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Small CC bikes - And Track days

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binge
Emo Kiddy



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 00:03 - 06 Jul 2016    Post subject: Small CC bikes - And Track days Reply with quote

Okay, so today I was thinking...

We ride/race the pit bikes (Myself and a couple of friends).
My bike in particular, and my pal Jim's, are both 190cc motors, making 25bhp plus.
Okay, so they're a little vertically challenged at the side of full size bikes, even the 125cc sports range.
However, they would knock the spots off of a CBR125, new RS125, or just about any other 4t 125 sports bike on the market.

What would one be like, as somewhere like Brands Hatch.
On the Indy circuit....

The Brands Indy, is a little over 1.2 miles.
A Typical international Karting circuit is about 0.75 - 1mile long.


I guess, the corners will be more long and sweeping, rather than constant hair pins and chicanes.

I've never ridden on a big bike track before.

Has anybody here done a track day on something smaller?
Even something like a Supermoto (250cc or similar)

If Brands would allow it, i'd love to give an evening session a crack with the Novice groups.
But would not want to A, Have a dog shit evening by being super slow and practically upright all the way around.
And B, Possibly be in the way of all the other bikes?



My pit bike will pull an EASY 70mph, will probably see 80mph plus if I geared it taller.
I can corner it fast too.



So... Without too much laughing....

Whaddya Recon?
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- Honda XL125S - CBR400 NC29 - VFR400 NC30 - CBR400 NC29 - TL1000R - TeeZeR Pit! - Bandit 12 - YZF450 - LuckyMX125 Pit! - Demon X XLR 140 Pit!
- Stomp KZ 160 Pit! - Demon X D-link 140 Pit! - CRF50F Mini-Pit - MonsterMoto 155cc MiniSM - Honda Chaly 150cc - Yamaha 98' R1
- Honda Chaly 140cc - Thumpstar 190cc 4v MiniSM - Aprilia RS125 Pit-Bike -
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 06 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're in the novice group everyone else will be wobbling around upright so I bet you'll be running rings around them. Only one way to find out Very Happy
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binge
Emo Kiddy



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 00:23 - 06 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've asked the question to Brands, to see what, is actually stopping me from taking a Mid-size bike around Brands hatch.

Shall see what sort of response I get. Razz

P.S - Pete, I still need to pay you a visit at some point. Thumbs Up
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- Honda XL125S - CBR400 NC29 - VFR400 NC30 - CBR400 NC29 - TL1000R - TeeZeR Pit! - Bandit 12 - YZF450 - LuckyMX125 Pit! - Demon X XLR 140 Pit!
- Stomp KZ 160 Pit! - Demon X D-link 140 Pit! - CRF50F Mini-Pit - MonsterMoto 155cc MiniSM - Honda Chaly 150cc - Yamaha 98' R1
- Honda Chaly 140cc - Thumpstar 190cc 4v MiniSM - Aprilia RS125 Pit-Bike -
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garth
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PostPosted: 08:53 - 06 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd expect it to be fairly boring on a pit, you'll spend a LOT of time WOT.

Big bike tracks are wide and open. I'd be wanting 50bhp minimum really.

Cadwell do a pit bike race day though, I'm sure that would be fun, because Cadwell.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 11:05 - 06 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

garth wrote:
I'd expect it to be fairly boring on a pit, you'll spend a LOT of time WOT.

Big bike tracks are wide and open. I'd be wanting 50bhp minimum really.

Cadwell do a pit bike race day though, I'm sure that would be fun, because Cadwell.


Yeah this. You'd have to change the gearing so much that the bike wouldn't feel the same to ride. My money is on it being as dull as ditchwater, but I guess it would be fun to see you try.
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Matt B
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 06 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I predict either no response because phone monkeys. Or, more likely, no pit bikes because no rev counter and therefore no static noise test ability.

Do you have a working rev counter?
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binge
Emo Kiddy



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PostPosted: 11:21 - 06 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

My bike has an adjustable rev limiter. So can set it to what they want it testing at.
OORacing sell rev counters which piggy back the coil, so not a difficult thing to fit.

Top speed geared correctly it will easily pull 75/80 mph with the Daytona 190 in.
It will match a 125 2t sports bike (maybe not an RS).


Will see what they say.
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- Honda XL125S - CBR400 NC29 - VFR400 NC30 - CBR400 NC29 - TL1000R - TeeZeR Pit! - Bandit 12 - YZF450 - LuckyMX125 Pit! - Demon X XLR 140 Pit!
- Stomp KZ 160 Pit! - Demon X D-link 140 Pit! - CRF50F Mini-Pit - MonsterMoto 155cc MiniSM - Honda Chaly 150cc - Yamaha 98' R1
- Honda Chaly 140cc - Thumpstar 190cc 4v MiniSM - Aprilia RS125 Pit-Bike -
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:29 - 06 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt B wrote:
Or, more likely, no pit bikes because no rev counter and therefore no static noise test ability.

Do you have a working rev counter?


When I've seen bikes going through scrutineering at club races, they've used an induction rev counter you clip onto one of the HT leads.
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Matt B
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 06 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
When I've seen bikes going through scrutineering at club races, they've used an induction rev counter you clip onto one of the HT leads.


Club races though. One of the things MSV shout about on their site is the fact that you must have a working rev counter. On the day, who knows?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 06 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'd totally die with a top speed of 70 or 80 at Brands Indy. Razz
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binge
Emo Kiddy



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 06 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
You'd totally die with a top speed of 70 or 80 at Brands Indy. Razz


Watching videos of Go Pro'ers, other than the start finish, they are averaging 40/50 mph most of the way around.
I think I'd make some good time up on the corners. 😅
____________________
- Honda XL125S - CBR400 NC29 - VFR400 NC30 - CBR400 NC29 - TL1000R - TeeZeR Pit! - Bandit 12 - YZF450 - LuckyMX125 Pit! - Demon X XLR 140 Pit!
- Stomp KZ 160 Pit! - Demon X D-link 140 Pit! - CRF50F Mini-Pit - MonsterMoto 155cc MiniSM - Honda Chaly 150cc - Yamaha 98' R1
- Honda Chaly 140cc - Thumpstar 190cc 4v MiniSM - Aprilia RS125 Pit-Bike -
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 06 Jul 2016    Post subject: Re: Small CC bikes - And Track days Reply with quote

I've wondered about sticking one of the 160 pit bikes in and taking it out for a session.

I reckon Lydden hill would be a good start - generally a bit slower than brands, though you may suffer a bit going up the hill after Devil's elbow. It's exactly a mile and often has generally a slower clientle than brands. Compared to a kart circuit, in that distance it basically only manages to have 4 corners. There's only one really fast corner however. We did a moped race on a DNA125 there. The 2 stroke 125s in the same race were getting a decent pace on, but our near-stock 4 stroke with maybe 8-9hp wasn't great. (I think we did finish first 4 stroke however Smile ).

Gazdaman who doesn't post on here any more did his first trackday on an MZ250.
Not a tarted up race prepped one, but a stock road one. With tyres that were pretty much square.
At the old Snetterton circuit, which had two long fast straights. He was still passing people in the corners.

It wouldn't be my choice, however - be interesting to take one out for a session.
Novice I can see would be quite frustrating as you've got people who are slow in the corners and fast on the straights. Inters might make more sense. Even then, likely you'll find a lot that are a lot slower in the corners than you. (Though of course a lot slower is less of an issue as can be easily passed.)

Note than brands is now 102db for Indy circuit as well. You may need a tacho to be noise tested (as mentioned above, I see).
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binge
Emo Kiddy



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 14 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay. So Brands have responded saying that they do not allow Pit bikes on their track.

So I challenged it. Not in a cocky way, but just to get a better understanding as to what they perceive a pit bike to be.

I have photos of a Honda MSX125 doing a track day at Brands.
Strictly speaking, Honda remade the Kawasaki KSR110, which is what the MSX is.
And a KSR110 is just a KLX110 with road trim.
A KLX110, is a pit bike. Laughing
____________________
- Honda XL125S - CBR400 NC29 - VFR400 NC30 - CBR400 NC29 - TL1000R - TeeZeR Pit! - Bandit 12 - YZF450 - LuckyMX125 Pit! - Demon X XLR 140 Pit!
- Stomp KZ 160 Pit! - Demon X D-link 140 Pit! - CRF50F Mini-Pit - MonsterMoto 155cc MiniSM - Honda Chaly 150cc - Yamaha 98' R1
- Honda Chaly 140cc - Thumpstar 190cc 4v MiniSM - Aprilia RS125 Pit-Bike -
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 22:10 - 14 Jul 2016    Post subject: Re: Small CC bikes - And Track days Reply with quote

Interesting to see what they say.

I'm going to be at Brands Indy twice soon I think, but no time to dig out, prod and test a pit bike.
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Ed Case
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PostPosted: 22:29 - 15 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I had a Laverda I went to a 'track day' at Mallory Park where a very adventurous bloke on a Honda CB250RS was making life very difficult around the corners for quite a lot of otherwise 'heroes'. Down the straights he was getting well beaten-up but showed a lot how to ride in the twisty bits.......it's not the bike...it's the rider !.
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The Tot
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PostPosted: 00:29 - 17 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben,

Me and Marcus were out on track in Donington when a there was Honda Grom out on track with us! Bearin in mind that's the same size as yours with about 11bhp.

In the 8 laps I did on my session out, I lapped him twice at Donington. My lap times are typically around the 1:55 - 2:00 around Donny. He was riding out in the novice inters session!

Granted, he was only dicking about on his grom since his other bike in his van was an RSV4!

It is dooable, but you just have to watch out for faster bikes passing you at speed. The chap was decent enough to pull off line on craner curves and old hairpin so that we could apex it at speed.

Strictly speaking, I'd go in on novice group so that the speed differential isn't as severe.
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binge
Emo Kiddy



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 16:03 - 17 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Daytona 190 is making close to 3 times that power. So keeping up shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Brands dont seem to keen.
They do a Moped Mayhem at Lydden Hill. Might look into some track time there instead.
____________________
- Honda XL125S - CBR400 NC29 - VFR400 NC30 - CBR400 NC29 - TL1000R - TeeZeR Pit! - Bandit 12 - YZF450 - LuckyMX125 Pit! - Demon X XLR 140 Pit!
- Stomp KZ 160 Pit! - Demon X D-link 140 Pit! - CRF50F Mini-Pit - MonsterMoto 155cc MiniSM - Honda Chaly 150cc - Yamaha 98' R1
- Honda Chaly 140cc - Thumpstar 190cc 4v MiniSM - Aprilia RS125 Pit-Bike -
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 16:17 - 17 Jul 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I did the moped race there they cut out the hair pin and turned half way up the hill (got a feeling that turn might be used by rally cross course). Which was probably sensible as one bike barely managed 20mph and had less as it went up the hill!
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 08:38 - 04 Aug 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few years ago a couple of mates did a Cadwell trackday on RSX100s. They were in the novices and enjoyed it....
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