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andym |
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andym World Chat Champion
Joined: 16 Nov 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 17:30 - 03 Oct 2016 Post subject: Today I tried.... |
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Welding for the first time.... and it didn't go too well:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/andy36586/DSC_0618_zpshgkzb5uu.jpg
I decided to buy a cheap arc welder to practice with, I watched a couple of videos and set about some scrap (1mm) steel a friend had... at the moment I only have 2.5mm rods which either blew holes in the metal or I turned it down so low it the rods would just stick to the metal. It almost worked at just under 55 amps (or 2mm sticks).
Because it was cheap, it included a hand held mask which was more annoying than anything (having to strike the arc then cover my eyes, but I've ordered some gloves, 1.6mm rods, auto dimming mask and a few other bits.
If anyone has any tips or tricks to share then please do (other than give it up ya useless bastard) |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 21:08 - 03 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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A bit more....
Just been looking at cheap arc welders to see the specs and they are just about all AC so presuming you have one of those, you don't have to worry about polarity. Personally I use a DC inverter machine for 2 reasons, it's very light and it's DC. I get a much better weld with DC. A good machine will have removable electrode and earth cables and a +ve and -ve like a car battery terminals. You swap the cables depending on the polarity.
The big problem with cheap welders is the current control. You can set it but it will vary quite badly and where you might think it's just your fault you are burning holes, it can be the machine if you are welding right on the limit current wise.
Also, the reason I mentioned touch welding is the larger the arc, the larger the current until the arc breaks. That can result in blown holes, undercutting and an inconsistent weld. If you can rest the edge of the insulation on the rod onto the metal you will be amazed the improvement of your welding. I was terrible until I was shown that technique. Seagull shit had nothing on me
An auto dimming helmet is a must, it makes life so much easier and arc eye is a very painful injury I can assure you you don't want. It feels like someone has poured a bag of sand in your eyes.
Saying all that you can weld quite happily with one of those cheapy machines and get a reasonable finish. Different makes of rods make quite a difference so read the box. It will tell you if it's AC or DC, what current to use depending on the job etc. , try stainless rods, the finish you can get with them is stunning and you don't need to be that good to get it.
I love playing with welders but don't do it enough now and if you don't keep practising you lose your edge and it takes a while to get it back.
Oh, If you want to weld car bodywork, get a MIG welder. ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
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MCN |
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MCN Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Jul 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 21:19 - 03 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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Lots of useful on ChuckE's youtube channel
He teached himself
https://www.youtube.com/user/ChuckE2009
As above the current is not at all stable in the cheap welders. You can stick stuff together but the piece of joy I got from ALdi/Lidl will not burn my 1.5mm 6017 mild steel electrodes for a wee jobby I had.
I ended up having to use a lesser mild steel electrode.
The lesser rods were not as clean as the better rod I had specified and had a lot of inclusions. Possibly due to the fact that the arc welder current is not stable. Even at it mid range.
An inverted current welder is much better.
Or go TIG. But then you have gas hassles. And if you only do wee one off that gets old quick
ANd you may struggle getting an arc weld to work on thin sheet metal. ____________________ Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN. |
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thx1138 |
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thx1138 World Chat Champion
Joined: 06 Oct 2005 Karma :
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Posted: 21:49 - 03 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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I tried arc welding, with supervision, and I just kept getting the rod stuck to the metal. |
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pepperami |
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pepperami Super Spammer
Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 21:57 - 03 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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Ahh! the joys of trying to weld and not knowing a thing about it
If blowing holes in exhausts, getting arc-eyes, and sticking the rods to the metal you`re welding was a qualification, I`d be a teacher
I bought a MIG and it`s a lot easier to get a functioning weld, even if it`s not pretty. ____________________ I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now! |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 22:00 - 03 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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Get some stumpy ends of welding rods off a proper fabricator to practice with. They are much easier to strike a weld with.
The metal you're trying to weld in the picture looks very thin to be doing with an arc welder. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Chinaboy |
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Chinaboy World Chat Champion
Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Karma :
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andym |
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andym World Chat Champion
Joined: 16 Nov 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 23:25 - 03 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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I thought I'd have been laughed at for my first ever attempt at welding, but there's definitely some useful information here.... which I'll probably just ignore anyway
Seriously though:
Polarbear: I'm just working with what I've got at the moment, a friend gave me lots of scrap 1mm steel plates.... I know the rods are too thick and the metal too thin, but I tried the best I could..... having shit myself the first time I touched the rod to the metal. Also I can't find the picture, but this is the link to screwfix where I bought it from: https://www.screwfix.com/p/impax-im-arc140-10-115-140a-arc-welder-240v/17497?cm_sp=managedredirect-_-powertools-_-arcwelders&_requestid=715289#product_additional_details_container
I know it's shit, but I don't want to go spending hundreds on something that I might never get the hang of, so £80 is like spare change at the moment.
The one I bought I can reverse the leads (don't know if it says that in the description), but at the moment I'm keeping everything plugged in where it should be (even though I've watched videos explaining about electron flow etc.)
MCN: Noted.... and ignored
As said I've never touched a welder in my life, I've only ever walked past workers welding so never seen any up close and personal.... so I didn't know what to expect.
thx1138: When the amps were really low the rod would either bounce over the metal or stick solid, so I found myself ripping the rod off the metal several times, if you turn the amps up then after you strike the arc the rod moves quite freely from blowing holes up to a 1cm arc.
Stinkwheel: I've got about 130 2.5 rods and another 60 1.6mm rods being delivered, the striking isn't a problem (drag, lift slightly and weld), the metal is (as said) 1mm steel, I know it's thin as I shouldn't be trying anything less than fencing apparently but given time I'll hopefully be able to weld 2 bits of tinfoil together
Chinaboy: I've yet to see the difference between cold and warm rods, striking the arc was a bit hit and miss (drag and nothing, drag and nothing, touch and nothing, dra.... AAARRRCCC or d.arc.... if that makes sense). Today I was messing around with the amps and realised that the higher was easier to get a decent arc, but melted the metal like butter, the lower didn't create an arc and just caused the rod to stick a lot and not much else.
I may keep this thread as a bit of a diary as I'll be going to a friends and asking if I can practice a bit there (after getting some thicker scrap metal that is) |
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MCN |
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MCN Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Jul 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 23:51 - 03 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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Arc-Eye is your new forum name. ____________________ Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN. |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Chinaboy |
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Chinaboy World Chat Champion
Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Karma :
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andyscooter |
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andyscooter World Chat Champion
Joined: 30 May 2009 Karma :
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Posted: 08:13 - 04 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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welding thread needs more upsidedown four thou fishfinger shit geysers ____________________ gilera runner vxr200 (chavped)
if its spelt wrong its my fat fingers and daft auto correct on my tablet |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 09:10 - 04 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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2.5mm rods and 1mm steel? The impressive thing is that you didn't burn completely through on every run. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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colink98 |
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colink98 Could Be A Chat Bot
Joined: 27 Jun 2016 Karma :
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Posted: 09:14 - 04 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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auto masks are cheap enough off the interwebs plus you can get cool designs to make you look the business.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Welding-Helmets/b?ie=UTF8&node=1939591031
after that its practice practice and more practice.
i find the rod sticks less if you pull rather than push.
but im not sure if one way is good/bad ? ____________________ PCX125 (stolen) - CBF600 (current)
Ride it like you stole it.
ride sensible and not like an idiot and you wont get 6 points in one week. |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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andym |
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andym World Chat Champion
Joined: 16 Nov 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 13:41 - 04 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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Day 2 of destroying some metal.
While waiting for the thinner rods to arrive I decided to do the next best thing.... get some thicker metal.... So I went to the local scrap metal yard and explained what I was doing, so I found these bits and gave the guy a couple of quid for them.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/andy36586/DSC_0619_zpsk8ffer0u.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/andy36586/DSC_0621_zpsfzh9vygg.jpg
The 4 (and a bit) diagonal lines were my first attempt (at around 65 amps) and it was a lot easier to work than the thin metal, I need to concentrate on the speed I'm moving the rod though.... also I think it was Polarbear that said about resting the insulation against the metal, I tried that and it did make a big difference as I don't have the steadiest of hands.... although again it will take a bit of practice to get that right.... after that it all went downhill as you can tell by the rest of the welding on that piece.
I also tried joining 2 bits together:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/andy36586/DSC_0624_zpsem07txsy.jpg
OK the rod was all over the place, but I did manage to tack it and do a bit of welding under there, but because the gap was so large I decided to try filling it.... and that was the result.
Finally, after messing up those bits (I need to get some new discs for the grinder so I can clean it all off again), I decided to have another go at putting some lines on the thin metal:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/andy36586/DSC_0622_zpsm80yicao.jpg
Only problem now is that I'm working until Saturday night, so that's the practice over with til then, on the plus side my mask, gloves, rods and clamps should have arrived by then. |
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Chinaboy |
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Chinaboy World Chat Champion
Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 14:09 - 04 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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I think your amps were too low on the thicker material, try and find the right amps, up or down a bit. Also listen to the sound it makes. When stick welding imagine some bacon in a frying pan, a nice even sizzling noise is what you are after. Looking at your attempts so far, you are very unsteady. Now, most experienced welders can do this with one hand, you learn to be steady and accurate, you can however use your other hand to support the one holding the torch, but remember you need a full stick's length of travel with both hands as the stick gets shorter.
Another thing to remember is the 'slag' or flux that covers the hot weldment. Please always wear safety glasses as this has a tendency to explode off or the hot weld and can get in your eyes. Always be safe. Now the slag covers the weld as it cools to protect it from the oxygen in the ambient atmosphere, but it needs to be completely removed before you add to the weld again. If you don't do this you will have an inclusion in the weld which makes it weak and a possible break point. A chipping hammer and a stiff wire brush will remove the slag and prep for continuation. Also good to see you cleaned the rust/corrosion from the plate before you welded as this will also prevent a good weld.
Good luck for next time. |
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Chinaboy |
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Chinaboy World Chat Champion
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Posted: 14:15 - 04 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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You are moving the rod way too fast. The weld puddle should be about twice the diameter of the rod and when it hardens the shape of the weld bands should be half moon and not V shaped.
Much better on those diagonal welds though.
https://www.weldguru.com/images/stick-weld-examples.jpg ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
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colink98 |
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colink98 Could Be A Chat Bot
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scorps |
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scorps World Chat Champion
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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andym |
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andym World Chat Champion
Joined: 16 Nov 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 16:20 - 04 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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Maybe one day I'll be welding with fish fingers in a geyser of shit.... upside down
Thanks for the advice Polarbear, the one thing I noticed in your comments was about the mask, since it's a cheap welder it is a hand held mask that was included, so I have to either use my knee to steady my hand (which as Chinaboy has mentioned) means I get nice and close. |
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MCN |
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MCN Super Spammer
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 7 years, 208 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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