Kawasaki ER5 Oil Pressure

MahatmaAndhi · Traffic Copper Joined: 10 Jun 2015 Karma :

Hi guys,

Well, egg's on my face!
For those that haven't read, I bought an ER5 on Monday. Everything was absolutely fine. I was going to give it a service tomorrow. Been riding it around with no issues.
Got on it to go get some lunch and it started to start, but didn't kick over. The oil pressure and temperature lights both came on together, the engine stopped and now - nothing. Nothing at all. The lights are still on when the key is in the ignition, but when I push the starter, it doesn't even try to start.

I'm at a loss. There's not much information on the internet that I could find on my lunch break, but someone did mention that this happens when an electrical fault occurs and disconnecting the battery for 15min might fix it.

The battery is now disconnected. I'll go try again on my next break. However, I've a feeling that this won't work and was wondering if anyone knew what to try next if it doesn't.

Thanks.

And god damnit!

Kawasaki Jimbo · World Chat Champion Joined: 09 Oct 2015 Karma :

Flat battery.

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

The oil pressure light means there is no pressurised oil coming out of the oil pump. Which there isn't when the engine isn't running, situation normal.

The temperature light comes on when the engine isn't running to show it's working.

So. The lights are working correctly, they ought to be on when the engine isn't running but the ignition is on.

Seems like you have a problem with your satarter ciurcuit or possibly a flat battery. Does it make a clicking sound when you push the starter? How about with the clutch pulled in? The neutral light also ought to be on.

The ignition system on that bike isn't sophisticated enough to have fault codes. There is no ECU, there is just a pair of IC igniters to control the timing of the spark, no microprocessors involved, only straight electrics and electronics.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

tom_e · Brolly Dolly Joined: 27 Feb 2016 Karma :

Azoth · Brolly Dolly Joined: 07 Jul 2016 Karma :

Before trying to diagnose a fault, flip the kill-switch the other way and try again. Wink

Here's what I would do, assuming you've already put a multimeter across your battery and have a low voltage reading (low voltage means you also have low current):

1) Get a couple of jump leads, connect them up to your battery from a running, working bike, and see if your bike starts. If it does, then it's a reg/rec or battery fault.
2) Assuming your bike started when jumped and died shortly after the jump leads were taken off, something needs replacing, either the regulator/rectifier or the battery. If it started and didn't die after a couple of minutes of the engine running after the jump leads were removed, then you had a flat battery and that problem is now solved.
3) You don't want to unnecessarily spend money and replace a working component, so buy a trickle charger. Why? Because it's a useful thing to have, even if you have a working bike and battery, and trying a trickle charger on your battery right now will tell you whether your battery can take and hold a charge.
4) If your battery won't hold a charge from a trickle charger, you know you have to replace your battery.
5) If your battery can hold a charge, you know it's a generator or reg/rec unit issue. Now buy a new reg/rec unit (the more likely culprit) and replace it.

EDIT: The oil pressure and temp lights are wired in series on these bikes and should both be lit until you get oil pressure, which is immediately when the pump turns on and the engine starts. So if those lights are on when the engine isn't running but after you've turned the key, that's normal. Nevertheless, don't rule out a simple electrical short circuit! If you're very lucky it may start after jiggling some wires.

To add to what stinkwheel said, if it clicks when you try to start the ignition, that means your ignition circuit is OK.
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Safety in numbers

Evil Hans · World Chat Champion Joined: 08 Nov 2015 Karma :

My Bandit behaved similarly when the clutch safety switch was on the blink. Totally dead even when in neutral. Jiggling the wires helped for a bit, then I just bypassed it with a wire link until I could get a new one.
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Triumph Sprint ST 1050. And it's Red.

MahatmaAndhi · Traffic Copper Joined: 10 Jun 2015 Karma :

Thanks for the quick and very useful responses. I do appreciate it.
I'm still at work, so it's difficult to try and test anything. But here's an update so far.

Guy at work has a battery from a golf cart (dunno why,) so we connected that with jump leads. There was no difference.

The bike can be bump started! Another guy with a lot more riding experience than me bumped it a few times. The first with two of us pushing, then on his own. If push comes to shove, I should be able to get it home at least.

However, when he was on the bike, he said that something doesn't sound right. When pulling the throttle, rather than put-put-put-put-put as the revs get higher, there's a little stall. So it goes put-nothing-put-put-put-put as usual. But that lag in throttle concerned him.
Not sure if the two are related or completely separate.

Plus karma all around when I get home.

Kawasaki Jimbo · World Chat Champion Joined: 09 Oct 2015 Karma :

Azoth · Brolly Dolly Joined: 07 Jul 2016 Karma :

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Don't even think about pulling your carbs apart until you have a good, working charging system and a steady battery voltage.

If you have a low voltage it will be producing intermittant, poor quality sparks. Sort out the electrics then see how it is.

The carbs are unlikely to have suddenly stopped working overnight. The charging/electrical system could.

A well known fault with those EX500 derivatives is corrosion on the main power supply wire to the ignition switch. It's a fat white wire and runs from the main fuse block connector to the ignition switch. Pull the main 30A fuse holder (on top of the starter solenoid) and check the wires running into it for corrosion. They'll often pull right out.

People fixate on carbs becaue they don't understand electrics but electrical faults are far more common than fuelling faults.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

MCN · Super Spammer Joined: 22 Jul 2015 Karma :

I traded a bike that I had just fitted a new battery in. I had no intentions of selling the bike when I bought the battery or It would have been sold without. The battery that was in was working but was either on a ctek charger or the bike was 'in-regular-use.

So happens I refitted the old battery and put the new one in another bike.

The old battery started the bike fine. (1200cc Twin engine) but I had a private plate on the bike and wanted to swap to new bike.
I couldn't do that as the MOT had ran out the week later and DVLA were being completely wankers about it (the Taffy cunts.) so I had to ask the dealer if they could MOT the feckin bike I had sold them so I could retain the feckin plate. They don't do MoTs but they will let me take it to a place they use.
Hassle McHassleface.
I went the dealer and low and behold the fekin beast wouldn't start.
It had been sat for two weeks.
Moral: Don't sell a second hand bike with a duff battery. Smile

Sounds/reads awfy like your battery is simply goosed.
The previous owner probably knows that but had it on charge and you haven't charged it.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

MahatmaAndhi · Traffic Copper Joined: 10 Jun 2015 Karma :

update: got it home by bump starting it alone. knackered my shoulder due to how fast it lept forward.
i'm down to one arm. so i wont be doing anything for a few days. today sucks.

MCN · Super Spammer Joined: 22 Jul 2015 Karma :

Azoth · Brolly Dolly Joined: 07 Jul 2016 Karma :

If your arm is sprained/subluxed, it might be out of action for a bit longer than a few days, unfortunately.

As I mentioned, the delayed throttle response is a separate issue from your electrical problem. It is a good idea to fix your electrics and charging system so that your bike works, and while you're at it order a couple of new spark plugs because they're cheap and it's the usual practice to change them after acquiring a bike.
____________________
Safety in numbers

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Azoth · Brolly Dolly Joined: 07 Jul 2016 Karma :

I can't be sure, but the fact that the bike was working (probably quite badly) and then just failed to start when he went to it during his work break suggests very strongly that it's just not getting enough electrical juice, i.e. the battery or charging circuit is defective. I've seen a picture of his bike, and the way it looks doesn't match up with its description as a properly serviced bike. The minor details such as the left indicator bodged on with electrical tape hint that hundreds weren't always spent on Kawasaki servicing at regular intervals. Just looking at that bike, I would assume it runs a bit rough. The bike doesn't have an inline fuel filter, and is vulnerable to petrol contamination and bits of dirt blocking the jets, and the inaccessibility of the carbs means that they don't get stripped down much, and petrol varnish also afflicts them. Owners of the 250 Ninjas are always messing with the carbs and regularly have them off. EX500 bike owners hate going down in there because it's tricky. So a lot of these bikes and GPZ500s will run rough because of carb problems. That said, you're absolutely right that electrical problems, i.e. a weak spark, will cause rough or no running on the relevant cylinder. Once he's fixed and tested his electrical system and changed his spark plugs, I would bet the rough running is still there, though I may be wrong.
____________________
Safety in numbers

MahatmaAndhi · Traffic Copper Joined: 10 Jun 2015 Karma :

Well, I was suspicious about the battery issue. The battery itself looks in good nick (to the untrained naked eye.) No signs of corrosion or anything. And I also thought that if it was the battery, it wouldn't just be working perfectly fine at 8am then nothing at 12pm. So I had a thought - the starter switch itself was causing the issue.

I disassembled it. Gave it a bit of a clean. Put it back together and voila! The bike starts again! Whether it was dirt, moisture or whatever - I don't know. But it works.
However, my shoulder (while better) is still not fit to ride. I probably wouldn't get it out of my garden without further injury. So I can't fully test it.

Now it starts, I am going to book it in for a service. Get it done by a professional this time.

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

I've owned three kawasakis with that same engine design. Be aware that another fault I've had on all three was an intermittant ignition switch. It can fail in such a way as the dash lights come on and all the electrics work when you turn the key but the ignition circuit isn't activated.

Wiggling the key works for a while but you eventually need to replace the switch.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

Kawasaki Jimbo · World Chat Champion Joined: 09 Oct 2015 Karma :

Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

Mmm, I'll be surprised if that bike starts tomorrow morning.

Either way, buy yourself a cheap multimeter. It'll take a lot of "looks OK" guesswork out of it.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

MahatmaAndhi · Traffic Copper Joined: 10 Jun 2015 Karma :

MCN · Super Spammer Joined: 22 Jul 2015 Karma :