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250 tourer anyone?

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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 21 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

With reference to an adventure bike for touring -

How much cheaper would it be to make a 250cc adventure bike than a 650cc one? Probably no cheaper in reality. We have been seduced by Chinese small bike prices and are starting to expect them from mainstream manufacturers.

A bit like a 600 supersports are probably only that bit artificially cheaper than a one litre or no one would buy them.

And then, once you put luggage, fuel, people on board and take in the almost identical physical size I really cannot see a reason to buy a 250cc adventure bike over a 650 one.
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 14:11 - 21 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
With reference to an adventure bike for touring -

How much cheaper would it be to make a 250cc adventure bike than a 650cc one? Probably no cheaper in reality. We have been seduced by Chinese small bike prices and are starting to expect them from mainstream manufacturers.

A bit like a 600 supersports are probably only that bit artificially cheaper than a one litre or no one would buy them.

And then, once you put luggage, fuel, people on board and take in the almost identical physical size I really cannot see a reason to buy a 250cc adventure bike over a 650 one.


There you go again with your iron clad logic. How are we supposed to argue with that?!
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 19:12 - 21 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
I really cannot see a reason to buy a 250cc adventure bike over a 650 one.


Like I said , it`s what you want from the bike.
For me personally I find bigger bikes too easy on the road, I mean you point-squirt-point-squirt and you`re there.
with my 250`s of lovelyness, I feel that I have accomplished something just by getting there? Smile .

Just my Penny Coin Penny Coin
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 19:56 - 21 Nov 2016    Post subject: Re: 250 tourer anyone? Reply with quote

Fladdem wrote:
when I went to Goodwood this year, the new Africa Twins were rusty as well. So, good work all round!

Yes they have a terrible reputation for corrosion on nuts/bolts and wheels.
I gather Honda have promised their dealers that it's No1 on their list to sort out...
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 21 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

pepperami wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
I really cannot see a reason to buy a 250cc adventure bike over a 650 one.


Like I said , it`s what you want from the bike.
For me personally I find bigger bikes too easy on the road, I mean you point-squirt-point-squirt and you`re there.
with my 250`s of lovelyness, I feel that I have accomplished something just by getting there? Smile .

Just my Penny Coin Penny Coin


And that is absolutely fine. It all depends what you want out of touring. To me, struggling with an loaded underpowered bike is not an enjoyable way to tour. Certainly not large distances.

If I wanted to play with a 250 I'd strap it to the back of a camper, go somewhere and ride it from where I was parked. Therefore no excess weight on it when I wanted to play.
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Snod Blatter
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PostPosted: 23:17 - 21 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
To me, struggling with an loaded underpowered bike is not an enjoyable way to tour.


Just how much struggling do you think goes on? You're not pedalling it to make up for the lack of power. You're not competing on track. You're travelling along roads at the speed limit. I took the CB250 to Scotland this year and had a great time:

https://i.imgur.com/Wz7KR5R.jpg

A bloke bought me drinks in the pub all night for being a hero who dared to tour on a 250, which was most amusing. When I got home my dad said he wouldn't fancy going all that distance on that, all the constant "WEEEEEEEEE" up the motorway.. All I wondered was how is it any different from a constant "BRRRRR" instead? It's not me doing the work.

I like the 250 though because it is light, which makes living with it nice and easy. That is what these new machines are lacking!
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lingeringstin...
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PostPosted: 23:59 - 21 Nov 2016    Post subject: all depends Reply with quote

Depends on what one calls "touring".

I've been to Germany and all around Yerp for several months on my 250 MZ loaded up with camping gear and had a blast, but some people have a whole different idea about touring.

To me it's all about the journey, and I love the low cost bimble on my bike. Been all over the place through all kinds of terrain and weathers and I love it BUT... I don't generally do motorways.

I know a guy who's got some enormous complicated contraption of well over 1000cc and he only ever does motorways if he can get away with it. To him you hit the nearest motorway and do 100mph and get there as fast as you can and never slow down until you're there. MOTORWAYS! MOTORWAYS! MOTORWAYS! MORE SPEED! POWER!!!

Personally I think he hates riding motorcycles or something. I'd rather take three days to cover the same distance in a more interesting landscape and have fun doing it.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 01:27 - 22 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can understand all that but I tour, sometimes with a pillion who wants to bring enough clothes to have a different outfit every night.

So I am one of those that uses a big bike with hard luggage and have for the past 20 years or so of touring. I have all the toys, satnav, radio, heated seats etc. etc. and that is what I like. Maybe if I was in my 20's again I'd tour on something else but I'm not. Laughing

My 1800 Goldwing was probably the best bike I ever toured on, simply because the missus used to fall asleep on the back when she got bored of poking me in the ribs and asking 'Are we there yet?'
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Mawsley
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PostPosted: 08:52 - 22 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
My 1800 Goldwing was probably the best bike I ever toured on, simply because the missus used to fall asleep on the back when she got bored of poking me in the ribs and asking 'Are we there yet?'


Nothing that can't be achieved with an old GS250, a sissy bar and a reel of bodge tape. Cool Very Happy
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 20:29 - 22 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snod Blatter wrote:
I took the CB250 to Scotland this year and had a great time:

https://i.imgur.com/Wz7KR5R.jpg


I like the 250 though because it is light, which makes living with it nice and easy. !


10-out-10 for using the 250 Thumbs Up
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 22 Nov 2016    Post subject: Re: all depends Reply with quote

lingeringstink wrote:
Depends on what one calls "touring".

I've been to Germany and all around Yerp for several months on my 250 MZ loaded up with camping gear and had a blast, but some people have a whole different idea about touring.

To me it's all about the journey, and I love the low cost bimble on my bike. Been all over the place through all kinds of terrain and weathers and I love it BUT... I don't generally do motorways.

I know a guy who's got some enormous complicated contraption of well over 1000cc and he only ever does motorways if he can get away with it. To him you hit the nearest motorway and do 100mph and get there as fast as you can and never slow down until you're there. MOTORWAYS! MOTORWAYS! MOTORWAYS! MORE SPEED! POWER!!!

Personally I think he hates riding motorcycles or something. I'd rather take three days to cover the same distance in a more interesting landscape and have fun doing it.


Kin Ell!! someone who thinks similar to me Thumbs Up
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 21:22 - 22 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I`ll just leave this here Wink Thumbs Up

My favourite You-Tube video of all time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHbwubVx-bs
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 23 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

pepperami wrote:
I`ll just leave this here Wink Thumbs Up
My favourite You-Tube video of all time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHbwubVx-bs


What a big girl.
If you're determined to 'go small' then do it properly;
https://www.youtube.com/user/c90adventures/videos
Laughing
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 23 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpineandy wrote:
What a big girl.
If you're determined to 'go small' then do it properly;
https://www.youtube.com/user/c90adventures/videos
Laughing


Impressed Pepperami is impressed so much his blouse blew off Clapping
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RodYork
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PostPosted: 17:28 - 05 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpineandy wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
Pretty much established that one of the best proper "adventure" bnikes you can get is a TTR250.

Could never be regarded as powerful but you can lift one out of a ditch.


Isn't It a trail bike rather than an adventure bike?
I thought Adventure/dual sport bikes were more about being touring bikes that wouldn't get stuck in the wet camp-site field Confused


The TTR's can be adapted with larger tanks and racks to become light adventure bikes. For my money- I think they are great bikes. that fit the bill regarding 1.Cost 2.Lightness 3.Maintainance 4.Ease of repairs when on the road 5.petrol consumption 6.Part availability.

The TTRS have been used by loads of serious adventure travellers.
When I have filmed trips (shaw2shore.co.uk)- I anticipate travelling 200/250miles per day, as I have to stop regularly to film etc.
This mileage could easily be achieved on a 250cc bike...Im on your side!
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TheDonUK
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 06 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

And that is absolutely fine. It all depends what you want out of touring.


And there is the rub, what you want out of touring, that said:

I have a little experience now originally touring on sports bikes around europe, so that would be the high speed runs, never dropping under 160mph for a tank, after that a XT600E to Mongolia and back and now the CRF250L from Chile / Argentina (I am now in Oaxaca, Mexico).

My experience has been that everyone does somewhere between 80-140kph on average when touring, My 250 is not particularly happy sitting at 140kph all day but it will. And it will sit very happily at 100-120kph all day and when you come to a dirt road or gravel you more or less keep going at the same pace and it takes it...

Each time i do a trip each time i tell myself next time I do it on a smaller/lighter/local bike, and this has been reflected in talking to all the riders I have met on the road with the big BMW's and large CC tourers, generally all but the hardcore wish they had something smaller and lighter.

I guess there is also a further differentiation between Touring for a week or two and multi-month/year trips.

With my fuel injected 250 and a mountain of shit strapped on the back i have very very rarely been left wanting power, except at crazy altitudes 5000+meters.

My 2 pennies
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 18:11 - 07 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheDonUK wrote:


CRF250L from Chile / Argentina (I am now in Oaxaca, Mexico).



Pic`s or it didn`t happen Wink
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TheDonUK
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PostPosted: 08:01 - 09 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

When i am back in sunny London I will do a write up, but with the exception of the shitty hard seat its been a great bike and the right choice for me.

Torres Del Paine - Chile
https://i.imgur.com/y2rF8Fc.jpg

Mt Fitz Roy - Argentina
https://i.imgur.com/TSrhTs2.jpg

Atacama Desierto - Chile
https://i.imgur.com/fkTTQnc.jpg

Salar De Uyuni - Bolivia
https://i.imgur.com/QwaPJf7.jpg

Salar De Uyuni - Bolivia
https://i.imgur.com/CsvZCPs.jpg

Somewhere on the Pacific Coast of Chile
https://i.imgur.com/zAutq3t.jpg

Medellin, Colombia
https://i.imgur.com/m4taUwL.jpg

Unloading the 250 in Panama
https://i.imgur.com/ZFq2ZGf.jpg

Oaxaca - Mexico
https://i.imgur.com/EnSxi2X.jpg[/img]
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 10:31 - 09 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Impressed Thumbs Up ................. Pah! who needs 12000cc inter-continental 200mph tourers Smile
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Fladdem
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PostPosted: 01:42 - 11 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazing! Thumbs Up

I can't wait to have a stab at messing about all over the place. I just need to figure out how I'm going to pay for a big long trip like that. Hence sticking to 4 days or so and in the UK Laughing

For some reason I've had it in my head for years that i want to go to Germany and maybe the Swiss alps on a trailie. For this, I blame Grenzgaenger on youtube, I used to watch their nonsense all the time when I was 15/16. My dad and I keep talking about going. Me on my MT5 and him on our C70, it'll take ages at 35mph but would be entirely worth it one day.
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kgm
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 11 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a huge fan of the 250 tourer idea. I really enjoy riding my CG125 and might well do some short trips on that next year. The reason I enjoy it is primarily the low weight and simple feel. It's more work making progress on it which makes it more engaging. I very much enjoy the larger bikes as well though when I feel like going fast but there's a different kind of excitement to be derived from riding a tiddler. I think it very much depends on the roads you choose though. Long open A-roads, even twisty ones, are more enjoyable on a larger bike where as the tighter ones and B roads are great on the wee bike.

The only troubles with the CG though - overtakes and steep hills (of which there are many here). Often I find I want to be travelling just a little faster than the cars on country roads (more corner speed mainly) but there just isn't enough juice left to get safe overtakes in very often. Also, for all the cars might be going a lot slower than I want to in the corners, they then accelerate on the straights and I don't have anything in reserve to pull past. It's also annoying slowing down as you climb hills, especially with traffic behind you.

This is where I think I would enjoy a 250. It would provide the same fun as the 125 but that little bit of extra power would make all the difference. Plus the low fuel cost is a nice bonus. I could go away for a weekend on the 125 and spend hardly anything. Modern 250s are nearly as economical too.

I think the best modern option at the moment is the CRF250L (ignoring the new Rally version). It's a bit porky too but with some mods I think it would make a great small tourer.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 11 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

meggark wrote:
I'm a huge fan of the 250 tourer idea
I think I would enjoy a 250. with some mods I think it would make a great small tourer.


Thumbs Up ... People are beginning to think my way Smile Thumbs Up
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 11 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

RodYork wrote:
The TTRS have been used by loads of serious adventure travellers.

They sure have, but 99% of 'Adventure Bike' riders are tourers that only leave the tarmac for a campsite or a pub/restaurant car park.
If I was doing a real adventure ride then a Trail bike (like a TTRS or CRF) would be my choice but for tarmac touring it's either a 'dual sport' or a full tourer as trail bikes can be a pain on tarmac.

This is where the confusion comes in discussions about Adventure Bikes. A real adventure across (say) Mongolia needs to a modified Trail Bike. A pretend adventure across the tarmac of western Europe doesn't, and that's what the majority end up doing.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 20:28 - 11 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't class mud plugging across outer Mongolia as touring. To me that is adventure or exploring or something like that.

If I toured America it would be on roads on a tourer. A Goldwing/Trophy/BMW.

If I wanted to do what TheDonUK has done, to me that's a completely different animal.
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