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NJD |
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NJD World Chat Champion
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Posted: 02:12 - 05 Jan 2017 Post subject: Re: Pre-Purchase Checks on Bike - How Far Is Too Far? |
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RE Checks: Since you're going to be test riding the thing I'd turn up, make sure the tyre pressures are correct, hand over monies because "if you crash you buy" and then go for a spin. In whatever order you like. I'd expect that mechanical inspection when buying a bike is the biggest thing and anything else thereafter won't matter. You'll be able to tell if it is or isn't for you during the ride and also use the time to spot any niggles, if there are any and then make your mind up upon return as to if you want to buy or not.
I'd say the more checks you want to do the sooner I'd want the money. In truth it's a commuter hack not a used supercar, accept it for what it is and do jobs as and when they, if they do, need doing. As above if the engines in good nick once you've gone for a spin I fail to see what else there is to take your time over? Sure do the small checks: tyre tread depth, sprocket condition so on throughout the consumables. Parts should be readily available and cheap enough anyway so with an ER5 I can't see a job that could come back to bite you re costs, simple as bikes come I'd say.
..
Front forks: compressed and rebound to ensure no oil loss through seals. Ensure forks not pitted.
Exhaust: use flashlight to inspect the bit that goes directly into the engine as I found it the most manky on the ZR out of the entire system. Otherwise just eyeball and ensure isn't blowing (cup hands around it to check and you can feel it if it is while the bikes running).
Ride straight: find a quiet road while out and about and look down, take your hands of the bar and see if the bike goes to one side. I'm sure there's other methods.
..
Can't really think of anything else to say.
Turn up, as I've been advised in the past, with a wad of cash in hand and hopefully sellers eye will implode and you'll get a deal. Probably start of with an offer rather than the entire amount ie: keep x amount in one pocket and x amount in the other. "This is what I'd be happy to part with right here right now, you want it or not?" and so forth. ____________________ The do it all, T̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶r̶o̶k̶e̶n̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶,̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶i̶g̶ ̶l̶u̶m̶p̶,̶ ̶C̶h̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶N̶o̶o̶d̶l̶e̶ |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Posted: 10:25 - 05 Jan 2017 Post subject: Re: Pre-Purchase Checks on Bike - How Far Is Too Far? |
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Falco wrote: | an eBay auction |
So, you're viewing it before bidding?
Falco wrote: | is there anything to loose by offering to pay for it on the spot |
Nope, go for it. If you're expecting a test ride, then the seller will (if they have any sense) insist on the amount of cash in hand that they really want for the bike anyway. Ask this beforehand, don't assume that you'll be offered a test ride on the basis of your cheeky chappy attitude.
If you like it after riding it, ask if they're happy to just keep the money and you keep the keys. As a seller, I'd prefer real cash that's already in my hand over some fantasist bidding then (maybe) showing up and trying to haggle down from there.
If the seller knocks back your offer, or if their expectations exceed what you want to pay, don't write the bike off. Feel free to go home and then bid less, or to contact them again after the auction closes and see if they've been gypped by their "buyer".
Just keep a firm lid on what you're prepared to pay - don't overvalue the bike just because you've put time into inspecting it. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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wr6133 |
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wr6133 World Chat Champion
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Posted: 10:28 - 05 Jan 2017 Post subject: Re: Pre-Purchase Checks on Bike - How Far Is Too Far? |
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Falco wrote: |
But how far is it reasonable to go? I don't want to be an unreasonable buyer ("tyre kicker" is the phrase I think), nor do I wish to start disassembling the bike, however I would like to see under the fairings, maybe even the top of the engine where the spark plugs and cable runs are. Unreasonable? |
Anything that can be checked without removing bolts I'd say is fair game. If you get to the point where you want to actually unbolt shit then I'd think it's because the stuff you can see has left such a poor impression it's probably not worth buying.
If I'm looking to buy I'll usually check.
Overall cosmetics (gives an idea of how it's been cared for)
Tyres (Condition and level of tread)
Wheels (buckles,jam front between legs and rag handlebars about to test head bearings)
Discs and pads (meat on both, discs cost alot)
Rear shock (condition, bounce arse end to ensure works)
Forks (stanchions, bounce it up and down hard to ensure seals don't piss out)
Chain (another good indicator of sellers maintenance ability)
Oil Level
Exhaust (general condition)
Ensure bike is cold, start it. (listen for unwanted noises, exhaust blows, etc)
Check all lights.
Finally if seller allows, ride it, work up and down the box and try to give each gear a handful to make sure they don't jump out.
Falco wrote: |
On a related note, the bike is on an eBay auction, is there anything to loose by offering to pay for it on the spot (assuming everything checks out)? |
I bought my current GSXR while it was on an eBay auction. Made an (insultingly low) offer backed by pulling out a fat wad of banknotes and mentioning how unreliable eBay auctions can be. It worked....... try it, worst seller can say is no and then you can just bid on the auction if you still want it. |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Posted: 12:21 - 05 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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For those wanting to gazump OP, presumably it's one of these two:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm//262783937723
Looks honest enough, consumables seem fine, but a short MOT and I'd be concerned that the seller's factoring the full price of what he's spent on it into the reserve price and his expectations of what constitutes a TIEM WASTAR.
Also, it has a history of "fluctuation of brake effort", the notorious ER5 worn drum, which looked to have been bodged from a fail to an advisory in 2015. It passed in 2016 with no advisory, so I'd want to be sure that it actually had the drum sorted or replaced, rather than just taken in for a Mate's MOT.
Piece of wood, centre stand, get the rear clear in the air and feel for pulsing in the rear brake pedal. I'd walk away if there's any hint of it, or reduce my offer price substantially.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm//142233127982
It failed its MOT on a blown fork seal last year, which somehow got fixed on the same day. Perhaps by the testing garage who'd already got the seals in, but why come the mileage went up then? Bounce the forks thoroughly, check carefully for any sign of oil in case it was just wiped down and packed out with grease. Check again thoroughly after riding - I got stung by this on my Ninja, on seals that had ostensibly been replaced by a dealer (Jim Allan in Falkirk, welcome to my shitlist). Emptor needed to caveat harder. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Monkeypony |
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Monkeypony World Chat Champion
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Posted: 12:41 - 05 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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The chap who purchased my previous bike didn't even bother to start it!
Just pressed cash monies into my palm and loaded it onto his van.
Which led me to believe that either the gentleman was a loon, or I'd rather underestimated the market value of the bike!! ____________________ Current bike - 2018 H2-SX, 2004 SV1000s, 2016 Aprilia RSV4 RF, 2017 Sherco SERF 300, 2003 Suzuki DRZ400 (stolen - AY53 JUU) |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Falco |
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Falco Traffic Copper
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Posted: 13:09 - 05 Jan 2017 Post subject: Re: Pre-Purchase Checks on Bike - How Far Is Too Far? |
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wr6133 wrote: | Anything that can be checked without removing bolts I'd say is fair game. If you get to the point where you want to actually unbolt shit then I'd think it's because the stuff you can see has left such a poor impression it's probably not worth buying.
If I'm looking to buy I'll usually check.
Overall cosmetics (gives an idea of how it's been cared for)
Tyres (Condition and level of tread)
Wheels (buckles,jam front between legs and rag handlebars about to test head bearings)
Discs and pads (meat on both, discs cost alot)
Rear shock (condition, bounce arse end to ensure works)
Forks (stanchions, bounce it up and down hard to ensure seals don't piss out)
Chain (another good indicator of sellers maintenance ability)
Oil Level
Exhaust (general condition)
Ensure bike is cold, start it. (listen for unwanted noises, exhaust blows, etc)
Check all lights.
Finally if seller allows, ride it, work up and down the box and try to give each gear a handful to make sure they don't jump out.
Falco wrote: |
On a related note, the bike is on an eBay auction, is there anything to loose by offering to pay for it on the spot (assuming everything checks out)? |
I bought my current GSXR while it was on an eBay auction. Made an (insultingly low) offer backed by pulling out a fat wad of banknotes and mentioning how unreliable eBay auctions can be. It worked....... try it, worst seller can say is no and then you can just bid on the auction if you still want it. |
NJD wrote: | RE Checks: Since you're going to be test riding the thing I'd turn up, make sure the tyre pressures are correct, hand over monies because "if you crash you buy" and then go for a spin. In whatever order you like. I'd expect that mechanical inspection when buying a bike is the biggest thing and anything else thereafter won't matter. You'll be able to tell if it is or isn't for you during the ride and also use the time to spot any niggles, if there are any and then make your mind up upon return as to if you want to buy or not.
I'd say the more checks you want to do the sooner I'd want the money. In truth it's a commuter hack not a used supercar, accept it for what it is and do jobs as and when they, if they do, need doing. As above if the engines in good nick once you've gone for a spin I fail to see what else there is to take your time over? Sure do the small checks: tyre tread depth, sprocket condition so on throughout the consumables. Parts should be readily available and cheap enough anyway so with an ER5 I can't see a job that could come back to bite you re costs, simple as bikes come I'd say.
..
Front forks: compressed and rebound to ensure no oil loss through seals. Ensure forks not pitted.
Exhaust: use flashlight to inspect the bit that goes directly into the engine as I found it the most manky on the ZR out of the entire system. Otherwise just eyeball and ensure isn't blowing (cup hands around it to check and you can feel it if it is while the bikes running).
Ride straight: find a quiet road while out and about and look down, take your hands of the bar and see if the bike goes to one side. I'm sure there's other methods.
..
Can't really think of anything else to say.
Turn up, as I've been advised in the past, with a wad of cash in hand and hopefully sellers eye will implode and you'll get a deal. Probably start of with an offer rather than the entire amount ie: keep x amount in one pocket and x amount in the other. "This is what I'd be happy to part with right here right now, you want it or not?" and so forth. |
Cheers for the advice, I'm aiming not to get a bike with less work needing done to it than my last one, or at least, being aware of that when I buy it this time. Appreciate the reality check on the check list of what it is worth checking
Rogerborg wrote: | Falco wrote: | an eBay auction |
So, you're viewing it before bidding?
Falco wrote: | is there anything to loose by offering to pay for it on the spot |
Nope, go for it. If you're expecting a test ride, then the seller will (if they have any sense) insist on the amount of cash in hand that they really want for the bike anyway. Ask this beforehand, don't assume that you'll be offered a test ride on the basis of your cheeky chappy attitude.
If you like it after riding it, ask if they're happy to just keep the money and you keep the keys. As a seller, I'd prefer real cash that's already in my hand over some fantasist bidding then (maybe) showing up and trying to haggle down from there.
If the seller knocks back your offer, or if their expectations exceed what you want to pay, don't write the bike off. Feel free to go home and then bid less, or to contact them again after the auction closes and see if they've been gypped by their "buyer".
Just keep a firm lid on what you're prepared to pay - don't overvalue the bike just because you've put time into inspecting it. |
Yes on inspection before bidding, I'm not quite that naive.
Test ride has been provisionally agreed upon with £300 in hand, though seller claims he would rather have £600 but since it is such a pain getting that amount out just to put it back in if no sale, he will be happy to hold £300 and bona fides of insurance (purely for my convenience of course). Red flag?
Still waiting for final conformation of inspection/ride and an address to go to.....
Rogerborg wrote: | For those wanting to gazump OP, presumably it's one of these two:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm//262783937723
Looks honest enough, consumables seem fine, but a short MOT and I'd be concerned that the seller's factoring the full price of what he's spent on it into the reserve price and his expectations of what constitutes a TIEM WASTAR.
Also, it has a history of "fluctuation of brake effort", the notorious ER5 worn drum, which looked to have been bodged from a fail to an advisory in 2015. It passed in 2016 with no advisory, so I'd want to be sure that it actually had the drum sorted or replaced, rather than just taken in for a Mate's MOT.
Piece of wood, centre stand, get the rear clear in the air and feel for pulsing in the rear brake pedal. I'd walk away if there's any hint of it, or reduce my offer price substantially.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm//142233127982
It failed its MOT on a blown fork seal last year, which somehow got fixed on the same day. Perhaps by the testing garage who'd already got the seals in, but why come the mileage went up then? Bounce the forks thoroughly, check carefully for any sign of oil in case it was just wiped down and packed out with grease. Check again thoroughly after riding - I got stung by this on my Ninja, on seals that had ostensibly been replaced by a dealer (Jim Allan in Falkirk, welcome to my shitlist). Emptor needed to caveat harder. |
I am agog! Roger's google-fu has failed?! I did look at the first one, but the seller didn't bother to respond at all, so that was that.
I was interested to learn you can check MOT histories. The one for the bike I am looking at makes an interesting read. For those wishing to check for themselves it can be found here (though I'll thank you not to "gazump" me).
In short: advisories for the last couple of years for "juddering brakes" both front and rear (though nothing at all this year), a fail for a low headlight (which I don't rate), bike mysteriously looses ~15K miles between 2011 and 2012. But the most interesting is the 2006 result where it failed thoroughly on a variety of things after acquiring close to 130K miles in one year and then immediately passed the same day . Fixed in garage on the day (they had all those parts?) or a bit suspicious? |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Posted: 14:16 - 05 Jan 2017 Post subject: Re: Pre-Purchase Checks on Bike - How Far Is Too Far? |
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Falco wrote: | I am agog! Roger's google-fu has failed?! |
Oh, an ER500.
That one has polished up well, and has exactly the extras that I'd want.
The 2006 MOT is likely just have been a typo, even a courier probably won't have done 127,000 miles in a year. Those same-day fixes aren't suspicious, they're just electrics and bleeding the front brake.
That 2011 MOT mileage is a bit hooky though, and it's apparently done 0 (well, -0.8) miles since the last MOT - how did he get it home?
Even if the mileage is legit it's considerable, so approach with caution and judge on its actual condition - I'd want to check that "slightly juddering" rear brake, as above.
But that mileage will put some bidders off, so if it's cheap enough and still runs well, why not? ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Falco |
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Falco Traffic Copper
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Posted: 14:34 - 05 Jan 2017 Post subject: Re: Pre-Purchase Checks on Bike - How Far Is Too Far? |
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Rogerborg wrote: | Falco wrote: | I am agog! Roger's google-fu has failed?! |
Oh, an ER500.
That one has polished up well, and has exactly the extras that I'd want.
The 2006 MOT is likely just have been a typo, even a courier probably won't have done 127,000 miles in a year. Those same-day fixes aren't suspicious, they're just electrics and bleeding the front brake.
That 2011 MOT mileage is a bit hooky though, and it's apparently done 0 (well, -0.8) miles since the last MOT - how did he get it home?
Even if the mileage is legit it's considerable, so approach with caution and judge on its actual condition - I'd want to check that "slightly juddering" rear brake, as above.
But that mileage will put some bidders off, so if it's cheap enough and still runs well, why not? |
I noted that it is being sold by one of your (distant) compatriots. The 2006 millage did seem....excessive.
Just out of curiosity, why would that happen with the millage in 2011? new clocks? winding the clocks back?
I'd guess it went back in a van? But maybe I just want the guy to be on the level. As for the millage, it is high, but not high enough that I can't imagine it being in good shape if well cared for. We shall see what state it is in tomorrow.
Thanks for the advice (ib4 workshop thread "how do I stop my brakes from juddering") |
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Azoth |
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Azoth Brolly Dolly
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Posted: 14:42 - 05 Jan 2017 Post subject: Re: Pre-Purchase Checks on Bike - How Far Is Too Far? |
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Falco wrote: |
I was interested to learn you can check MOT histories. The one for the bike I am looking at makes an interesting read. For those wishing to check for themselves it can be found here (though I'll thank you not to "gazump" me).
In short: advisories for the last couple of years for "juddering brakes" both front and rear (though nothing at all this year), a fail for a low headlight (which I don't rate), bike mysteriously looses ~15K miles between 2011 and 2012. But the most interesting is the 2006 result where it failed thoroughly on a variety of things after acquiring close to 130K miles in one year and then immediately passed the same day . Fixed in garage on the day (they had all those parts?) or a bit suspicious? |
It looks like the current owner has mostly been polishing it and not riding, while one or two of its previous owners has ridden it to hell and back. The mileage confuses me too. However, given the screen and the top box, I would say someone rode it a lot at some point. Check that the engine number matches the one on the V5C. Couriers used to swap them out instead of fixing or repairing them. I note that the engine has been sprayed black. How recently? What's that on the rear swingarm? Looks like something dripping down it. Is the owner so desperate to get rid of this bike that they've tarted it up just for the Ebay photos?
That mileage, even if genuine (which is doubtful, going by the MOT history) is excessive. And the bike is far too shiny.
I really don't like it. Odometer reading at time of MOT (July 2016): "49,721 miles". Current miles on clock in Ebay photo: "49720".
Go and ask the owner why he stopped one mile before he got to the MOT station to take all these photos of his bike in July last year. ____________________ Safety in numbers |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Posted: 15:17 - 05 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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Insightful, but I honestly wouldn't bother to ask the owner any of the above, since lies only cheapen both parties. Just check the docs against the bike, and go by how it looks, sounds and rides. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Posted: 01:32 - 06 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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M.C wrote: | Tawny wrote: | Can you explain a bit more about why you say this? |
Sure, it was the first big bike I rode, and I found it utterly bland. It handles ok, the brakes are dire, worst of all it was just so soulless. As you're comparing it to the MT-03, they produce the same amount of power, the ER5 has an extra gear but I was still struggling to get much over 70 out of it. They're old bikes, I genuinely can't think of anything I'd rather not have. |
OK, fair enough. But it sounds like the one you rode was broken. The ER5 I rode pulled hard straight over 100 - so hard it was difficult to hold the bars. And the handling was absolute precision stuff around the bends. Not second-guessing you here. I'm not the biggest fan of that bike.
Quote: | In case you think it's inexperience that led to that conclusion, an experienced friend who had a GPZ for years (same engine obviously), had similarly negative things to say about it... he said it was like a diesel |
Not saying it was inexperience at all, but I was curious because you would be comparing it with your current bike, and the ER5 in normal tune, unrestricted, with clean and balanced carbs, massively outperforms the MT03. The big problem with the ER5 IMO is making it run as Kawasaki intended. Perhaps my impression of the ER5 differs from yours because I came from a CG125 to that bike, so I was happy to ride it to the limit everywhere.
The brakes ARE shocking, though. Then again, from CG to ER5, no real difference... Although from Bandit (my test bike) to ER5, the brakes are a death trap. ____________________ Safety in numbers |
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Posted: 01:49 - 06 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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Well I rode two so maybe they were both broken? Yeah the handling confused me, it felt alright but the bike didn't encourage you to do any exuberant cornering. I wouldn't agree it massively outperforms the 660 single, quite the opposite based on the ones I rode (maybe they were good when new).
On paper they're similar but coming from an XR125 (same engine as the CG), apart from the initial pull away it failed to do anything exciting or memorable. I also did my test on a Bandit and by comparison that was amazing. |
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Azoth Brolly Dolly
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Posted: 01:57 - 06 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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M.C wrote: | Well I rode two so maybe they were both broken? Yeah the handling confused me, it felt alright but the bike didn't encourage you to do any exuberant cornering. I wouldn't agree it massively outperforms the 660 single, quite the opposite (based on the ones I rode).
On paper they're similar but coming from an XR125 (same engine as the CG), apart from the initial pull away it failed to do anything exciting or memorable. I also did my test on a Bandit and by comparison that was amazing. |
Yes, it's an odd coincidence. I rode an ER5 that worked as intended, and it was manic and unstoppable between 60 and 90 - really strong acceleration between those speeds, and strong acceleration above 90 (although it felt uncomfortable above that). Then again, I never took it out without exceeding 90mph. Every ride was an 'Italian tune-up', and it was really responsive through the throttle, although the cable broke once. An ER5 that works is... well, really good to ride. It should always fly past 100mph. On the other hand, I couldn't get the 660 Yamaha to go beyond 85 without really wringing its neck (to be fair it was a very high mileage hired bike). I would say the GPZ500S and ER5 have difficult to maintain engines... I'd be happy to strip down and rebuild a Yamaha single any day but not the EX500s. ____________________ Safety in numbers |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 7 years, 110 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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