Dads '67 Triumph TR6R Trophy, ongoing project.

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

See the first picture, it has been like it for a while! I'm going to check the timing in the next few days.

What are the tolerances for Brake drums?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL8kcOtY4sE&list=UUknRPFX5-bRMoHdUU8gYXaQ

My Method of measuring is a bit Heath Robinson. I'm getting a judder under heavy braking.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

331X2 · Crazy Courier Joined: 10 Jul 2013 Karma :

Do the measurements repeat on the inside of the braking surface (closer to wheel centre)? How much would spoke tension affect runout?

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

Sorry I don't really understand the question that is the inside of the braking surface :-S
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

331X2 · Crazy Courier Joined: 10 Jul 2013 Karma :

Yeah, I wrote that like a bit of a spastic, sorry.

As the wheel is set up in the video, can the DTI be moved downwards to take a reading closer to the bottom (as it is in the video)? Imagine you are measuring the runout at the top of a cylinder standing vertically, now measure the bottom, ie the other edge.

I think I might draw a picture...

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

Although it was difficult to see it is actually measuring it fairly centrally. I'll have a go at measuring the top and bottom.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

331X2 · Crazy Courier Joined: 10 Jul 2013 Karma :

OK, imagine (again) that the aerosol lid represents the drum, you are currently measuring the runout of the drum here;

https://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv258/L339EFX/IMG_20141030_111945.jpg

Now what happens if you take a reading here?;

https://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv258/L339EFX/IMG_20141030_111956.jpg

Is there less runout or the same?

Edit: Seems my illustrations weren't necessary Laughing

Pete. · Super Spammer Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :

Showing about 3 thou oval on that dial, but the angle it's working at means it's probably more like 2 thou.
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

Triton Thrasher · Could Be A Chat Bot Joined: 16 Oct 2012 Karma :

Best to put the whole wheel in a lathe to skim the drum.

Otherwise the spokes pull the drum out of true again when you lace the wheel.
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Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Pete. · Super Spammer Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :

Triton Thrasher · Could Be A Chat Bot Joined: 16 Oct 2012 Karma :

Pete. · Super Spammer Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :

mysterious_rider · World Chat Champion Joined: 11 Sep 2010 Karma :

to skim the drum just use an air die grinder. Will do it in seconds.

Very cool bike, enjoyed this thread.
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KAWASAKIIIII

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

Drum skimming not required Rolling Eyes

I put the front wheel back together after measuring, because we were due to sort the timing out, however the strobe gun I borrowed was playing up and wouldn't flash when it was reved Rolling Eyes

Anyway long story short adjusted the timing a little bit before the bike packed up and it is more powerful low down now. Need to get it done properly with a better gun.

On the test ride I noticed all the juddering had gone Embarassed

somehow something I had done when putting it together was causing it. Can't work out what though so will have to look later. It has a fair bit of oiling coming out of the rocker cover how so new gaskets will be needed!
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

Slight update, dad loves the bike and has put a good few miles under his belt on it even in the shitty weather. Then the day before Xmas eve, the rear brake lever detached itself as he was coming up to a junction and there was a touching cloth moment.

https://www.bikechatforums.com/download.php?id=94321

The lever should have a square to locate a cam arm and as I mentioned earlier in thread the square was a bit ropey and loose and this I think helped cause it to sheer.

Anyway we couldn't find one on anywhere to buy online, so the only other choice was to get it repaired. I asked BCF's epically excellent engineering extraordinaire Pete if he would look at it for me. He very kindly offered to sort it. Sorry I didn't get too many photos but the work was blinding. Pete's plan was to turn down an old high tensile bolt from a demolition robot (plus cool points for that), cut a thread, mill in a square, drill out some of the snapped part then weld in the new one.

Turning down the bolt.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/6D68C336-91C5-4503-B612-E3E79A5FB6B6_zpspqtwhcli.jpg

Centering the old pivot in the milling machine.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/4AE816BB-A6F4-488F-AC0A-19DEC0D0F7B7_zpsdy750679.jpg

The finished article...

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/8CE66496-FCB8-4E77-B30A-5196092C4686_zpsk9uy2str.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/7031E38B-705E-49D4-A727-DB3F8DED492C_zps9jklzlia.jpg

It's now 12.9 tensile steel and will probably out last the rest of the bike, it is a lovely tight fit in the arm and should noticeably improve braking I reckon. I wish I had gotten more photos of the piece Pete made up it was really nice Laughing

It took up a large part of Pete's Sunday and I got tea, coffee, biscuits and bacon sarnies! I'm extremely grateful! Binge also stopped by to show off his new lathe it was like a mini BCF meet!
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

Pete. · Super Spammer Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :

Was my pleasure Smile

That setup in the mill might look a right lash-up but with no straight of flat part anywhere on the whole pedal assembly it was what was needed to get the job done.
What was also highlighted was the difference between modern and 1960's materials. The new pivot I made which I milled a square in had to be bashed right through the crooked square hole in the actuator arm, and it cut it square for a nice tight fit. Didn't even roll the edge slightly of the 12.9 bolt material.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

Does anyone know where we can acquire a matching Tacho to this speedo.

There are plenty about but none in this style, with the black finish.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0141_zpse58ca4b1.jpg

I believe it is off a later bike, possibly even a 750.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

Wave2k · G's Stalker Joined: 06 Apr 2004 Karma :

Late to the party as always, but what a magnificent thing you did.

Total legend.
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Ducati 1299 Panigale
2009 Corvette C6 z51
RS125->CBR400->RXS100->GSXR750K2->Ducati749S->CBR600RR5->TL1000R->DRz400->RSVR1000->Honda VTR SP1->CBR400->GSXR1000K6->Honda H100->CBR600RR3->Ducati1299

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

Dad fitted the lever last night after a few coats of hammerite, it is a brilliant fit. 0 movement in any direction other than up and down. I honestly believe it is better now than when it left the factory. Thumbs Up

Huge thanks again to pete again for his efforts

I'll post some more photos once it sees daylight. Dad fitted some new bars that are US spec, they are higher and further back but not outrageously so. They are ideal for dad's dodgy back and my size, besides it is a Canadian import so is more original Wink

There is still a list of things to do but I'm led to believe it isn't a classic bike if you don't have a list of things to do!

In a vague order of priority

New Front brake Cable - never been right the inner is too long
New Choke Cable - it's a bit tight with new bars
Electrical system - Charging is 'iffy' convert to a modern reg/rec
New Tyres - old ones aren't bad but are old and cracks are starting to appear in the sidewalls.
Look at cam cover gasket, slight oil leak - It's a British bike
Repaint - The paint is shitty, it looks alright but really isn't a good job, it has cracks and in places on the oil tank has reacted with the metal, the front mudguard is also a crap reproduction one that will be replaced.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

steveh · World Chat Champion Joined: 24 Aug 2004 Karma :

You can get the tacho's pretty easily for a unit construction, your bike uses a Smiths 4:1 ratio clock (driven clockwise)

You can buy a match pair of pattern ones for about £100, there good quality (ive got them on my TR6R) and then just alter the milage to suit yours.

Original ones aren't impossible to get, but be prepared to hunt around abit.

You can use a 2:1 tacho, and don't use the right angle drive gear, but these were only made for about a year or so, i think it was a 66 model T120 that used this, but id have to check.
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Current : 06 Zx10r, 07 Wr450f SM, 74 850 norton commando, 63 bsa b40, 1962 Triton 650, 67 Triumph Tr6r, 1955 Triton 750, 1978 TY250E.

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

Right the front brake, what a PITA this has been However the light at the end of the tunnel is finally in view.

The more a fiddled with it the more I could see something was wrong.

It started out me believing the brake cable was wrong as after I justed the shoes till they didn't drag I had to wind the cable out to full adjustment AND put a collar round the end of the cable for a bit more pull. It seemed like the cable was wrong.

I asked on another forum and they told me the shoes weren't adjusted correctly. Bollocks I thought I adjusted them perfectly myself, they were 1 click back from dragging. I asked them to elaborate and they showed me this...

https://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss339/BikeVice/Conical-Front-Brake-1971-73_zps5a2ef83f.jpg

A 1972, properly adjusted front brake.

Spot the difference.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/wweffew_zpsd185b5df.jpg

Dads brake.

The arms are pointing in far too much, the adjustment on the cable is taking up far to much of the distance between the shoes and drum.

So I didn't do the adjustment correctly, well thats what I though. So I readjusted the brake, however after winding them back off then winding them back in I still had the same problem.

Thoroughly confused I started looking more at the wheel itself. We have always noticed the wheel was slightly off to the LHS of the bike but we assumed it was either just how they were, or the forks/yokes etc. was slightly bent. As we didn't think it was causing an issue we ignored it. I started checking as best I could if anything was bent but it all seemed fine.

A closer look at the wheel gave us some more clues.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/75665421-BDF3-42E3-B957-ADECD91400AE_zpsvc6tcgpr.jpg

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/59D7E79C-8CF2-46EA-A250-47890C92CC73_zpsqglgbeyd.jpg
The gap here is only at the top and only when the brake is tightened to the fork leg.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/1DCD1AB1-3532-453E-80B0-8A91B7A99FF5_zpsnwgdl36b.jpg

All these photos where taken with the spindle already over to the drum brake side

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/EBC8DCF1-F617-44B5-95DD-43F2EA06BDBA_zpsdymypqhl.jpg

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/69FE3A72-7D84-4885-9D83-916F716D8140_zps7qrf4bgp.jpg

Having the Spindle in the middle caused the brake to be away from the fork leg, meaning tighten the brake pulled it off center. Pushing the spindle as far over the the right as possible made it better but clearly wasn't right.

This meant as far as I could see it the wheel needed to be 1/4 over to the right on the axle.

This was confirmed on the forum as someone pointed out there was a lot more thread showing on the axle than should be. A closer inspection revealed the nut that holds the brake plate on wasn't tightening against the plate but tightening against the end of the thread. The plate was actually slightly loose when tightened again, not knowing these bikes this is something I wouldn't have realised was an issue.

Then someone made this point...

Triumph Manual

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/3_zpsc83e14f6.png
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/1_zps6fb44d80.png

BSA Manual

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Capture_zpsa8933b77.png
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/2_zps190b8a6e.png

Yep Triumph fucked up the manual 50 something years ago. Whoever last built this hub we believe either didn't put the spacer, sorry "Distance Piece" in OR put it in the wrong side. Can't really blame them looking at the triumph manual

The width of this piece? 3/16" so the wheel doesn't need to move over 1/4" it needs to move over 3/16" Laughing

What was happening was I adjusted the shoes till they weren't dragging, but as the wheel was it pulling the brake off kilter this meant the shoes were hitting it at an angle making it drag a lot sooner than it engages. I was adjusting the shoes then adjusting the cable and treating it as 2 unrelated adjustments I was only checking rub when doing the shoes then adjusting the cable for a strong feel so it was rubbing all the time. Embarassed

I think think the Judder was because when I put the bike together that time I tightened the spindle before the brake.

Anyway we are just waiting for a tool to remove the axle to turn up so we can confirm this is the issue then it should resolve all the problems we had.

I'm so looking forward to getting this correct. It feels like Christmas. Laughing

____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

B, E, A, U-tifull

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/8F3F4EB9-755B-4402-A759-C57B9FE511E8_zps3zkaawsk.jpg

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/974052A2-195A-457E-9F8F-D4C87842B2E9_zpslbheu3ip.jpg

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/75824C4F-103F-417C-A278-BF231554F8E6_zpsboy3vzk1.jpg

The spacer was on the wrong side. Put it together correctly and strangely it all went together fine Laughing

God knows how long it has been wrong. at least since he bought it.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

Little bit more work has been done. Really do want to apologise about the picture situation, I start with the best of intentions of documenting everything but I take a few shots then forget when I get stuck into the job.

Noticed one of the forks seals had been gone so replaced them on Monday, however made a rookie mistake!

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/DSCF7820_zpsoocbse0g.jpg

I took the left (non leaking) leg out stripped the fork and rebuilt it other than a little bit of a struggle getting the old seal out it was a piece of cake. I then did the right leg, as you can see I only use precision tools on this bike. https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/DSCF7821_zpsxcje0vtn.jpg

Fork in bits.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/DSCF7823_zpsjij2ib6a.jpg
Having them both rebuilt I thought I'd clean the upper stantions before putting it back together, which at this point had remained covered by the gaitors. I remove the gaiter on the Left leg gave it a bit of a clean up, I noticed the chrome wasn't great and was lifting slightly ( think thats what it's called when it is still shiny but a different shiney) then bolted the leg back in. I then took the right leg out. I noticed there was a lot of orange muck I started cleaning and then realised it was fairly severe rust. Bummer.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/5BEA0A12-4159-4C0D-90EB-A077AD89D577_zpsenm97sub.jpg

Thats why the fork seal had blown Rolling Eyes

Rookie mistake not to check first. It was clear this rust had shredded the seal. I spoke with dad and we decided to put it back together as was. I cleaned the stantion fairly well using a scotch pad. This took the edges of the rust and didn't feel that bad. I took it for a test run and it didn't instantly blow the seal. Worst case scenario it blows and we've lost a £6.50 worth of seals and same again in oil. I'm under no illusions it will last, it's just another job for another day.
A pair of Stantions is £55! Fuck knows how they are so cheap!
https://www.thunderbirdspares.com/fork-stanchions-pair-triumphbsa-conical-hub--71-72-327-p.asp

Anyway while I have been doing more mechanical stuff, dad painted the Mudguard. Not a great job just a short term thing before he paints the lot. The paint applied to the the mudguard (like the rest of it) was crap on top of that the Zenner Diode had cracked the paint at some point previously when the forks had little oil in them. For him it was a quick job with alloy wheel paint but still I think it looks pretty good.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/B691DF40-3343-48C9-A36C-06DEB88883AD_zpstr3usrbx.jpg

His next cosmetic task is the Shocks. They aren't bad but a couple hours and a tin of hammerite will make them look much better.

Also next on the agenda is converting the electrics to a modern reg/rec type set up and getting the correct choke cable.

I'll put pics of the crappy stantions up later. Thumbs Up

Edit:- I meant to say, on the test run it was the first time I had used the bike with the wheel in the right place and Pete's repaired brake lever. The front brake was so much better, it was a revelation, it can only get better to has I imagine the pads have to bed in again. The rear brake is much improved with the fixed brake lever although not in power but definitely in feel the old brake felt so spungey because of all the movement in the mechanism.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

Little more on this,

Pete. has been a great help with various bits we have been chasing an oil leak for a while and pete helped repair the cam cover as the studs were glued in and it wasn't flat. With this fixed it started leaking oil from the rocker oil feed, long story short I hadn't done the bolts up tight enough there is no torque information in the manual and petrified of stripping threads or cracking the casing I didn't want to go too crazy with it. Asking on the triumph forum lead to being told they are 20lbft which is much less that I was doing. It seems excessively tight, however now there is ANOTHER leak from the other side of the engine somewhere.

Dad has done a fair chunk of miles on this bike since it was recommissioned. I'm not sure exactly how many but a few thousand. I've always felt it hasn't been running right, but without ever riding another it's hard to tell. We have checked the timing numerous times and it was bang on. It seemed to pink often and was a right pain.

Anyway saturday I arranged to meet Pete and the bike is running shite, coming over the Dartford bridge it was struggling to do 40 without pinking. On the flat it would hit about 50 It was really worried it was on it's last legs. When I arrived at the Pub I looked and there was oil EVERYWHERE. I was thinking the leak from the oils had starved the rockers or it had ran out of oil and it was gonna be fooked. Luckily when I checked it had /only/ lost 1/4 of a pint. Pete let me in his workshop and we annealed the washers came back and fitted them. On the way home the bike seemed to leak less and run better, untill it warmed up a bit then was back to being shit again.

Pete. had mentioned the valves, so I checked them 1 was correct, the others were as tight as they could be. Rolling Eyes

Not sure why this would be the case they were set when the bike was recommissioned and the service intervals says every 6k miles for valves. I believe this is a symptom of a leaded being used with leaded fuel, however we do have a receipt for unleaded head work. Anything else that could cause it?

Anyway with the valves set it runs so much better (funny that), I went out with my missus on the back. Bearing in mind the previous day it barely got me up a fairly shallow hill without pinking this time it pulled strongly with the pair of us on it, from like 2k rpm. Very Happy

Still it seems everytime we fix an issue another appears...

Fix one leak and we get another and now I think the petrol tank is leaking from where it bolts into the frame. Rolling Eyes

It's only weeping be still enough to be a pain. Any bodges (alredite/chemical metal) worth doing or should be go straight for welding?

In other news I found a matching rev counter and have fitted that.

Also she won a prize!

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11953093_10153536563558476_3490484273779273858_n.jpg?oh=c10e43a40ed45e6ef73ea5a333eb2a96&oe=563F6881
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11899991_10153536563473476_8619772761162583905_n.jpg?oh=843a05d9e37e60587074bd5c6b5eb3e2&oe=5636316D

Laughing

Ok there wasn't a great deal of competition but still, A PRIZE! I think all the old boys just got nostalgic when I pulled up and the first thing I started doing was trying to stop an oil leak.

Next jobs chase the new oil leak(s) and sort the electrics, so you can use the lights for more than a mile...

Will get some better pictures when the weather is nicer.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.