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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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 Posted: 03:24 - 28 Sep 2016  Post subject: |
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| Alpineandy wrote: | | 6R4H4M wrote: | When I lose the L's, there will be no leeway from other long-suffering road users. |
I think you're seriously over-estimating the observation skills of the majority of drivers. By far the majority just see a bike (if you're lucky) and are oblivious to the L-Plate. |
Personal experience; riding the same bike, in the same kit, on the same roads; as well experienced long standing full licence holder with and without L's, or L's x'd out or obscured (for various reasons over the years);
The L-Plate debate, as far as 'conspicuity' is concerned is a bit like playing Russian roulette with a double barrel shot-gun!
Without the L-Plate... they (mostly) DO see you... whether they know what they are looking at, is another matter; if they know what they are looking at; whether they know what to do about it, yet another again. But, if you are lucky and score three yes's in a row; they do see you, they do know what they are looking at and more, know what to do about it... you THEN have to hope that they actually DO it!
WITH an L-Plate... pretty much as above.... they mostly do see you... AND, the big red "L" is an icon they can associate with; gives them a huge clue what they are looking at "LEARNER!"... and hint what they should do about it... be patient, make room, offer a bit of pitty.. we were all learner's once..... They fall down on that last latch.... DON'T (always) DO IT!!!!
Instead, they get impatient, expecting L-Plate to hold them up; they get close and start to crowd you, looking for a way past or perhaps intimidating you into moving over and letting them by....
To many learners, it probably 'feels' like they all do that, but, TBH the general level of incompetence on our roads is pretty well homogenized; and you don't 'actually' get too many steering-wheel gnashers overtly trying to bully you out their way; there are probably as many or more very considerate folk on the road who will hang back, and give you space and actually go that extra inch to wait for you on a junction, or let you out of a turn or whatever; they just aren't so obvious, whilst majority, are some-where in the middle and will give a 'bit' more room and patience.
'Problem' is a little exacerbated by the fact that car drivers are not all that good at contending with motorbikes; they don't come accross them so often they aren't so familiar, and they are a strange shape.. not a 'box'. Being 1/3 the width of a car, they don't have a plane in-front of them, with width and edges to give them clues as to how far away it is... and they can see around it; so they will tend to draw up closer, anyway.
If you watch a column of passing traffic next time you are a pedestrian on a main road; look at how close cars follow other cars, compared to how close they follw vans or lorries... bigger what ever infront of them is, further back they hang... it feels that much closer so they back off!
And if you are new to bikes, and more pronounced if you are used to sitting in cars, more still if used to sitting in one as a driver; they FEEL bludy close, even when they aren't really!!!
Bike is that much shorter than a car; and you have bugger all behind you, and you have the mirrors that much closer; even if a car is regulation 2s behind your number-plate; on a bike that gap feels small, because there's so much less between you and number-plate, and the perspective is all changed to exaggerate it.
Difference between having an L-Plate or not? I say a lot they dont 'see' so they dont 'see' an L-Plate, when folk are worried about the styling of Learner-Legals; but truth is they do make a difference, and the iconic association of the L-Plate does aid conspicuity at the second level; after getting attention, the L-Plate is easily interpreted, and does help them understand what they are seeing and give clue what they should do... as such it's actually one of the very few 'conspicuity-aids' that actually can have positive effect, IMO...
It's like a traffic light; we all know RED means 'Stop'; GREEN mean's 'go'; its an easy 'signal' to interpret. AMBER.. just as easy to interpret... BUT where the 'slow, be ready to stop' response is the correct one; so many will wince and speed up and try and 'beat' the lights.
L-Plate can do the same; and the iconic 'signal' may, instead of prompting a response to be patient & make space, has perverse effect and they will be less patient and give less room.
So it's back to the loaded shot-gun.... whether they take deliberate aim or not? doesn't really matter! Its whether they hit you or not!!!!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Jaymz1975 |
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Jaymz1975
L Plate Warrior
Joined: 04 Apr 2016
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Posted: 21:52 - 29 Sep 2016  Post subject: |
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| Oneear wrote: | As a counterpoint to that:
I passed my CBT at the end of May this year (I'm 40yrs old), never having sat on a motorbike previous to that but having lots of road experience, and wanting at some point to get myself a bigger bike.
I bought myself a 2010 YBR 125 with low miles (6000ish) for £800 to get used to riding and build my confidence up. It's worked for me - I've gradually started to enjoy riding more and more, becoming sure of myself and my riding as time and miles have passed, using it for going to the shop, going to work, out for longer drives into the countryside, and honestly, it's GREAT. For all the suggestions to go straight on and do the DAS, i'm very happy and a lot more assured having done a few months on the 125. I'm in for my theory next Wednesday, and will be looking to do more training after that.
As far as costs go, i'll get the money back on the YBR without too much problem. Maintenance, well I've done that myself. All the service items on it are easily done with a few tools at home and costs are next to nothing. Insurance was a £150.
I'd say, if you felt good on the CBT, took to it easily, feel full of confidence, then yeah, go straight on the DAS.
If you fancy a bit of practice, then get a 2nd hand Honda/Yamaha and you won't lose money on it if you choose sensibly (buy private, not dealer). Do the work on it yourself, be confident that it has been done correctly, and in the process learn about the bike and save garage hourly rates.
Others can tell you about the Zontes.
Oh, and Ebay for good safety kit. |
My experience is virtually identical to this. Started riding in May this year (40yrs old) and bought a 2014 ybr 125. I now use the bike every day for a 14 mile commute each way that goes through Bradford so plenty of filtering practice. I take my theory in Oct and hopefully will get my big boys bike early 2017. I will be keeping the 125 though as it's great in the heavy traffic for filtering, although it's shit on the Bingley bypass...67mph tops. I've only been riding for 5mths so am not really qualified to give advice, but for what it's worth, be your own man/woman when you ride and only do what you feel comfortable doing.....if a scooter or motorbike whizzes past you with some fancy overtake/filtering don't feel you have to do the same, as it'll come to you as you get more confident |
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| 155mph |
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155mph
Nova Slayer
Joined: 17 Jul 2016
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| Posted: 18:27 - 01 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | Exactly how often do people stop you and say "Nice 600. Whoa, L plates! My mind, it's totally blown!" |
Actually, most bikers I meet in real life are positive, friendly and encouraging.
| Rogerborg wrote: | For another 5 weeks. |
Why? I plan to hold on to it until next summer. It suits me fine. It's only to commute to work and back.
| Rogerborg wrote: | A brand new £4,270 bike mostly sold to starry eyed Yoofs on finance? |
£4,171 OTR. At 0% finance. Get it right if you want to show off. I'd much rather enjoy my time on a 125 that I enjoy riding, than riding on a damp squid.
| Rogerborg wrote: | If a dealer offers you even £3K in trade in, I'll be astonished. |
Point? You know nothing about me or my circumstances.
Perhaps in future just stick to responding to the OP instead of taking shots at other people's opinions. |
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| carpe_diem |
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carpe_diem
Trackday Trickster
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| Flatbadger |
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Flatbadger
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| Posted: 23:19 - 01 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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I'm still happy on my DR125/sluggish little abomination after 4.5 years. Maybe that says more about me than about bikes 
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
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| Posted: 06:36 - 02 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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| 155mph wrote: | I'd much rather enjoy my time on a 125 that I enjoy riding, than riding on a damp squid. |
Four fucking grand? To ride not (such) a 'damp-squid'?!?!?!!???!?!?!!!??????
End of the day mate, its your money.....
I rode a 125 through uni, well beyond L-Plates, as it suited needs and pocket, and still ride tiddlers for shit'n'giggles...
But last time I even considered spurging that sort of money on a motorbike, it was a Honda CBR1100XX Super-Black-Bird; a motorcycle that has disputed the title as the worlds fastest production motorcycle with the dolphin friendly sneeze.. sorry Suzuki Hyabusa, for the last twenty years, and is restricted to a mere 172mph!!!!
I have to say, I ultimately walked away from it and bought a 125 (or eight!) instead... treated the old Seven-Fifty to a new battery, tyres and handlebars, bought a 'reliable' car; took the kids on holiday a few times; treated myself to a new computer, a-n-d sponsored my O/H through her bike tests... and helped her buy her own 750 motorbike when she got the licence, and STILL had change for a curry or twenty!!
By my sense of sensibilities, even one of THE fastest flagship motorcycles money can buy,did not represent four grands worth of 'Fun'.
And in retrospect? Five years on, hell yeah! I got FAR more fun from what I spent that money on, than having some icon of awesome sitting around under-utilised, and doing little more than the old seven-fifty practically does, without the fret factor of how much slapping on my tank-bag or an unco-ordinated pillions boot scratching up the paint-work may do to the resale value!
So to suggest that it IS worth it to ride a not so damp, damp squib four-stroke 125, that is only infinitesimally less of a damp squib than more regulation damp squib bikes like a YBR or CG.... Seriously?
Like I said, it's your money, mate, and you are as entitled to your delusions as the next man, but honestly, other than yourself WHO do you think you are kidding?!
It's a nice little bike; but it is what it is; a 125 Learner-Commuter. Its performance is as useful as anything else in its class but at best merely 'adequate', it's never going to set the world on fire. Its styling is neat, but its never going to fool any-one it is anything but what it is, even without the L-Plate advertising the fact, and its new-bike depreciation is going to be horrendous, as it is on any new-bike; while the attractive finance package not doing much to damp that or mask the inflated sticker price much; convenience & peace of mind of buying brand new may have some worth; one stop shop and convenient credit maybe some more; BUT where Learner-Commuters greatest strength is in in offering 'cheap' wheels, paying THAT much money for one rather defeats the one thing they can be good at.
And an awful lot of what you have yet to actually pay for, on a bike on credit, is in that 'ego-massaging' late plate new-ness; and similarly 'ego-massaging' added style over a more 'utilitarian' Learner-commuter like the YBR or CG.
If you are happy that 'feel-good-factor' is worth what you are yet to pay for it, then fair enough, but PLEASE.. don't try and kid any-one else that its worth any more than that, or that that 3mph difference in speed and implied performance is worth almost twice the price, or some-how makes it any less of a damp-squib than any other four-stroke Learner-commuter 125!!
If you didn't want to ride a 'damp-squib'; you shouldn't have bought ANY 125, and unless under 19, for the sake of a licence you didn't have to.
For not a lot different money, the Suzuki SV650 seems perpetually to be on some sort of all year DFS furniture like end of season sale; oft derided as a Newbie-commuter and not all that exiting, but come on! that's a bike with 75bhp, and a 125mph top speed, that even if you had to restrict it to A2 compliant 45bhp and a mere 110ish mph, has factorially more 'go' than any 125, not just fractionally more than the majority of them, and isn't going to be 'mistaken' for a big-bike... it Is one!!
If you have a full licence, no limit to how much performance you might have except your wallet, and even that doesn't need to be all that fat when you can buy a 2nd hand Busa or Bird for less than you haven't quite yet paid for a not quite so 'boring' boring 125!!!
Like I said, it's your money' if you are happy you are getting value for it, great. If you are content with its adequate performance and it doing the job required, fantastic. There's nowt wrong with that; BUT, please don't try kidding us its anything more than what it is, and an awful lot of that new-bike price tag you have yet to pay for is a pretty big indulgence to have a not so 'low-cost', low-cost learner-commuter.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| andyscooter |
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andyscooter
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| Posted: 09:43 - 02 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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| carpe_diem |
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carpe_diem
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Posted: 10:41 - 02 Oct 2016  Post subject: |
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Maybe it was a nod to the IT Crowd, but I suspect that the poster is just an idiot.
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Currently riding: Suzuki EN125 | Previous rides: Vespa 125PX, Yamaha SR125 |
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| talkToTheHat |
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talkToTheHat
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| Vulusmaximus |
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Vulusmaximus
Derestricted Danger
Joined: 25 Sep 2016
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| Posted: 16:39 - 02 Oct 2016 Post subject: Clothing |
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Okay guys, aiming to take the theory test at the end of the month and do some DAS training straight after, reaching out to a company in Knaresborough that has been recommeded to me.
Currently reading the highway code. Came across the first bit of info I didn't already know, a 'toucan crossing' LOL
Now turning my thoughts to protective clothing...
So presumably... Hellmet, gloves, jacket, trousers and boots.
Any recommendations/pointers you can give me in terms of style and makes ?
For those with a passing interest in military vehicles, I've embedded a pick of the truck I sold, an american 1944 GMC CCKW 352. Very slow, thirsty, a crash gearbox that is best described 'an aquired taste' she was great  The fear that something was going to go 'bang' and leave me with a huge bill, was ever-present, LOL.
Kind regards to all
Ian
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| Oneear |
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Oneear
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
nimbA
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| Posted: 09:07 - 03 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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| carpe_diem wrote: | Maybe it was a nod to the IT Crowd, but I suspect that the poster is just an idiot. |
Now, now, we don't know anything about his circumstances. 
I'm sure he could pass his tests any time he chooses, he just doesn't choose to.
https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/51567797.jpg
He's absolutely certain that he's done the right thing, right up to the point where he gets on an A training bike.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| carpe_diem |
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carpe_diem
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
nimbA
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Posted: 10:21 - 03 Oct 2016  Post subject: |
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Geysers of fish fingers. 
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Alpineandy |
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Alpineandy
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| Posted: 13:16 - 03 Oct 2016 Post subject: Re: Clothing |
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| Vulusmaximus wrote: | Now turning my thoughts to protective clothing...
So presumably... Helmet, gloves, jacket, trousers and boots.
Any recommendations/pointers you can give me in terms of style and makes ? |
This can be a world of frustration for an experienced biker and more so for a newbie.
Basically ignore the sizing on your non-bike cloths as Bike Gear sizes are a completely different measurement (with the possible exception of footwear, but even that's not simple).
Find the nearest large bike gear place (J&S or similar) and try some stuff on for size.
When you know what size jacket (or whatever) from one manufacturer actually fits properly, that's still only a guide for other ranges from the same manufacturer or other manufacturers.
You may be lucky and find you have a body size/shape that works with most brands but many don't.
Similarly, Bash Hats aren't all the same.
Try them on in the shop. Some fit egg heads best, whilst others fit long heads best etc etc.
When you've worked these out then you can take a risk on 'on-line' shopping.
As for which brands, again that can be a bit of a gamble as many of the more 'cost effective' good names like Richa, Furygan, RST and Alpinestars are usually good but they do have the odd piece of cr4p as well.
If you're not commuting and just riding for fun, IMO it may be better to buy cheaper stuff in the knowledge you'll replace it in a year or two when you know what suits your usage best.
But don't skimp on armour. So if you want to ride in jeans then wear Kevlar jeans with knee and hip armour.
Or you could be lucky and an ebay buy could be a prefect fit, in which case try a lottery ticket
____________________
The above comment isn't necessarily the truth and anyone that says it is, is only correct if it's the truth or they're bigger than me.
Last edited by Alpineandy on 17:05 - 03 Oct 2016; edited 1 time in total |
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| Derivative |
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Derivative
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Vulusmaximus
Derestricted Danger
Joined: 25 Sep 2016
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| Posted: 08:51 - 11 Oct 2016 Post subject: Theory Test |
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Passed the theory test yesterday guys 
47 on the multiple choice and 56 on hazard perception.
Training session booked for Thursday at (A2B in Knaresborough) where I'll organise some more training and book the test.
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"What we do in life, echoes in eternity..."
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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| Posted: 09:25 - 11 Oct 2016 Post subject: |
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Good stuff, that's the right way to go. 
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| 155mph |
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155mph
Nova Slayer
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 7 years, 198 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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