 2nd Aug 2016 Mod 2 2nd-Nov 2016 - Current bike CBR 600 RR
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Liam_
World Chat Champion



Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:56 - 28 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite the name "contactless" you do actually need to hold the card against the reader, someone walking past you can't just skim your card. Also there is the £20 limit.
The contactless payment is far more secure than a PIN transaction.
____________________
I got a dig bick. You this read wrong. You read that wrong too.
CBR125R --> GSXR 600 K4 --> GSXR 1000 K5 --> BMW S1000RR --> Yamaha R1
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

oldpink
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:08 - 28 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

UrbanRacer wrote:

The contactless payment is far more secure than a PIN transaction.


no its not

if someone steals my card they can do contactless
where chip & pin requires them to know your pin number
____________________
I have become comfortably numb

Theory & hazard 24-may 2016, CBT 8th June 2016, MOD 1 2nd Aug 2016 Mod 2 2nd-Nov 2016 - Current bike CBR 600 RR
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

The Artist
Super Spammer



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:15 - 28 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldpink wrote:
UrbanRacer wrote:

The contactless payment is far more secure than a PIN transaction.


no its not

if someone steals my card they can do contactless
where chip & pin requires them to know your pin number


Yeh but £20 that you can get back easily or empty your bank account with the risk of not getting it back.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:20 - 28 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes it even easier to skim cards too.

I'm not using a credit card for small transactions anyway, I use it for big purchases, enhanced buyer protection and as an emergency backup.

Anyway. I've read up on the technology and it relies on there being a loop antenna to power up the chip. No loop = no power.

But where is the antenna?
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8094/8598034767_e7e8de9cda_b.jpg

Oh. THERE you are.

Easy peasy (offset to prevent splitting):
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8085/8599135566_df8564718b.jpg

Incidentally. I have a reader at work that can read an RFID chip inside a plastic ball in a sheeps stomach when it walks through gateway.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
WANTED: Scrap Royal Enfield Bullet 500cc Engine. PM me.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

oldpink
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:25 - 28 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:

Yeh but £20 that you can get back easily or empty your bank account with the risk of not getting it back.


I never use my card for anything less than £100
any purchase below that I pay cash and I never do cashback
I have a pre pay for internet so I only ever have just enough funds to pay for my purchases
____________________
I have become comfortably numb

Theory & hazard 24-may 2016, CBT 8th June 2016, MOD 1 2nd Aug 2016 Mod 2 2nd-Nov 2016 - Current bike CBR 600 RR
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:08 - 29 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming they are all using the same card blanks. It occurrs to me that if you wanted to break the antenna and don't have access to ionising radiation sources to find the exact right spot to drill, you could simply cut off the top right corner of the card.

I seem to remember one company making cards with a corner cut off anyway. Mint?
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
WANTED: Scrap Royal Enfield Bullet 500cc Engine. PM me.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

The Artist
Super Spammer



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:11 - 29 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldpink wrote:
The Artist wrote:

Yeh but £20 that you can get back easily or empty your bank account with the risk of not getting it back.


I never use my card for anything less than £100
any purchase below that I pay cash and I never do cashback
I have a pre pay for internet so I only ever have just enough funds to pay for my purchases


Fair enough. I use my card for any size purchase.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

metalangel
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 02:00 - 29 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:

I seem to remember one company making cards with a corner cut off anyway. Mint?


Why did they do that anyway?

I like my contactless entry card for my apartment. It's in my wallet so I can just bash my left thigh (pocket containing it) against the sensor without having to put my bags full of groceries down.
____________________
Previous: 2002 Honda CB500 (sold), 2007 Suzuki SV650SK6 (crashed), 2005 Yamaha FZ6 Fazer (sold). Currently bikeless Sad
"A faired bike will get you 10x more clunge than a unfaired one." -Marlboro Matt
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Easter Bunny
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:15 - 29 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

metalangel wrote:


I like my contactless entry card for my apartment. It's in my wallet so I can just bash my left thigh (pocket containing it) against the sensor without having to put my bags full of groceries down.



Careful its gonna fry your balls!
____________________
The light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

The Artist
Super Spammer



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:54 - 01 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luL_C0cGe9A

It is spreading to different species.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

oldpink
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:29 - 01 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

^
that has to be an April fool, no way thats for real
____________________
I have become comfortably numb

Theory & hazard 24-may 2016, CBT 8th June 2016, MOD 1 2nd Aug 2016 Mod 2 2nd-Nov 2016 - Current bike CBR 600 RR
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

The Artist
Super Spammer



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:57 - 01 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldpink wrote:
^
that has to be an April fool, no way thats for real


http://theagileproductowner.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/captain-obvious.jpg
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

gusgorman
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 03 Apr 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:54 - 03 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:

Anyway. I've read up on the technology and it relies on there being a loop antenna to power up the chip. No loop = no power.

But where is the antenna?
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8094/8598034767_e7e8de9cda_b.jpg

Oh. THERE you are.

Easy peasy (offset to prevent splitting):
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8085/8599135566_df8564718b.jpg
.


Ha - thats amazing. Nice one. I was going to leave CO-OP because they have issued me with a debit card with this "feature". I presume the loop is in the same place on the debit card.

Just out of interest, what imaging technology did you use?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

rac3r
World Chat Champion



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:30 - 03 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

They work on London buses as well now
____________________
Bikes : 2006 CBR125R - 2004 Monster 620ie - 2004 ZX-6R B1H - 2005 Monster S2R 800 - 2011 Street Triple - 2009 Streetfighter 1098 - 2014 ZX-6R 636

Chequered Flag
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

oldpink
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:17 - 03 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

gusgorman wrote:


Just out of interest, what imaging technology did you use?


looks like Xray to me the L&R are used to orientate the image
(I should know I've had about 50 odd xrays taken over the years)
____________________
I have become comfortably numb

Theory & hazard 24-may 2016, CBT 8th June 2016, MOD 1 2nd Aug 2016 Mod 2 2nd-Nov 2016 - Current bike CBR 600 RR
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:36 - 03 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

gusgorman wrote:

Just out of interest, what imaging technology did you use?


Good old-fashioned film radiography still has its place.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
WANTED: Scrap Royal Enfield Bullet 500cc Engine. PM me.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 4 years, 143 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Geek Zone All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: discovery (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.09 Sec - Server Load: 0.66 - MySQL Queries: 17 - CDN Objects: 55 - Page Size: 139.23 Kb