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| Andrew_ |
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Andrew_
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| Val |
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Val
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 Posted: 20:46 - 01 Jan 2013  Post subject: Tom GT and Arai? |
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| TomGT wrote: | don't pay any attention to the Sharp test, it is complete and utter bollocks. When the Sharp scheme won't tell manufacturers like Schuberth how they can improve, and £50 Chinese lids are getting more stars than Arai, you know something's up.
Went in to Infinity the other day and the guys in there agreed, they had an Arai Rx? that was worn by a lad who used to work there, he hit the central reservation of the M1 head first at 80mph, the Arai has a scuff on the left side and some smashed foam on the inside, but he survived without any head injuries.
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The guy who will sell you 400 pounds helmet has agreed, really? And this is your scientific argument 
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Try that in any Box, Nitro, Takawattawa, Caberg and you will be killed, more often than not the helmet compresses to something like a piece of steel. The fact that Richard Hammond is still alive is testament to Arai, as well as the many racers who crash and survive. The reason Arai's score so low is because the side pods fall off, which they are meant to, this has probably saved lives on its own.
The Simpson Bandit doesn't even have a Sharp rating, but has all sorts of Snell ratings and suchlike, the fact that drag racers going more than 200mph trust them means they are more than good enough for the road. |
Sharp is not bollocks, what you are talking is utter bollocks mate. SHARP rating is the best independent testing and it is the best one known so far.
ok how about we put some real facts in the discussion not only manufacturers/sellers point of view, I would not trust my life on the word on the manufacturer.
Here are the facts (my citation from): https://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/01/rating-helmets-beyond-passfail/
"Randy says:
From what I’ve read, the Arai’s don’t do well in SHARP testing because they have been designed with the SNELL tests in mind. The SNELL tests are at higher G’s and they test how well the helmet does in multiple hits in one area. To pass those tests the helmet has to have stiffer linings, which means that they have less give in lower speed hits. So doing well in SNELL trades off high speed safety for real-world lower speed safety. SNELL helmets may be better for racing, but ironically lower priced helmets with softer linings might be safer for street riding."
and
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It is a matter of the amount of energy absorbed by a helmet at various speeds. According to this article:
https://www.westcoastweasels.com/archives/PDF/Blowing_the_Lid_Off.pdf
“The European Union recently released an extensive helmet study called COST 327, which involved close
study of 253 recent motorcycle accidents in Germany, Finland and the U.K. This is how they summarized
the state of the helmet art after analyzing the accidents and the damage done to the helmets and the
people: ‘Current designs are too stiff and too resilient, and energy is absorbed efficiently only at values of
HIC [Head Injury Criteria: a measure of G force over time] well above those which are survivable.’ ”
So, in other words, SNELL helmets are designed with an eye towards dealing with impacts where the rider isn’t going to survive in any case, at the expense of doing a better job of dealing with impacts that are survivable. In the case of lower energy, survivable impacts, SNELL helmets don’t do as well as helmets designed with an eye only towards ECE and SHARP.
I suggest that everyone read the cited article."
Having said that the whole question do I want Arai helmet or not does not make sense, for me the only good helmet is the one that is comfortable to my head and fit my head.
In your case it may be Arai or Shoei, but it is also known fact you pay big chunk of money for the brand not for real safety.
About the OP question probably Nitro Aikido is way better than Arai, if it fits.
Definitely 400 pounds Arai with 3 SHARP stars is not 10 times better then 40 pounds cheap helmet with good SHARP 5 stars rating. Unless you are delusional 
Funnily enough I've just been to the Infinity shop few days ago trying Arai Quantum, Caberg Ego, Shoei Qwest and Scorpion Exo 500 and unfortunately no ones is at least with the same comfort to my head as my old Spanish MT Revenge, in fact all of them were a lot worst.
The point is get the helmet which will fit your head and forget about snobbish brands.
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| TomGT |
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TomGT
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Posted: 22:18 - 01 Jan 2013  Post subject: |
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Are you thick?
You may have a point about helmet fit, i.e. a £50 lid that fits is better than a £400 one that doesn't, but are you stupid enough to believe that sharp tests are as fair and unbiased as they say they are?
When Schuberth lids score x amount of stars in a Sharp test, Schuberth asks sharp what went wrong and how they can improve them, keeping in mind Schuberth is a major manufacturer and probably sell thousands of helmets a year in the UK. And how do sharp respond? They don't, the whole point of the scheme is to inform buyers and make helmets safer, but sharp isn't interested in that.
Do you seriously think that a helmet that is literally thrown together in a factory in China is better than a helmet that has been the subject of millions of pounds worth of research, extensive product testing, and then precision assembly by trained people, before batch testing?
I'll admit that I am loyal to the Arai brand, but that's firstly because they are the best made helmets on the market, you can pick one up and feel the quality, the only other helmets made that well are Shoei, some Schuberth's, top end AGV, and top end HJC's. Secondly, I have seen first hand how they work, whether its a BSB race at Brands or a Bemsee weekend tournament, riders who should be dead after a crash have no or minimal head injuries, because Arai exceed all safety standards on their own. I don't know of any other manufacturer that drop 3kg spikes onto their helmets, sharp don't even test that.
As I said earlier I've treated people who've worn cheap lids, and seen the results, if you had you'd quickly change their tune.
| Arai wrote: | Arai’s motorcycle helmets exceed the ECE 22.05 Europe-wide safety standards on impact absorption. Arai choose nine separate points on the helmet shell and subject each of those areas to up to four impact tests, some 36 impacts in total. Arai don't have to test each shell so rigorously to meet the regulations, but they test way beyond the accepted industry standard because they believe every Arai helmet must offer the highest level of crash protection. Arai’s car helmets again are subjected to Arai’s own in-house standards which far exceed all global standards.
The unique Arai helmet Penetration test. Arai drop a 3kg heavy metal spike onto each Arai motorcycle shell to test its penetration resistance. Again, this is NOT required for the EU 22.05 helmet standard - but Arai do it anyway |
I haven't looked into other manufacturers, but I imagine most helmet companies have their own in-house tests. Box doesn't even have a website, they're probably made in a Chinese sweat shop. Nitro has a website, but by the piss-poor translation they're probably not a more established company than Nitro.
Believe what you want for a 30mph lowside, but when I'm doing over a tonne around Pirbright Bends I know what I'd rather have on my head. If you really wanted I could send you some autopsy pics of bikers, especially cruiser riders who wear open-face helmets that still somehow meet British standards and have probably been sharp tested, but I'd really rather not, I've seen worse things and it genuinely makes me feel ill.
It's really easy to read an article on the internet and take it as gospel, but brands mean nothing to me, if I'd seen the same real life results from a Caberg I'd be wearing one now. Don't get me wrong they're probably great, comfortable lids with loads of features, but they're not good where they matter most.[/quote]
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| bikertomm |
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bikertomm
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Posted: 22:43 - 01 Jan 2013  Post subject: |
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Just saying,
A helmet isn't going to always going to save your life.
(Still, worth giving yourself the best chance)
That is all!
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Jemcamb
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Val
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Val
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Val
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| Posted: 23:47 - 01 Jan 2013 Post subject: |
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| TomGT wrote: |
Are you thick?
You may have a point about helmet fit, i.e. a £50 lid that fits is better than a £400 one that doesn't, but are you stupid enough to believe that sharp tests are as fair and unbiased as they say they are?
When Schuberth lids score x amount of stars in a Sharp test, Schuberth asks sharp what went wrong and how they can improve them, keeping in mind Schuberth is a major manufacturer and probably sell thousands of helmets a year in the UK. And how do sharp respond? They don't, the whole point of the scheme is to inform buyers and make helmets safer, but sharp isn't interested in that.
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No I am not thick, but you should be pretty stupid yourself, given the facts that you do not understand how the SHARP is working. They are independent and DO NOT get any helmets directly from manufacturers, and the opposite to SNELL they get all helmets from resales not directly from manufacturers. The testing methodology is public so if any manufacturer wants to improve it is up to them to do that.
And want kind of stupid argument you are giving - just what you have been brainwashed by the guys who sold you a lid. Compare to the study I have cited?
Either you are genius better than all SHARP industry scientists together or more likely you are very thick yourself.
| TomGT wrote: |
is talking real bollocks here
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Last edited by Val on 19:09 - 02 Jan 2013; edited 1 time in total |
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Dave-the-rave
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TomGT
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Posted: 02:40 - 02 Jan 2013  Post subject: |
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As usual I end up arguing with someone who thinks they know what they're talking about. Doubt it really matters when your ride a bike that only does 70 anyway.
Do what you want, if you're so confident in the sharp test go and wear a £50 Chinese helmet, maybe I'll get to see the inside of that thick skull of yours if my shift patterns line up
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thepuma
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stinkwheel
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| Posted: 13:34 - 02 Jan 2013 Post subject: |
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Lots of butthurt in this thread.
I agree with Valko. There is a pretty large body of evidence that the impact tests we are subjecting helmets to are totally irrelevant to real life. If they had a head in them when the test was performed, the owner of that head would be in no position to worry how much the helmet cost.
Helmets need to break more easily.
Many racers choose an Arai because they don't always need to be replaced after an off. Is this actually a good thing?
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Old Thread Alert!
There is a gap of 3 years, 283 days between these two posts... |
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talkToTheHat
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| Posted: 12:58 - 28 Nov 2016 Post subject: |
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This is a really old thread for new questions, but I'll bite. IS17 is what, about 1550g? RPHA ST (mixed fibre) is 1425g which is only 25g more same as a much older FG-15 which is very budget race, very flimsy vents and minimally padded, but has a sunvisor, pinlock, thicker visor and much more substantial vents, so technology has moved on.
I had an IS-16 (plastic) which was 1600g, and a 1400g FG-15 was immediately noticeably lighter. I didn't feel a difference between the the FG-15 and my speed-R (1390g). Skwal (plastic, 1600g) noticably more again. AGV K3SV (plastic) is 1490 and I'm not sure I can tell the difference in weight between that and my FG15 or RPHA-ST.
Clearcoated carbon does look nice, but the gains over mixed fibre or glass fibre are negligable and over thermoplastic are small as the shell of the helmet is a small fraction of the overall weight. Light helmets do feel nice, but comfort features like an internal sunvisor, good vents, a pinlock and pehaps an intercom may be more important than outright weight.
More important is a helmet with aero that works with your bike and riding position. Reduced turblance means reduced fatigue. I got loads of buffeting on my FG-15, which was very tiring. Shark Speed-R was very good on naked bikes and the difference between the two was remarkable. AGV K3-SV is noisy but well vented, but I've not had any buffeting issues. RPHA-ST is quiet, well vented and seems ok for buffeting thus far, but I've not tried a long motorway trip. Skwal had issues and I don't recommend anything with that visor mechanism, but was free from buffeting when it worked.
I note a bigger difference can be made by fitting or removing intercom or camera.
Note there is some minor shape differences in the fit of HJC helmets, IS-17 is rounder, FG and RPHA slightly more oval.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 7 years, 149 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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