Heating/Hot water options in a flat

[LustyLew]

Hi all,

I'm entering into the big bad work of home buying.

I've seen a property and just awaiting confirmation of a viewing. It doesn't seem to have any form of heating visible in any of the rooms. Only a plug in oil radiator.

I read everywhere that electricity is expensive (yup) and to try and go for gas. Not an option.

So I'm canvassing opinions on the electric rads vs storage heater debate. I've had electric radiators before and not had nay real issues. Storage heaters I've only heard bad things about. I was planning on an unvented hot water cylinder so I can run a shower a mains temperature.

So what are peoples opinions?
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[doggone]

You can use the storage heaters as a sort of background heat and it won't cost a fortune to keep it between 10C and 15C say.
When you're actually home you'll sometimes need to boost things up with a small fan heater or something most likely, at least when it's as cold as it is now.

The problem with storage heating is dialling in enough boost for the next day so you need to be on the ball for weather changes.
It's easy to keep inching it up but forget to go back down again when the cold spell is going.
If the supply doesn't have the lower night tariff already, getting that could be useful for doing other stuff on the low rate.
However your daytime rate might be a bit higher.
As usual there is no easy answer.

For simplicity I think the oil filled rad and cheap fan heater option would be best for a small flat.

[Rogerborg]

What kind of property?

Top floor in the middle of a block of flats with an insulated roof cavity, you'll likely be cracking windows in winter.

Ground floor or end of the block is a very different story. You'll be paying to heat your neighbours.
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[c_dug]

Storage heaters are ok if you apply a little thought, there isn't the option to crank it up for immediate heat like you can with various other types of heating. I think lots of the problems that people suffer with are due to not understanding the technology rather than the heating itself being bad.

Does the property have double glazing? That is my biggest bugbear with my current flat, far more annoying than the storage heaters.
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[Itchy]

It might well be oil heating?

I've seen some relatively cheap houses (6 bed room 3000sqft jobbies for £300K). But nobody wants them because of the oil heating.

There is even one about 500m away from a heating oil seller which hasn't sold in years.
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[DrSnoosnoo]

I lived in a flat, bang in the middle of the block. We never had the heating on as everybody else kept us warm. The big wall of window/door onto the balcony was pretty much always open.

We had a mini heater beneath the sink in the kitchen that gave us hot water for the shower and washing up etc.
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[LustyLew]

It's ground floor, but I believe it's garaging below. The floors are pretty naff, so would be replaced pretty quickly. I guess there's the potential for under floor heating that could solve the issue, thought it may be costly and would need a lot of insulation.

Here's the property: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-54482342.html?premiumA=true

Yeah - you get f*ck all in London, you have to live in the sh*t holes.
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[DrDonnyBrago]

Storage heaters aren't so bad if you have a meter/electric plan suitable for cheap overnight electricity rates. It's essentially a metal box full of bricks and a heating element. They heat up overnight when electricity is cheap, stay warm all day with the vents closed, then you open the vents when you get home from work to heat your house.

Bit of a pita if you have a surprise cold day, as you wouldn't have run them the night before. Oil filled radiators can help in that situation, but you'll be on peak energy rates.

[oldpink]

the flat I live in in London has old white meter storage radiators
and a standard boiler for hot water
problem is the storage heaters only work from 6pm - 6am and if I want hot water I need to wait 2 hrs to heat a tank

Gas isn't an option and I'm a top floor middle flat
at some point I want to change to an On Demand water heater as its a PITA to boil kettles to wash dishes etc
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[LustyLew]

It's a bit shit as usually the water pressure is so piss poor that you need an electric everything as vented hot water cylinders wont have the mains pressure.

I'm sure there's a case for building supplied hot water, but I guess if it fails, everyone is f*cked.

I hate electric showers, but they are useful for instant heat, just need to buy a decent one (unlike my landlord) so you can get a decent flow through the thing.
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[Doovy]

Sounds a lot of hassle. I'd be put off by it.
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[LustyLew]

It seems that anything in my price range is going to have similar hassle... I'd ideally like to stay local, but given a 1 bed flat in Beckenham is now asking for almost £300k, it's just too stupid.
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[Rogerborg]

[dodsi]

We are currently planning to rip out our electric heating system and shower and replace with a gas combi boiler.

Our situation is that we completed on our flat late December but have been renting it for the last 5 years.

At the moment we have these dimplex branded heaters which are a combination of a panel heater and a night storage - they charge up during the night on the economy 7 cycle and then use the panel heater to "top up" the heat. The only controls are temperature controls on each heater (a bar system)

a quick google shows it as these:
https://www.dimplex.co.uk/products/domestic_heating/installed_heating/duoheat_radiator/duoheat_radiator/index.htm


They are total dogshit.

every year there has been some issue with the control system meaning either the panel side has stopped working or the night storage element. And every year there has had to be a repair to one or all of the heaters.

They fail to "switch over" so you can be woken in the night with a clicking noise.

And to boot - they just don't keep the place very warm. Even with all curtains closed and doors closed for the whole day.

Depending on location - when we remove ours you are more than welcome to take them off our hands for a total cost of £0.00. Not that I am really selling them to you with my above statement.

[jimspeed]

It says there is a boiler in the bathroom??
Garages underneath mean the floor is going to be cold so maybe extra insulation under thick carpets and some decent electric fan heaters ?
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[Robby]

Hot water, you can get small, cheap, on-demand heaters. The inlaws have a couple of them - one on a bathroom feeding the shower and tap, another in the kitchen feeding the tap. I think they cost under £100 each and the father in law has fitted them on plastic pipes with push-fit connectors and isolation valves - so if the heater fails after a few years he can easily whip it out and fit another.

For heating, electric does cost more than gas but you have more options to be clever with it. Gas is cheaper per unit, but in general when the heating comes on you're heating the whole flat unless you can be bothered to walk around turning off radiators. Electric heaters combined with a bit of cleverness and an app allow you to control which heater is on and when - so you only heat what you need, when you need it.

Underfloor heating is certainly worth it in the bathroom. If you can get cavity wall insulation it makes a big difference.

I wouldn't let the lack of gas put me off. It might mean you spend an extra 50 quid a month at the moment, but the long term projections/intentions are for gas an electricity pricing to reach parity. You also don't have to worry about replacing an expensive boiler or any of the servicing/repair implications of a gas boiler and pipes/radiators full of dirty water.

[LustyLew]

Sorry yes, looks liek I missed the bit about storage heaters (I can read, honest!). Only in two rooms though. Would warrant an inspection to see if they are wired into an E7 meter.

I guess I'll have to scrub up on my maths and determine the cost of both E7 storage heaters and electrical radiators on their respective tariffs...

For a 1bed I'm probably over-analysing it of course!
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[doggone]

Electricity isn't all bad, don't forget gas (and oil) boilers need annual servicing.
That will pay for most of a month of heat.
If a gas boiler fails it's an even bigger bill as basically you can't touch it.

[LustyLew]

[The Shaggy D.A.]

Wear jumpers, take cold showers. You know it makes sense.
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[doggone]

[grr666]

Is a gas supply even allowed in the block? That's quite unusual for flats. It's usually far easier to just do away
with gas completely than have to jump through all the necessary regulatory hoops and checks.
The main buildings own regulations prevented me from fitting a boiler to a flat I developed last year.
So I sold it on as was with the storage heaters + immersion cylinder system. It was a very warm flat though
(top floor+ very well lagged loftspace), infact I completely removed a heater from the hall as it wasn't needed.
The problem was, I only owned the flat, not the building and there's where you may have difficulties.
Get in touch with the management company and see what the rules are for the block.
There are a lot of constantly changing complex regulations regarding new gas installs in multi occupancy
dwellings like low rise flats. Usually top dollar to get any gas work done as well, bear that in mind.
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[robs321]

You can actually install a wet radiator system, with a hot water tank and run it with an Electric boiler!
Worth a google to see what involved?

https://www.mrcentralheating.co.uk/boilers/boilers-by-type/electric-boilers

[CaNsA]

Why is gas not an option?

My landlord installed gas central heating and water system in the flat.

https://i.imgur.com/rQDQfX8.jpg