Who's a greenie then?

[Polarbear]

I was watching a programme (countryfile) that boiled my piss about how much the national grid was paying wind electricity suppliers to turn them off when they didn't need the elctricity. https://www.countryfile.com/news/debate-over-wind-turbines

It got me thinking about whether I was green or not.

Tree Hugger
Love nature and the countryside.
Hate seeing rabbit hutch house building on green field sites.
I have a solar panel on my boat.
Prefer animals to most humans, (especially self rightious do gooders, religious wankers and politically correct twats)

Lumberjack
Love motorbikes, cars, boats - all the boys toys
Hate wind turbines (and that was before I read above article)
Always been a firm believer that nuclear energy is the only sustainable power source for the world
Work for an oil major
Hate cyclists
Find this carbon allocation/swap system a total joke
Can't see the point of UK paying a fortune to reduce it's emmissions when everyone else pays lip service to it.

I don't think I'm very green

So who is pro renewables, think they are the way forward
and nessecary for the continuation of the planet or are they just an expensive sop to show we are 'doing our bit' for the envoironment?
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Victory Cross Country American tractor.

[Lord Percy]

Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air

Website looks amateur but this book was written by the Regius professor of engineering at Cambridge university. (Dunno what a 'regius professor' is, but he is one..!)

It's a really, really, really good book, and you can download it from that link I've just given.

He explains exactly how the UK would need to change if we were to shift over to 100% renewables.

He takes a very neutral approach but the answer at the end is clear:

Either we all drastically reduce our energy consumption so that renewable sources can provide. AND accept that every field, mountain, lake, river, tidal stream, etc, will need to be utilised for wind/water/tidal/thermal/solar power generation.

Or we finally embrace nuclear.

[Lord Percy]

A few nifty facts from the book:

To power the UK with solar panels, we'd need a solar panel field the size of Wales. And it would need to be in the Sahara desert.

Even though we're an island nation, tidal power isn't enough because we can only harness the western side as that's where the mega waves come in from the Atlantic (most of which are blocked by Ireland anyway).

Wind power would do a fair job but it we would need the entire country to be blanketed in the things.

The amount of CO2 released per person, per year, through burning of fossil fuels for energy, is about 70 tons. Year on year, per person.

Nuclear power... the amount of energy used per person, per year, would use a pellet of nuclear fuel small enough to fit in your pocket.

The annual nuclear fuel consumption of the entire country would take up about as much space as a household living room or two. I think it's something like 13 tons of nuclear fuel, for whole country, each year. And only a fraction of that comes out as 'bad waste'.


Conclusion: Personally I'm nuclear all the way. Radioactive waste is a minor and hugely over-hyped threat compared to current pollution caused by burning of coal and gas.

It's the only realistic solution anyway, if you ask me.

EDIT: Although I'm not saying renewable sources are pointless. Actually renewable power is fantastic. But to keep going at current consumption levels, we're gonna have to use nuclear too.

[Tamsin]

Solar panels are not environmentally friendly..... they use significantly more resources in their production than they ever generate back...

There is talk of new generations of panels being fr better on that front however..

[Rogerborg]

[Lord Percy]

[Lord Percy]

[dydey90]

We need to take the French and German approach. Lots of nukes while we build renewables. Although when Fukushima happened Germany dropped nukes like hot shit, must be scared of tsunamis.

We're getting there, slowly. Personally, I think the way forward is a solar furnace used to superheat air which is then piped into the power turbine section of a gas turbine, thus expanding, driving the turbine and generating highly efficient electricity.

Look on gridwatch.templar.co.uk for the current grid state, today we're drawing 46GW, which is about the maximum. 15GW is coal, 18GW is gas. If you assume a modern nuke generates 2GW per reactor then we could replace that with seventeen new stations completely. In practice, ten would probably do since there's next to no wind today and many of the gas sites are actually highly efficient and greenpeace approved. Probably couldn't shut a lot until the end of their contracts as some supply steam heating to industry, hospitals and housing.
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This post is probably not serious and shouldn't be taken literally.
Past: CBR125,ER6f NINJA 650, ZZR600 Current: VFR750

[Rogerborg]

[Lord Percy]

[Robster]

We just need a Nibbler or two

https://theinfosphere.org/images/thumb/a/af/Dark_Matter.jpg/225px-Dark_Matter.jpg

In all seriousness, I think Nuclear is the way to go, if only we could find a better/different way of harnessing, creating the energy without generating the waste material.

The way we use fossil fuels is still incredibly inefficient, a lot of the energy inside a piece of coal, or petrol is wasted - burning it is the most basic way of releasing energy; if there was a way of extracting the rest of the energy stored within the fuel we use.

I'm all for going green if its sustainable, big lover of outdoors, rubbish on walks up in the lakes pisses me off to no end, hate being wasteful.
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Up the bum no babies.

[Itchy]

Don't worry China will solve it. I'm serious as China in 2009 was estimated to hit peak coal in 2025 that was at 2009 consumption.

As a result they are ploughing massive amounts of money into thorium reactors. Two prototypes have been developed and are going into the test stage in May later this year.

They hope to scale them up if the prototypes perform and build a second bigger prototype and get a commercial version running by 2027.
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[Polarbear]

[Rogerborg]

[ScaredyCat]

[Polarbear]

[oldpink]

hydrogen fuel cells are the way forward
no nasty emissions, we just have to figure out hydrogen extraction & storage

cold fusion is another option if we can get it to work
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I have become comfortably numb

Theory & hazard 24-may 2016, CBT 8th June 2016, MOD 1 2nd Aug 2016 Mod 2 2nd-Nov 2016 - Current bike CBR 600 RR

[Lord Percy]

[Ste]

The usefulness of renewable energy sources will increase as grid storage improves.

https://www.technologyreview.com/news/534266/hawaiis-solar-push-strains-the-grid/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_energy_storage

As clean as nuclear is, the freeness of solar power will always be cleaner.

[Rogerborg]

[orac]

we need fusion - oh hang on we have no idea how to convert that massive amount of energy into something we can use.

the problem that was have to solve isn't the energy itself, there is plenty of that around its how we convert that energy into what we use. just think if we could convert at 100% efficiency the potential (as in the energy of an object at a height) energy of the average hydro plant we would be much better off already.

energy conversion is were the problem is, not how the energy is made.
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Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

[ScaredyCat]

[oldpink]

[orac]

if H cells produce such large amount of power, why not use some of the that power to separate the H from the O2 - seems like a sensible idea. although water splitting isn't that efficient at the minute there is no reason why it cant be done even with current tech.

also some of the water could be put into the drinking supply as it would be about the cleanest and purest water you are likely to come across.
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Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

[The999Kid]