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| Robster |
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Robster
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| P.addy |
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P.addy
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 Posted: 17:07 - 16 Dec 2013  Post subject: Re: Want to do CBT soon, after a biggish 125 for practice |
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| RoboRider wrote: | Looking at an SV650 eventually for my first big bike as I love the sound of V Twins. |
Then skip the SV, its a tractor based noise, rather than a V twin noise. 
Makes a decent starter bike though.
| Quote: | So between the Comet and Varadero which would you guys go for? |
Varadero. Had both those bikes, would take the Varadero all day, every day. Only just got rid of mine, 2007 FI model on 77,000 miles. Bomb proof, Hyosung however, you are talking just better than chinese, flaky spares availability and dubious quality.
| Quote: | Or should I skip buying a 125 and go straight for the bigger bike when i'm doing my DAS? |
You can do this, up to you if you fancy getting some real road action on 2 wheels then a 125 is probably a decent way to earn some brownie points before stepping up to a 290mph lamp post seeker. |
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Robster
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| Matt B |
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Matt B
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P.addy
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Robster
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| Posted: 17:52 - 16 Dec 2013 Post subject: |
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Well I saw on t'other thread here regarding Varadero's, that chappy found a few on Ebay around the grand mark, but typically i've seen em around the £1800 mark or higher and they seem to hold their value.
I hate the look of Honda CGs and the likes, and not a massive sports-bike fan either, prefer chunky looking nakeds and roadsters or big adventure bikes so thats why the Varadero appeals.
Wouldn't it be unwise to go straight through DAS and get onto a bigger machine? i've been advised to spend a couple of months on a 125 by a good friend who did his DAS a couple of years ago, guess it would depend how I feel on two wheels?
I've been driving for around 14 years, driven through France three times, used to work as a delivery driver, plenty of car crashes/accidents, but fastest i've ever been on a bike was 40mph downhill on a mountain bike, which was shit scary at the time (brakes didn't work...) |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 17:57 - 16 Dec 2013 Post subject: |
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The newer Hyosungs might be better, but the 2006 that I worked on was rusted out, seized up, and the parts were a sod to get: breakers or direct from Korea. The sole UK importer has also dropped them, so expect that situation to get worse rather than better.
Nice try, but they were never cheap enough or good enough.
| RoboRider wrote: | Wouldn't it be unwise to go straight through DAS and get onto a bigger machine? |
Wouldn't it be unwise to wobble around on a 125, untrained and with L plates causing you to be tailgated and cut up everywhere?
With the law as it is, I'd now recommend doing the training and tests first, and then deciding what to get. There's no law saying that you can't ride a 125 on a full license if you want: I kept mine for a few years, and Paddy's on a Varadero just now.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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P.addy
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| Posted: 17:59 - 16 Dec 2013 Post subject: |
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I went 125 > 500 for a few months back to a 125 for the next 9 or so, jumped on a 600cc sports and 2 weeks later a litre sports.
Not dead. All you need to do is realise you control the bike, not the other way 
As Borg says, I have (had now...  ) a 125 Vara and used that as my daily bike despite having a CBR600RR, R1, TL1000S etc etc Just something about that little bike  |
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Matt B
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Robster
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| gbrand42 |
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gbrand42
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| Posted: 20:55 - 16 Dec 2013 Post subject: |
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Just to add - I've had my Varadero since July, getting some miles under my belt, and planning on doing DAS in the spring. I will probably get something around 600-800cc after the test but will probably hang onto the varadero for shits and giggles and to ride through the winter. It's a great choice if you go down the 125 route.
____________________
Yamaha RD50M, Honda C90, Yamaha RS100, Yamaha RD125LC, Honda XL125 V9 Varadero, Honda NT700VA, Honda VFR800X, Honda CRF1000L, Honda ST1300 Pan European |
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Doomsnite
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conker
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Robster
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 12:08 - 17 Dec 2013 Post subject: |
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| RoboRider wrote: | Wonder if I should just skip buying a 125 and go straight for the full-fat 650... I guess i'll see how my CBT goes and how terrified I am of going 30mph on two wheels. |
Good plan.
They're both viable routes, and it's a valid point that buying a 125 is a cheap(ish) way of finding out whether you want to stick with biking and invest in training and tests.
One thing to bear in mind: bigger bikes are easier to ride. You won't believe that until you try it though. 
| RoboRider wrote: | Do they need to be booked way in advance? are there limitations on days you can do it? or does it depend on the test centre? |
If you're planning to go via a taught course at a training school then they'll book the tests.
You can get your theory test out of the way early though, and the training school will want you to have passed that before they allocate a practical test slot.
Aside, you can do full A on your own bike, and you can even do it legally, although not easily.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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Posted: 15:54 - 17 Dec 2013  Post subject: |
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| Matt B wrote: | DAS is designed to take a complete novice (never ridden) right through to a full licence. |
Now Now Matt... DAS is three provisions of the Learner Riders Legislation.
1/ A rider over the age of 24 may, under supervision of approved riding instructor, ride a machine larger than 125cc and more powerful than 14.5bhp, on L-Plates, on provisional entitlement, prior to passing full motorcycle tests, 'for the purpose of training'.
2/ A rider over the age of 24, may, take both practical parts of the full motorcycle licence tests on a machine, meeting the DAS requirements... over 595 is it? ACTUALLY isn't it die to change at the end of the month?
3/ IF a rider over 24 passes both tests on a DAS eligible motorcycle, they will be awarded a full unrestricted A-Catagory 'ride what you like' licence entitlement.
THAT, Ias I am biased to point out is all that DAS is, as I dont like DAS very much... far too perverted to pander to the impatient.... AND now so synonemouse with DAS COURSES, few bother to make any distinction.
And it IS worth making the distinction, because you were talking DAS course, and more specifically the DAS course YOU offer, Matt...
Because DAS courses, unlike the CBT course, for which there is a DSA set syllabus, script and standardised itinary for, that all CBT instructors should abide by, at peril of loosing thier approval to offer the course...
NO SUCH STANDARD EXISTS FOR DAS COURSES.
It is up to the instructor to give what training they THINK the student needs, how they think best, to get that rider up to test standard and through tests.
And, sorry, but an awful lot do it by total-emersion-learning. A week away from the real world, doing nothing but 'think-bike', cramming learning that helps you pass test... which may or may not be everything you need to actually be a safe rider, and you may or may not remember much or any of, when you return to the real world.
Yes, gets rider a licence.... whether it makes them any safer a rider is very much in question!
As for Value For Money... well that's another matter.
When you could test for a restricted A on a 125, it was mutable; and an awful lot of the money you spent on a DAS course was purely for expedience, so you didn't have to 'suffer' a couple of years on a restricted licence... Now, under post 3rd Directive rules we have, its almost obligatory, and if you want a full unrestricted ride what you like licence, you can ONLY get it under DAS rules....
Note though you STILL dont HAVE to do a DAS course! Provision is there, that you may turn up and test on a DAS bike, and get the licence; you dont HAVE to use a schools bike... just one that you are insured for! Is usually more convenient to use a school bike, but even then, doesn not mean you have to do a DAS course, less that that course has to be a three, four or five day, total immersion learning 'crash-course'.
People who learn to drive cars, dont take a week off work to go do a course? Why do we expect to have to do that to learn to ride a motorbike?
Because its a convenience pandering to the impatient, to whome, motorbiking isn't an every-day thing, but a new hobby, and they expect to learn how do do it the way they learned thier last extreme sport hobby, like Scuba Diving... going on holiday and doing a course!
And its convenient to the schools, too. You don't get rich being a motorbike instructor. Far from it. But DAS is where what money there is in the trade, happens to be.
CBT... DSA demand a student / instructor ratio no higher than four on the play-ground two on the road. If you are a one man band, means you can only take two pupils a day, if you are part of a larger outfit, maybe three per instructor. Each paying what? About £100 give or take the bike hire. After paying the school overheads, £300 ish does not leave a lot to pay an instructor a decent hourly rate for the 8 hours they put into get it. AND they are likely to only be able to offer CBT two days a week, when people have time off work to do an 8 hour course.
DAS? Specifically total-immersion-learning full day DAS courses, fill the appointment book, and keep an instructor working in the week. Two students to an instructor? And how much a course? £200 a day? Its twice the money and half the effort of CBT. CBT you have to impart a heck of a lot of know-how in a very short amount of time. DAS? Well BIG chunk of the time, Instructor is doing little more than full-fill provision 1/ of DAS rules, merely being there to watch the student wobble, while they practice.
NOT having a pop at DAS instructors for thier enthusiasm, BUT they do have thier own motives for promoting DAS courses, and particularly total immersion learning DAS coruses.
TIME ON A TIDDLER 
You knew I'd get there, didn't you Matt
Follow conventional one week wonder DAS course, you have to find a chunk load of up-front cash; usually around a grand, and ALL that gets you is around 25-30hours of saddle time, and if you are lucky, the bit of paper that says you can ride any bike, on your own; and chucks you out to THEN find out if biking is really for you, and to start learning by the school of hard knocks.
Remember; its a total-immersion course; and in that surreal enviroment, pandering to your enthusiasm you are FAR more likely to be insulated from a lot of the reality of the business; like going to the Carabean to learn to SCUBA dive, then coming home and finding out that Stoney Stanton's dive lake is rather a lot colder, murkier and doesn't have such colorful fish to look at!
Do your CBT. CBT can be a great starting point, if not rushed, and paid lip service to. Its reletively cheap, its very accessible, and you get a LOT of know-how for your money.
Get a 125... follow conventional advice, and get a fairly decent bike like a YBR, and might be rather expensive for what you get, BUT, its not your once and forever death till you part bike; you use it as intended as learner-commuter, you get your moneys worth from it, and when you are done, you should get a fair chunk of your investment back towards your next bike; and cost of ownership, can be pretty low.
Eg; you buy a YBR for what £1500? Sell it six months later and get back £1300. Add two, three hundred for the insurance, which even if you dont use the full year, because you cant transfer it to a bigger bike its only cost you four five hundred quid, plus pennies in petrol.
NOW to get your licence you still probably need to do a course. BUT, if you have been sensible, you haven't left it so long bad habbits have become ingrained. BUT you will have naturalised your riding, you will have had a chance to make sense and put into practice all the learning you were given on CBT, and you have more than a fair idea what this biking lark is all about AND how to do it.
At that point; come your course, you probably don't NEED five days of training, two and a half of them the instructor fullfilling provision 1. You ought only need two, or three days of training..... That money you spent on owning and using a bike for six months? Well, chances are you'll have saved that back, NOT needing so much expensive DAS instruction.
BUT, more important, you know the ropes; what you get taught in your course, IS going to make more sense, and you ought to be able to differentiate how much of it is what gets you through tests, and how much is making you a better, safer rider. So you ought to ACTUALLY get more from your DAS course, having done your time on a tiddler, as well as saved a bit of wonga in the deal.
BUT... you haven't sold the 125 yet, to pay for the course, have you? You have used it to get to and from the school.... will feel small, weedy and wobbly, like climbing onto a push-bike after the DAS bike... and you probably wont be able to wait to get rid... BUT its a bike, and riding home, taking the long way about.... you can get an extra couple of hours of practice in on whatever you were getting vexed by on the course.. and NOT having to pay that fella to watch you wobble.
125's do make a good way into biking. They give you a chance to get out and do, and get experience. They do it cheaply and ecconomically, and without it being too much too fast; they help you learn slowly and make sense of what you learn, while letting you progress at your own rate, without having to chuck so much money upfront, on spec, in the hope it will all work out.
Because bottom line; 125s are STILL propper motorbikes; they are not toys; they are often as fast as anything else in this country is legally allowed to go. They are very ecconomical on fuel. They take cheap tyres that last a lot of miles and can really earn thier keep, as a means of transport... big-bikes? Yeah, fantastic machinary, amazing performance, BUT it costs. And its often very hard to justify the cost of the performance they have in excess of a tiddler for the real 'work' they are doing, if any, along the way.
Enthused by bigger bikes; having experienced bigger bikes, you know why you WANT one... and easy to ridicule the tiddler in comparison... but you only get that comparison if you HAVE done your time on a tiddler.
If its your gut instinct to go 125... I say follow it, its no bad thing, and it doesn't preclude you doing DAS later.... theres NO RUSH.. rushing be fast way to come to grief when it comes to motorbikes.
Take your time, enjoy the journey... every journey; both going from a to b but also the journey of discovery learning to get from a to b. FAR more fun, far more rewarding far more often than rushing everything, and getting to your destination dazed, confused and wondering where you have been and what you think you saw along the way, with little more than a bit of paper as reminder of what you did!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Matt B
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 12 years, 114 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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