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Motorcycle roadcraft - which version?

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Khanivore
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 24 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 17:14 - 30 Nov 2013    Post subject: Motorcycle roadcraft - which version? Reply with quote
I want to read the motorcycle roadcraft for police riders book. However, the new version has awful reviews on amazon with claims that there are factual errors that are dangerous and that it has been lifted from the drivers version with errors introduced. I'm not sure which version to get. Can anyone advise?
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Mr Calendar



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 17:27 - 30 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
IIRC you can go by the colour of the cover. I have one that's a few years old, blue cover I believe (next time I wander upstairs I'll see if it's still on the shelf).

I think it's this one from Amazon.
Bad reviews appear to be the new version 2013, green cover - click here.
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Last edited by map on 17:34 - 30 Nov 2013; edited 3 times in total
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BIG ZOOK
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PostPosted: 17:30 - 30 Nov 2013    Post subject: mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Reply with quote
IMO. Thumbs Down don't bother . The whole book can be reduced to a few words "Basically ,slow down and watch where you are going ".Sorry but that`s my take on it.
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Khanivore
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Joined: 24 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 30 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Map yup. I was going to get the 2013 one but have been out off by the reviews. Has anyone here read it and have an opinion on what I should buy?
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Mr Calendar



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 17:41 - 30 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Khanivore wrote:
...going to get the 2013...anyone here read it and have an opinion on what I should buy?

Have not read 2013 but would be interested in a breakdown of the changes.

The old version I would imagine still works with the basics.
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Monkeyjoe
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PostPosted: 17:43 - 30 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I also saw that on Amazon, and bought the older one with the blue cover... havnt read it yet though
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 18:09 - 30 Nov 2013    Post subject: Re: mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Reply with quote
BIG ZOOK wrote:
IMO. Thumbs Down don't bother . The whole book can be reduced to a few words "Basically ,slow down and watch where you are going ".Sorry but that`s my take on it.

The point is that it offers a lot of decent advice on HOW to watch where you are going which people might not instinctively realise - such as 'the vanishing point rule' and the like.
Yes, it mostly is all common sense if you think about it, but that doesn't mean everyone WILL have thought about it already.
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Drax
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 30 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
After reading it several times - I think that common sense is the order of the day! i.e Indicate right when turning right etc.

Basically the rule you should work to is:

Everyone on the road is out to kill you!!!

Everybody clear now? Very Happy
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c-m
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 May 2006
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PostPosted: 21:51 - 30 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I recently finished working for the company that publishes this.

We had a lot of complaints. In particular about the bit that says "wind down your window" lol.

Factual errors like that will be corrected in the (not so) secret reprint.
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reed
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 30 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Spend the money on petrol and gain real world experience?
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 22:26 - 30 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Reed wrote:
Spend the money on petrol and gain real world experience?

The book is specifically intended as a tool to help you practice your riding skills while riding.
It is not intended as an 'either or' - personally, I think it's a fair bit more valuable than £20 worth of petrol for the vast majority of people.
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FriendlyEllis
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Joined: 28 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: 08:51 - 01 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I read the IAM book
How to be a Better Rider: The Essential Guide

Its very down to earth
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0956223915

Yes as people say, its all common sense but sometimes it's good to be reminded of common sense!

Now reading
Motorcycle Roadcraft: The Police Rider's Handbook to Better Motorcycling
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/011341143X

Similar but goes deeper into attitude and how ingrained personality traits can affect your riding etc. Quite deep.
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Matt B
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PostPosted: 11:11 - 01 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Even the older version has some dubious errors (if you want to use that word). For example the section explaining "the system" talks about block changing, something not technically possible with a motorcycle gearbox.

Agreed some of it is dull and obvious but the book also has some good solid advice that many riders would benefit from using.
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J biker
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PostPosted: 19:40 - 01 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bought mine in 2007 to coincide with re learning how to ride (06 R1 rocket ship!).
Cant agree with the summary of it saying 'just slow down'. In fact, its all about road position, observation 'correct' speed ..gear etc. A life saver in fact if reading and understanding what its telling you.
Read it, then re evaluate your riding and safety..or lack of. Then read it again.
Even simple things like where you choose to overtake to avoid being T boned are explained. All so bloody obvious, after reading!
Taken on board and properly absorbed it should make you a better, smoother and safer road rider. Probably faster as well but that is not the point.
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FriendlyEllis
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 01 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Matt B wrote:
Even the older version has some dubious errors (if you want to use that word). For example the section explaining "the system" talks about block changing, something not technically possible with a motorcycle gearbox.


You can pull in the clutch and drop from say 5th down to 2nd without clutch in/out on every gear though...??
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Rob W
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PostPosted: 21:43 - 01 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
J biker wrote:
Bought mine in 2007 to coincide with re learning how to ride (06 R1 rocket ship!).
Cant agree with the summary of it saying 'just slow down'. In fact, its all about road position, observation 'correct' speed ..gear etc. A life saver in fact if reading and understanding what its telling you.
Read it, then re evaluate your riding and safety..or lack of. Then read it again.
Even simple things like where you choose to overtake to avoid being T boned are explained. All so bloody obvious, after reading!
Taken on board and properly absorbed it should make you a better, smoother and safer road rider. Probably faster as well but that is not the point.


Have you been in a situation on the road, where you've actually thought 'In the book it says I should do this'?

Or have you just ridden to the conditions/your capabilities?
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Matt B
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 01 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
FriendlyEllis wrote:
You can pull in the clutch and drop from say 5th down to 2nd without clutch in/out on every gear though...??


That's not technically a block change. Car gearbox from 4th straight to 2nd bypassing 3rd is a block change.

On a bike you are still going through each gear. I'm sure it will start a block changing debate, but IMO their terminology is wrong.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 22:59 - 01 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Matt B wrote:
FriendlyEllis wrote:
You can pull in the clutch and drop from say 5th down to 2nd without clutch in/out on every gear though...??


That's not technically a block change. Car gearbox from 4th straight to 2nd bypassing 3rd is a block change.

On a bike you are still going through each gear. I'm sure it will start a block changing debate, but IMO their terminology is wrong.


So if someone said "I was in top then block changed to 2nd for the corner" you wouldent know what they meant? So let "the block change" debate begin. When weve done with that we can move on to the "counter steering" debate as well Smile
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 00:00 - 02 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
On a motorcycle it would be considered a 'short shift' I believe.

Motorcycles tend to have a fair bit more engine braking and I believe it's generally discussed using this more, so may change some things.
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 00:11 - 02 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
My understanding of short shift is to change up gear early......?
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Mr Calendar



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 00:27 - 02 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
jnw010 wrote:
My understanding of short shift is to change up gear early......?

My understanding too. As in short shifting is a good idea when taking a pillion.

As for the block change I think the term is ok for bikes as the meaning is understood. In a car it's easy, on a bike I take it just to mean going through the gears from one to another without disengaging the clutch between. That's effectively what you're doing in a car too.
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 01:09 - 02 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Matt B wrote:
That's not technically a block change.

You're being willfully obtuse. Pretty much everybody knows what they're referring to, which is the purpose of communication.

Motorcycle Roadcraft is mostly common sense, but when it's enumerated fully, there may be some bits that you hadn't got around to applying your common sense to.

I have the IAM book as well, it's much more lightweight and doesn't go nearly as exhaustively.

Take positioning in a corner. On any given summer weekend on the roads of Essex, there are a lot of bikes about - but the road positioning for a good 80% of riders is dreadful. In particular, leaning across the road going around right hand bends. This ought to be common sense - you can see more if you're to the left on a right hander, and your head won't be in the path of a truck or van that shows up around the bend - but why is it so commonly done wrongly then?

Or take overtaking. Do you accelerate and overtake in one move, or do you take up an overtaking position before accelerating? The latter is much safer in the wet or when traction is poor.

And how's observation for overtaking? I've seen some crazy positions taken for overtakes of trucks, whereas it makes a lot more sense to hang much further back, and swap sides of the truck to look down both the nearside and offside depending on which way the road ahead is bending.

How about signs? I used to largely ignore signs and look more at the actual road layout and surface instead, but I pay more attention to them now - specifically, their density. Also, safety features added to the road: traffic islands, metal barriers, road paint. The more of these you see, the more dangerous that bit of road has been in the past - specifically, councils usually only spend the money on such features because of past accidents that have occurred.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 01:19 - 02 Dec 2013    Post subject: Re: mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Reply with quote
BIG ZOOK wrote:
IMO. Thumbs Down don't bother . The whole book can be reduced to a few words "Basically ,slow down and watch where you are going ".Sorry but that`s my take on it.


So you just got on a motorbike and were instantly competent?

Some folk aren't gods and some folk just want to read the facking book man.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 01:31 - 02 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Matt B wrote:
FriendlyEllis wrote:
You can pull in the clutch and drop from say 5th down to 2nd without clutch in/out on every gear though...??


That's not technically a block change. Car gearbox from 4th straight to 2nd bypassing 3rd is a block change.

On a bike you are still going through each gear. I'm sure it will start a block changing debate, but IMO their terminology is wrong.


I block change aaaaaallllll the time on the bike/s.

You do not need to engage each gear you do not intend to engage. You slip the clutch and click up or down.

Big bikes have way too much power available to need all the ratios on level low speed roads.
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