Dumb Question: Flip the Wheel Over (CB125)

[venari]

OK, crisis here:
Pitted fork stantions and a damage lower. Both rendering the forks a failure at MOT.

I can't find a direct replacement station or lower anywhere.

Rechroming would cost roughly £70 per stantion but it wouldn't fix the problem of the damaged lower.

The Solution (?)
The CB125T has the same size stantions (31mm) and a similar fork length. AND I can readily find replacements for it. BUT the lowers are a mirror image of those on my bike. This means the mounting point for the caliper is on the wrong side:

My bike (CB125RS)
https://www.patternparts.net/Upload/Models/16531-honda_cb125_rs.jpg

Other bike (CB125T)
https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery%20B/Honda%20CB%20125T%2091.jpg

Dumb Question
Can I flip the front wheel over and just mount my caliper to the mounting points on the fork lowers?

[P.addy]

Pics of damage. Just cover in gaffer for MOT.

Fit fork gaiters for MOT. Fix at your own leisure.

[Ste]

https://s178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_001_Head-Stock/imag0832.jpg

First of all, the front wheel and mudguard need to be removed. If you are ONLY doing the forks, you don't have to take everything off the front end, but you will need to completely remove the fork legs, so when the wheel comes out, the brake calliper will have to come off, as will the speeds-drive. If the brake isn't to be touched, you don't have to take it off the hose, but it is good practice NOT to leave it swinging on the brake pipe, and support it on some wire or string or something from the bottom yoke!

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0836.jpg

Before removing the fork from the yokes, its best to undo the fork cap, because while its clamped in the yoke, the stanchion cant twist.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0873.jpg

The clamps on the fork yoke can then be undone and the forks slid out and off the bike. You can remove and store the fork caps and springs if you like, but as Snowie models for us, this is the basic starting point!

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0874.jpg

The oil, (if there is any left in the fork) can be poured out into a suitable receptacle, and then you can start dismantling the fork. The two halves of the fork, the chrome stanchion and the lower leg or slider are normally only held together by one bolt known as the 'Damper-Bolt' as it holds the damper plunger in the stanchion to the slider. Its usually a cap-head allen bolt, cunningly hidden in a recess in the bottom of the fork slider, often underneath the axle clamp. A long allen-key or allen socket is normally needed to reach it.

As Snowie shows, you can often get enough 'reach' by turning a regular allen-key around and using the long end to get at the bolt, but it can be a bit tight to then turn, so a little added leverage might need to be applied. The bolt should NOT be too tight though, so be careful, you don't want to round out the bolt head! Worth poking it out a bit with something long and pointy to make sure you can get the allen-key all the way into the head, and then to 'tap' the allen key into the bolt head to make sure it is well engaged.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0875.jpg

With the Damper bolt undone, the fork slider should slide straight off the stanchion.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0884.jpg

Remove the damper bolt from the end of the slider, and you can screw it back into the bottom of the damper rod cap, to give you something to grip, and allow you to pull the damper rod out of the bottom of the stanchion, so you can remove the damper rod 'stop' or spacer.... the aluminium bit on the end!

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0885.jpg

Thats the one! Damper rod can then be pushed through and dropped out of the top of the stanchion.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0886.jpg

If the damper rod doesn't drop out under its own weight, or with the encouragement of a light tap, it can, as Snowie shows, be pushed out with a length of rod. These bits can now all be cleaned and inspected, or set aside, while you strip the seals out of the fork slider.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0876.jpg

On the top of the slider is the 'dust seal'. This should just lever out with a suitable lever, like the tyre iron shown here. I WONT say it can be done with an old screw-driver. Such abuses of the humble screw-driver are an insult to my engineering sensibilities, and the pointy end can easily scratch or damage the soft aluminium! It should NOT be done!

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0877.jpg

Beneath the upper dust seal, is the clip that secures the main fork-seal in place. Designs vary and many forks have proper circlips in this location that need proper circlip pliers to remove. Some have simple C-Clips that are a right pain and demand a lot of swearing and something pointy to dig out. The Honda CB125TD has a C-Clip, but one considerately endowed with two recesses to make it easier to get something in to pop it out. Proper circlip pliers would have been a good idea..... Here Snowie uses.... I cant bear it! a SCREWDRIVER! Its NOT good mechanics you know?!

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0878.jpg

Circlip removed, the main seal can be prised out. Here Snowie uses a tyre iron. NOT a SCREWDRIVER! The seals CAN be rather stiff to get out, and the trick if working with a lever is to try and get it to come out as square and level as possible, working around the seal prising it up just a little at a time. There are special seal removal tools available, but they are not always that reliable. some forks don't have enough recess behind the seal to be able to grip it and some seal removal tools just cant apply enough force to get the seals out. The humble and old fashioned lever (or I suppose if you HAVE to be a heathen, the 'old screwdriver'!) used with care, so you don't ding, scratch or damage the fork slider, and worked gently around to bring the seal out square, is about 99% reliable, to get most seals out.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0882.jpg

See, even a weedy grirlie can manage it!

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0883.jpg

So, seal removed, you can see the slider bush beneath.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0887.jpg

The entire fork leg disassembled, you simply repeat the process on the other leg, then you can clean and inspect all the bits before trying to put them back together.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0928.jpg

If you want to paint or polish the sliders, this is where you take the opportunity. If painting though, be sure to mask off the inside so no paint gets onto the slider bush or seal seats, or where it could interfere with the operation of the damper mechanism.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0872.jpg

After cleaning, the stanchion, will need to be polished. If it is 'slightly' rusted or pitted, this NEED NOT make the stanchion scrap.

The main function of the chrome on the fork stanchion is to give a smooth low friction surface for the slider bush and fork seal to run on. As long as the stanchion isn't significantly worn, and there are not major dents or scores or other surface irregularities, a small amount of 'pitting' can be tolerated.

It IS technically an MOT failure though, because by strict interpretation of the MOT rules, it is a suspension defect. However, the 'defect' is essentially that the rougher than normal surface will make the fork seals wear more rapidly than they would normally. Provided the surface is smooth enough that the fork seal WILL seal, and doesn't allow fluid out so that damping is impaired, it should not effect the operation of the fork. AND if a fork gaiter is fitted between the fork slider and the fork yoke, covering the swept area of the stanchion, an MOT inspector cannot 'see' the pitting, and is not allowed to remove the gaiter to inspect, and cannot therefore fail the fork on this criteria.

YES, it is a 'dodge'. But a legitimate one. And provided you know what you are about, and have prepared the stanchion as well as you can, removing as much rust as possible without damaging the remaining chrome, and haven't actually got huge areas of exposed metal or jagged edges of flaky chrome, there shouldn't be any major reason that the fork should give any major problem.

BUT, you DO need to remember its not a 100% fix and forget cure. The seals WILL wear out more rapidly than if they were running on a good chrome stanchion. Consequently IF you do use this 'gaiter-dodge', I advise that you periodically lift the gaiter to check the stanchion condition, to make sure it hasn't deteriorated, and to check that the seal hasn't started weeping.

I also advice that the seal be replaced at regular intervals on a 'precautionary' basis to avoid actual seal failure. How frequently precautionary replacements ought to be done, I cannot say. Depends on the bike, the way its ridden, where its ridden, and how far its ridden. But as a rough reckoner, once a year, for each MOT is probably a start! On high mile, hard worked bikes, it may be worth doing with every major service, if that's more frequently.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0899.jpg

So, stripped, cleaned, polished, new seals, gaiters & oil procured, forks can be re-assembled

The CB125 has a spacer under the fork seal, above the slider bush, which needs to be fitted, the correct way up, before the fork seal.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0900.jpg

Then the fork seal can be pressed into place, ensuring you have it the right way up, before its tapped into its rebate.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0901.jpg

then driven home, using a suitably sized socket as a dirft, driven with soft hammer.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0904.jpg

With the seal 'home' the retaining circlip can be re fitted. Then the damper mechanism reassembled into the bottom of the fork stancion.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0907.jpg

Dropping the damper tube into the stanchion is the easy bit...

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0908.jpg

Getting it out the bottom can be a bit more tricky! Here I have a length of M8 'unithread' rod (available at most good hardware or DIY stores) which is the same thread as the damper retaining bolt, but a LOT longer...

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0906.jpg

so I can push the damper rod down, then from the other end, fish in and screw into the bottom of the damper rod, and draw it out the bottom, thusly....

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0911-1.jpg

Fitting the aluminium bottom stop, should stop it falling back through, while assembling to the slider.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0912.jpg

Bottom Bolt can then be fitted, remembering copper sealing washer, and tightened to hold everything together, and the damping oil in.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0913.jpg
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0914.jpg

Damping oil can then be measured out, and the fork leg filled with oil.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0915.jpg
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0918.jpg

Fork Spring can then be inserted into the stanchion, and the end cap fitted.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0919.jpg
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0920.jpg

Often its difficult to apply enough preload to the spring, and grip the stanchion to tighten the fork end cap on, and it may be easier to slide the stanchion back onto the fork joke and nip the pinch bolt to hold it steady, or to leave the spring, oil and cap until the fork has been fitted to the yokes.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_002_Fork-Seals/imag0923.jpg

All that remains is to slide gaiter or dust cap over the stanchion and onto the slider, and that's the leg fully rebuilt and ready to fit anyway.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/075_F_001_Head-Stock/imag0924.jpg

Both legs done, gaitered up, and back on the bike, yoke pinch bolts torque up, ready for the front wheel to be refitted.

[Fisty]

T2 motor, as in the early twin-shock twin, is the most powerful production four-stroke 125 EVER... in good nick should chuck out about 16bhp, as much as the same era two-stroke twins, with more revs and more mid-range!

First off make sure you have a genuine T2 motor, not a later, common as muck, 12bhp Super-Dream engine, or worse, even more common 360 crank CD Benley or CM Rebel engine, that makes about 11bhp on single carb.

Good bits in your engine are the cam-shaft which was the wildest honda made, and about the best you cab fit a CB125 Twin; and the 26mm Carburettors.

Make sure that you have them... again, 'Reduced effect' Super-Dream bits fit, to fix up a knacker.

NOW, personally, I'd be inclined with a T2 to keep it stock. It is a classic and it does have that accolade of the most powerful production 125 four-stroke.

And its a pretty nippy little bike, and I'm not too sure I would want to go much quicker than the genuine 18mph it offers with that cantankerouse cable operated front brake! (It was bad enough on a CB100N single I had the displeasure of, many many years ago, even for the time when a lot of new lightweights still came with drums!)

Anyhow...16bhp... there aren't many Benley based motors that make much more power, and it is as much as the CB200 chucked out....

The CB Two-Fifty the bored and stroked 233cc 360 crank version of the Benley motor only knocked out 19bhp, while the most powerful variant was the CMX 250 Rebel, that was another 233cc 360 crank motor, but with twin CV carbs.... that made 21.

So.... it's a bit mutable how far you may take one of these little babies....

If you have the 26mm carbs and the genuine T2 full-power cam, you are off to a good start, and we know that the head and valves are good enough to flow enough for 20ish bhp... so there is scope to find more by boring.

Bug-bear though is that you cannot go over 142cc on the stock liners. You can get a kit to get this far from china for about £90, complete with pistons and rings... not really worth effing about with C70 slugs, when there's already CB125 pattern pistons that size.

Reports, however suggest that the extra 17cc... about 15% make very little noticeable difference to peak power, though.

But there just ins't enough metal in the sleeves in the barel to go much bigger... you could.... but you would be running on the finning ali.

Bigger liners? Barels from one of the bigger bore motors?

OK, well the biggest Benley based engines are 233cc and they get that from a 53x53 bore & stroke. The 200's are the same 53mm bore, but a slightly shorter stroke.

53mm bore on the 41mm CB125 crank-stroke gives 170cc... so you aren't going to get it all the way out to 200cc on stock 'big-bore-benley' barels.

CB200.... conveniently had the same 41mm stroke as the 125... and to get 198cc, used 55.5mm bore.

Bad news is that that is one over-bore BEYOND max over bore on a big-bore benley barel.... AND Big-Bore-Benley barels dont drop straight onto 125 crank cases.... the liners are too large for the cylinder apature.

OK... machine the block to get bigger barels in..... over-bore a big-bore barel......

You now have to find suitable pistons.... you have gone beyond the bore size for any of the standard Benley engines; not that you would want to use any of the big-bore benley slugs anyway, as they are flat-top low compression jobs, and the gudgeon pin diameter is too big to fit the con-rod, but too small to be sleeved in the piston.

So... boring out the 125 engine;

First problem: is the liner size the cases will take.
Second problem: how big you can bore 'big-bore-benley' liners
Third Problem: finding suitable pistons to match con-rods AND liner bore
Forth Problem: Making sure big pistons actually give you more power and dont rob it, having enough compression

Its a big mine-field. I have trodden it very carefully, and my advice is that unless you are pretty nifty at getting stuff machined to suit, and really know what you are about... which if you're asking here you probably ent..... dont bother trying.

142cc big-bore kit is available off the shelf. Dont make much odds, but probably the best you can do reasonably cheaply and easily.

Make sure it is a genuine T2 spec motor, and you do have the full power that spec offers.

Maybe as 'improvements' consider upgrading to 12v electrics using later Benley or Superdream generator & Superdream CDi Ignition.

Definitely consider what might be done to upgrade that cable disc brake.

Otherwise.... just make the thing as tidy and well fettled as you can and enjoy it for what it is.... a classic tiddler.

No matter how much you tune it, its never going to be very fast. Its a 125...

But in that company its one that you ought not ride on L-Plates or A1 licence becouse its already more powerful than legal restrictions or anything you can buy new in the show-room today!
____________________
Quietly and consistently taking the piss.
TL1000R | Hayabusa | ZXR400 | TL1000S | Bandit 400 V
Fatter and faster than Fret

[Nobby the Bastard]

T2 motor, as in the early twin-shock twin, is the most powerful production four-stroke 125 EVER... in good nick should chuck out about 16bhp, as much as the same era two-stroke twins, with more revs and more mid-range!

First off make sure you have a genuine T2 motor, not a later, common as muck, 12bhp Super-Dream engine, or worse, even more common 360 crank CD Benley or CM Rebel engine, that makes about 11bhp on single carb.

Good bits in your engine are the cam-shaft which was the wildest honda made, and about the best you cab fit a CB125 Twin; and the 26mm Carburettors.

Make sure that you have them... again, 'Reduced effect' Super-Dream bits fit, to fix up a knacker.

NOW, personally, I'd be inclined with a T2 to keep it stock. It is a classic and it does have that accolade of the most powerful production 125 four-stroke.

And its a pretty nippy little bike, and I'm not too sure I would want to go much quicker than the genuine 18mph it offers with that cantankerouse cable operated front brake! (It was bad enough on a CB100N single I had the displeasure of, many many years ago, even for the time when a lot of new lightweights still came with drums!)

Anyhow...16bhp... there aren't many Benley based motors that make much more power, and it is as much as the CB200 chucked out....

The CB Two-Fifty the bored and stroked 233cc 360 crank version of the Benley motor only knocked out 19bhp, while the most powerful variant was the CMX 250 Rebel, that was another 233cc 360 crank motor, but with twin CV carbs.... that made 21.

So.... it's a bit mutable how far you may take one of these little babies....

If you have the 26mm carbs and the genuine T2 full-power cam, you are off to a good start, and we know that the head and valves are good enough to flow enough for 20ish bhp... so there is scope to find more by boring.

Bug-bear though is that you cannot go over 142cc on the stock liners. You can get a kit to get this far from china for about £90, complete with pistons and rings... not really worth effing about with C70 slugs, when there's already CB125 pattern pistons that size.

Reports, however suggest that the extra 17cc... about 15% make very little noticeable difference to peak power, though.

But there just ins't enough metal in the sleeves in the barel to go much bigger... you could.... but you would be running on the finning ali.

Bigger liners? Barels from one of the bigger bore motors?

OK, well the biggest Benley based engines are 233cc and they get that from a 53x53 bore & stroke. The 200's are the same 53mm bore, but a slightly shorter stroke.

53mm bore on the 41mm CB125 crank-stroke gives 170cc... so you aren't going to get it all the way out to 200cc on stock 'big-bore-benley' barels.

CB200.... conveniently had the same 41mm stroke as the 125... and to get 198cc, used 55.5mm bore.

Bad news is that that is one over-bore BEYOND max over bore on a big-bore benley barel.... AND Big-Bore-Benley barels dont drop straight onto 125 crank cases.... the liners are too large for the cylinder apature.

OK... machine the block to get bigger barels in..... over-bore a big-bore barel......

You now have to find suitable pistons.... you have gone beyond the bore size for any of the standard Benley engines; not that you would want to use any of the big-bore benley slugs anyway, as they are flat-top low compression jobs, and the gudgeon pin diameter is too big to fit the con-rod, but too small to be sleeved in the piston.

So... boring out the 125 engine;

First problem: is the liner size the cases will take.
Second problem: how big you can bore 'big-bore-benley' liners
Third Problem: finding suitable pistons to match con-rods AND liner bore
Forth Problem: Making sure big pistons actually give you more power and dont rob it, having enough compression

Its a big mine-field. I have trodden it very carefully, and my advice is that unless you are pretty nifty at getting stuff machined to suit, and really know what you are about... which if you're asking here you probably ent..... dont bother trying.

142cc big-bore kit is available off the shelf. Dont make much odds, but probably the best you can do reasonably cheaply and easily.

Make sure it is a genuine T2 spec motor, and you do have the full power that spec offers.

Maybe as 'improvements' consider upgrading to 12v electrics using later Benley or Superdream generator & Superdream CDi Ignition.

Definitely consider what might be done to upgrade that cable disc brake.

Otherwise.... just make the thing as tidy and well fettled as you can and enjoy it for what it is.... a classic tiddler.

No matter how much you tune it, its never going to be very fast. Its a 125...

But in that company its one that you ought not ride on L-Plates or A1 licence becouse its already more powerful than legal restrictions or anything you can buy new in the show-room today!
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[lihp]

Anyway, the very FIRST thing you need to know is that the Honda CB125 Super Dream is a 'Classic', a very useful one, too, and it has an awful lot going for it, that can make it a very discerning choice of bike. BUT, if you just want cheap wheels, or a tool to pass your test on, your probably best to look elsewhere. You need to have a bit of 'enthusiasm' to actually WANT a CB125 Super Dream, and if your going to live with it, you ought to have a good idea of what they are, what their history is, and what makes them worth owning.

Already written an article, Learner Legals & Honda Super-Dreams, to explain why this little 'under-dog' of a bike is a bit 'special' and worthy of attention. But in short, it was in 1982 Hondas premier 'sports' 125 for the new 125 Learner-Legal market. A four-stroke twin cylinder machine, intended to compete head to head on performance against rivals single cylinder two-strokes, when Honda were still ardently committed to the four-stroke engine and campaigning the oval-piston wonders against the two-strokes in 500GP racing.

The legal 12.5bhp 'restriction' helped, the Super-Dream but it still had to be 'de-tuned' from the earlier models 16bhp to meet it, the same as the all new Kawasaki AR125LC and Yamaha RD125LC, and boasted as many technically avant-garde features, so it DID have the performance to match its two-stroke rivals, at least when they were standard and genuinely learner-legal.

Nearly thirty years on, its conservative styling and four-stroke engine mean the bikes now perceived simply as a slightly more sophisticated 'commuter' like The Legendary Honda CG125 that's the bench mark for the class. Testimony to the soundness of the bikes design and engineering, though, it was in production for approximately ten years until 1992, without significant change.

There are few AR's or RD's around any more, most thrashed to death by a succession of kiddie-go-quickly owners and their attempts at servicing and tuning (see 125's - Live Hard), and the few that have survived tend to be either basket cases offered for restoration, or over-priced teenage revival trophies. Its testimony then that the little Super-Dream not only outlived its rivals in the show-room, but also on the streets, where so many are still in use, and as often as every-day working commuter bikes.

As a potential buyer, this does bode well. There should be plenty to choose from, to be able to find a better one. And as I have alluded to elsewhere, this is an 'under-dog' motorcycle, which means generally undervalued, hinting that there should be bargains to be found... or at least better bikes for more realistic prices, as the bike has past the 'test of time' and shown itself basically sound and reliable and well proven.

BUT! It IS still an 'old' bike, and the youngest of them out there will be at least nineteen or twenty years old, with the majority being built between 1982 and 1986, quarter of a century, pushing thirty years. AND while its conservative styling and four-stroke engine have placed it in with the commuter bikes, its 12,000rpm red line certainly does NOT! This IS a 'sports-bike', and it was far more avant-garde when launched than Honda's current 'premier' CBR125, which in many ways is actually a lot more conservative.

Worth noting that many of the features of the modern CBR125 are actually no more 'advanced' than the 125 Super-Dream, particularly the important bits, front and rear suspension, brakes, and tyre sizes.

And while it may boast a water-cooled and fuel injected engine, that is significantly to meet modern emission requirements, not for reliability or performance, and it's rated power out-put is within a gnats, the same as the 'ancient' Super-Dream twin.

Meanwhile, the fashionable beam-style frame and sporty faired styling, offer little functional value to the motorcycle. That frame is designed for least manufacturing cost, not ultimate structural stiffness!

While the aerodynamics of the bodywork offer little practical stream-lining to help the bike go faster! And the small weather protection they might offer has to be balanced by the vulnerability, if the bike gets knocked off the side stand!

Compared to the 'Bench-Mark' Honda CG125, the little Super-Dream is in a completely different league. The CG might have gained electric start and disc-brake in its long and illustrious production history, but it was always a 10bhp 'budget' commuter, built down to a price, most in Brazil. Which is another plus point in the Little Super-Dreams favour, as a premier model, it was always built in Japan. It even says so on the generator cover. Which is a boast I'm not sure even the CBR can make, and even if it can, an awful lot of the 'bits' that have gone into building it will have come from Taiwan or China!

So, the Honda CB125 'Super-Dream' is a well proven, enduring little 'sports-bike' that has stood the test of time against its contemporary rivals, and STILL bears favourable comparison against modern offerings. And it can be viewed as many things, depending on your perspective.

It may merely be perceived as a slightly more sophisticated commuter, an alternative to the CG125. Providing the creature comforts of an electric start and disc brake, only found on the later models, a little more performance, comfort and 'substance' for want of a better way to describe the better finish and feel, without simply saying 'heavy'! (It weighs 125Kg, exactly the same as a CBR125 or YBR125, and a mere 9Kg, more than the CG! That's roughly the difference between a full tank of petrol and being on reserve, yet some people still insist THAT is a big deal! Usually older ones that remember it being a little heavier than an RD or AR)

Or it can be viewed as as a traditionally styled and budget-priced 'sports' Learner bike, a cheap alternative to the CBR125, or as likely the Chinese or Korean copies. But it SHOULD be perceived as a 'classic', and a very useful and practical one, that can still earn its keep as an every day bike, against the teen-age revival bikes, like the RD-LC or AR125 and such.

Its worth mention that a lot of owners reports of the Honda CBR suggest that its no where near as exiting as its avant-garde styling suggest it should be, and its actually a rather uninspiring ride, a commuter in sports bike cloths. The 'old' Super-Dream could probably stand the opposite allegation. Its a proper sports-bike in commuter cloths!

Ranking the bike against alternatives; nearly every-one I have ever met that has owned or ridden one, has said positive things about it, and they have nearly always been happily surprised by it. The main thing that people will tell you about them is that they were a lot of fun, and surprisingly fast, and comment on the unexpected wail of a little four-stroke screaming its way up to the 12,000 RPM red-line, yet not blowing up or demanding frequent rebuilds like the two-strokes, and starting on the button first of second prod, no matter what, and just 'working'.

A few people have criticises the bikes performance and handling, and I have been dogged by people suffering niggles and hassles, asking advice over worn bores and dodgy electrics, but for the most part, these can be explained by the old age and state of neglect or disrepair of the bikes in question. Good ones are pretty damn good, but its still a learner-legal 125, and an old one likely to have suffered a lot of abuse and neglect in the hands of a succession of newbie riders, and there are plenty of not so good ones out there! I know, all mine started out that way!
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covent.gardens: lihp is my most favourite member ever

[Ste]

TIME ON A TIDDLER IS RARELY WASTED

I always advocate starting out on a 125; the light weight, low powered bike will teach you an awful lot of 'basics' that jumping on a 'big-bike' will skip over. Also means that you can practice to your hearts content, very cheaply.

DAS courses are expensive; £500 - £1000 JUST to learn to ride. And a BIG chunk of that is hiring a DAS bike and paying an instructor to nurse maid you the whole time.

If you go the 125 route; you dont HAVE to test on it; but if you take weekly lessons, you can get the 'learning' you would on a DAS course, just as easily, and practice to your hearts content, not paying the instructor to watch you.

You'll also get a lot of early miles experience, that will give your learning meaning and relevance to help it 'stick'... and possibly prompt questions & lessons you would not get following the script of an intensive DAS course.

ONCE you have got the basics mastered on a tiddler; then, as you are 25, you have the DAS option.

DAS merely lets you take training under supervision on a 'big-bike', and test on a big bike, to get Full licence without restriction straight away. Yo do the same tests on a 125, and you get a full licence for it; only difference is you get a 2-year power probation. When that lapses you have a full, unrestricted licence, you dont have to take any more tests or anything.

So, training up ona tiddler is an ecconomic way about; you get most training for your money, and as much practice as you want or need, AND have the bike available to you the duration it takes to get a licence. While paying just for lessons; if you fail tests or anything, costs wont ramp as much.

So, forget cost of bikes a moment:

An Intensive DAS course, for a complete newbie; you would probably be looking at a five day course with maybe a 70% chance of first time pass. And probably £1000-1200 to get there. That JUST gets you a licence. THEN you have you kit to buy and your bike.

Going 125; you would be looking at perhaps £300-400's worth of training & tests to get restricted licence; if you wanted to do tests under DAS, a couple of conversion lessons and accompanied test lessons to put bike under your bum for the tests; might add £200 more to the bill.

SO: starting on a 125, to get to full licence, probably half the cost; even if you utilise DAS.

So starting costs; £300-£1200 for the licence. BIG variance.

If you go 125 route you'll need a bike, and kit and stuff 'up-front'. But you'd need that after if you went DAS.

125's are 'expensive'; they are little bikes, and you dont get a lot for your money. You get a lot more bike for your money in the 'big-bike' world, but they tend to also come with much higher running costs.

Price ranges dont change much between the two. £500 is entry money, for a ratter that has tax & test, and questionable reliability, likely to be an unreliable money pit. things get a bit better as you move up the market, and at £750-£1000 you can find bikes likely to be a bit more 'useful', but realistically, its around the £1000-£1500 mark that you can start looking at 'Decent' bikes.

In the 125 market, that gets you a very useful Yamaha YBR125 as a 'test-tool', that has great advantage of good resale; so you can buy one; do tests on it, and sell on for within maybe £100 or so of what you paid, and in the six months or year you want it; likely to not give much or any hassle or cost much by way of maintenence or repairs. Cheap to insure and economical too.

Same money buys more posey bikes; whether you want sporty or stylish. Tend to be less bike for your money; and will usually be older or more worn out; and less test freindly, simple rideability compromised for the style or notionally better 'performance'.

In the big bike market; same money offers a LOT more choice; but you really need to be up in the same price bracket to be looking at 'better' bikes that stand chance of being useful. And same sort of rules apply, as to tiddlers.

Twins, tend to be more ecconomical; simpler and cheaper to live with long term; fours offer more performance, but will usually cost more to run, and have more risk they will be more expensive to fix if they go wrong.

So, doing it on the cheap, £1000 is entry money for your bike; £1500 more comfortable for something likely to be a bit more useful.

Kit? Helmet, gloves, water-proofs. Protective gear? I dont reccomend leathers for a newbie; but textiles.

Doing it cannily, you dont have to get everything straight away. You can get away with no more than 'sensible' shoes/boots, crash-hat, gloves and water-proofs with 'layers' of heavy duty out-door clothing under for protection & warmth.

Realistically; Hats start at £30, and go up to silly money. £100 is a 'fair' budget for one. Gloves £10 up, £25 is fair for a reasonable pair. Water-Proofs, £30 up.

You ought to be able to put together a starter outfit for £200. And I striongly urge you to avoid buying a 'My First Motorcycle Outfit' of leather trousers, jacket and boots, all for £200-£250. Spend your money on good textiles for versatility.

SO!

£300 - £1200 for a licence.
£200 ish for starter riding outfit
£1000 - £1500 ish for a bike.
£??? For insurance.

You can get yourself on the road for maybe £1500, at a REAL squeeze on a 125, without a licence. £2K and you could get a licence to go with it, or have a bit better bike, for long term L-Plating....

£2.5K is a reasonably 'comfy' budget to get yourself on the road; basic kit; and legal, on a 125, get you some useful training and a licence, and let you 'swap' 125 for a useful 'big-bike' after tests.

Get a bit carried away? Want ALL the kit, straight off? Want a DAS course straight off the stops? HAVE to have a style bike?

Well, like any interest, will suck whatever finances you let it, really!

Doing it 'comfortably'; training up on a £1250 YBR125; with some sensible kit; giving yourself an easy time; avoiding hassle for ideas of asthetics or over enthusiasm to rush in and have it all now....

£2.5K is a 'good' all in budget, with scope.

[venari]

I've already read all of the above replies on other threads and they seem fairly irrelevant to my predicament!

I've tried the 2k araldite trick but the stations are too pitted.

I can't for the life of me find a replacement set of lowers/sliders.

The slider is damaged at the top from trying to use a screwdriver to remove the dust cap for the millionth time. A bit cracked off meaning I can't seat a new oil seal in there and the missing part is visible even with Gators on.

Can anyone offer a helpful response?

[Jewlio Iglesias]

TL;DR - Neat feet
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21:41:40 petalbriefs: look phil, I dont preach to you about bowling pins or whatever, so you stick to that and I'll stick to cars
21:38:18 Northern Monkey: chav lives in the garage with an almax on it
21:34:54 rhys99: My train got stuck in heavy traffic

[mudcow007]

comedy genius....

[Kickstart]

[P.addy]

What I stated in my first post will get it through an MOT and give you time to source new bits.

[G]

[stinkwheel]

A cross-pattern spoked wheel will work happily either way round. Some discs are directional.

The disc offset, distance between the fork centres and hub width may not be the same on both bikes (or it may be, honda were quite good like that).

I'm not sure you have the same brke calliper either. I looked into replacing the horriffic cable operated calliper on my old CB125T with a hydraulic one off a later model and found it to be very difficult.

I eventually stuck a CG125 drum brake front end in it which was still miles better.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.