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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
Joined: 29 Sep 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 00:44 - 10 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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ThatDippyTwat wrote: | If one of the lads I work with can ride twice a day to and from work, then anyone can. No idea how he got a CBT, he's utterly terrified of corners and roundabouts, you can see him fighting the bike all the way around. He's also scared of any speed over 40, being overtaken, overtaking... You get the idea. He's been like this, and been riding 5 days a week for nearly 4 years.
If he can do it, you can. He's older, and his brains probably mush from being hit a hell of a lot, so he doesn't learn the proper way to ride a bike. You sound plenty smart enough to figure it out, go practice, and above all, enjoy it, you don't have to go fast to have fun. |
I worked with someone similar, he was autistic I think. It's why you should have to take a test at some point (rather than endlessly riding on L plates). |
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Alpineandy |
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Alpineandy World Chat Champion
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andyscooter |
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andyscooter World Chat Champion
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Rupertina |
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Rupertina Derestricted Danger
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 13:19 - 10 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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Huh, that is a big case of pre-ride nerves.
Best way to deal with that might be to slip in a quickie do unplanned rides. Just woman-up, gear-up and go for a quick ride, even if it's only round the block. Note that you are not dead, then build on that.
I would stress that your Eliminator isn't the best tool for learning on, and will be particularly tricky at low speed, so don't feel bad if you drop it. You might even be as well getting it out of your system.
You will get better, and you will enjoy it, but only if you - oh lord - stop thinking and start riding. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Kaya75 |
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Kaya75 Trackday Trickster
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 13:30 - 10 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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Tbh I think you would find a CG, MSX easier to be at one with - even a VanVan - VanVan's look fun and a kind a beach type bike that are a bit cruiseresque (maybe?) without the mad riding configuration.
Regardless, respect for sticking to "your" bike, and your attitude. Lots of good advice in this thread and hopefully you'll see that nerves are a natural part of riding, the trick is to accept nerves and not let nerves get in the way of confidence on the road, which of course comes with practice / experience.
Extraordinary things make us nervous, Flying petrifies some people but for air crews its a daily occurrence. I had a really bad motorway accident in a car years back and it took me a good couple of years to get over the PTS when driving -took me a good twelve months to get back on a motorway. Make riding normal and then watch out for over confidence!
All the best on your journey ____________________ ybr125 Sold, GSF600 K1 Bandit (For Sale), FJR13000 gen2. |
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha |
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha World Chat Champion
Joined: 22 Nov 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 13:32 - 10 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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Yeah stop being such a neurotic puff ya big lezzer.
But really - ride 'em cow girl. We've only got so much nice in us - after that it's gloves off, tough love, and out come the roofies. ____________________ "Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."
Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125 |
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Alpineandy |
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Alpineandy World Chat Champion
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Gosties |
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Gosties Two Stroke Sniffer
Joined: 20 Jun 2015 Karma :
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Pigeon |
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Pigeon World Chat Champion
Joined: 27 Sep 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 23:09 - 10 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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A lady at work did her CBT about 3 months ago.
Every time before getting on the bike since, shaking, white as a sheet.
Her nerves were truly debilitating.
It took a while to get the confidence, but she's loving it now.....in -5c weather and still loving it
You are perfectly normal, cut yourself some slack, give yourself a lot more time and a lot less personal pressure. Start of with small wins, make steady progress to build confidence.
OR
Woman up and give yourself a damn good talking to. Whichever works for you Personally, I've not responded too well to the shouty approach as it creates frustration and anger. But strokes for folks. |
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SixFeetOfMan |
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SixFeetOfMan L Plate Warrior
Joined: 10 Jan 2017 Karma :
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Posted: 23:39 - 10 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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I'm in almost exactly same situation, well, minus stressing too much .
34 y/o, 16 years driving, did my CBT ~2 weeks ago, bought cbf125 same day and I'm riding it every not rainy day since. Mostly afternoons when traffic dies out.
Try riding late evening on empty city roads. Great practice of everyday manoeuvres without stress caused by cars sitting right behind you etc.
Peak time commuting is stressful, as everyone is in a rush.
Wait with commuting till you get confident on normal speed trough-the-city route.
Biggest confidence booster for me was practising emergency stops. |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 10:23 - 11 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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SixFeetOfMan wrote: | I'm in almost exactly same situation, well, minus stressing too much . [...] I'm riding it every not rainy day since |
So almost, but not quite, entirely unlike OP?
Welcome to BCF, by the way. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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pudder |
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pudder Scooby Slapper
Joined: 04 Nov 2016 Karma :
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Posted: 10:40 - 11 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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Theres a process you can use to help with overcoming anxiety:
Answer the following questions honestly to yourself. Write them out if it helps. Do it each time you go out for a ride.
Before:
What is the worst thing that could happen?
How likely do you think this is? 0-10 (10 is definitely going to happen)
What is the best outcome?
How likely do you think this is? 0-10 (10 is definitely going to happen)
What do you actually think is going to happen?
Then afterwards:
What happened?
What did you learn from it?
For example:
What is the worst thing that could happen?
I'm very nervous, fall off, hurt myself, and damage the bike.
How likely do you think this is? 0-10
8
What is the best outcome?
I'm fully confident, nothing goes wrong, and I enjoy the ride.
How likely do you think this is? 0-10
1
What do you actually think is going to happen?
I'm going to be nervous, I might have a wobble, or stall the bike.
Then afterwards:
What happened?
I went out, was very anxious,but overall felt ok once riding. I stalled at the roundabout, but I made it home without hurting myself or damaging the bike.
What did you learn from it?
I still need more practise, but I know I can go out for a ride and get home safely. I should focus on pulling away confidently.
The important thing is to be honest with yourself about it.
As with anything the more times you prove to yourself that you can achieve the activity without a bad outcome, the more confident you get.
This just forces you to acknowledge the fact that everything was ok. ____________________ 1993 Kawasaki AR50 (In bits) - 1984 Suzuki GP125 (Sold, but still ridden) - 1954 Matchless G3L (Being restored) - 2007 Suzuki Bandit 650 |
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 14:07 - 11 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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Not entirely sure about that rating scheme there pudder....
'Average' statistical risk of coming a cropper on a bike, is something in the order of 1 in 100,000 miles. Starts to get a bit skewed when you analyse it; BUT nice to know that that average is pulled down a heck of a lot by wee-end warriors doing less than 3ooo miles a year, and living GP fantasies on sunny Sundays, relatively having a lot of crashes for the few miles they do! Typical 'Learner', lacking experience and often confidence, is certainly, similarly, at higher than average odds of an off, BUT, also severity of that 'off' is significantly less.
Question; "Whats the worst that can happen?"
Answer; "I crash and DIE!"
Simple sliding scale of 1-10 does not cover it!
There's approximately 30million motorized road users in the UK, annually covering, around half a British (million, million!) 'billion' miles a year. Approximately 1% of them are by bike; so around 50,000 million bike miles... and about one rider is killed for every 1,000 million! Of whom.. a proportion aren't 'legal' licence holding riders on road legal bikes.... which up the odds for a CBT trained Newby on legal bike, BUT, actual statistical 'Risks' aren't in in 1-10 single figures! Odds, in the order of 1 in 1,000,000,000, if 10, is the certainty, the answer, empirically is err.. count the decimal places... 0.000,000,001? I think that's enough naughts! scoring ONE would be to over estimate the rsks by a million few times of or so! LOL!
Lets try a different question:
Question; "Whats the worst LIKELY to happen?"
Answer; "I crash into a car at a junction and REALLY hurt myself"
This, is a little more realistc... 'Seriously Injured' stats, would suggest that there's maybe 1,000, depending where you draw the line on what constitutes 'serious', probably even 10,000 serious injuries for every rider killed...... whilst this knocks a lot of naughts off the decimal..... its still a decimal! On the scale of 1-10? 0.000,01?
AND, we have small matter than around half of all Serious Injuries are associated with excessive speed... NOT a situation likely to be encountered by a learner on a 125, let alone a cruiser 125, which would struggle to achieve excessive speeds if you strapped a rocket to it's pillion seat!
Lets try a different question AGAIN:
Question; "Whats the worst LIKELY to happen.... TO ME?"
Answer; "I muff it up and fall off!"
NOW, the decimal point might shift a few more places. This is, for most learners, a statistical inevitability, and many will probably have a few such instances in their first 10,ooo miles or so.... so we MIGHT, if we are going more than a mile; say a half hour jaunt out that might cover 10 miles, get that decimal point up a few places to, what, 1-10? Maybe, 0.001!!!
AND severity? Well, odds is you wont die. Odds is you probably wont even be hurt enough to need a sticking plaster, let alone go to hospital! Bruise in the morning, and a little wounded pride!!
THIS does nothing to take away the fear or the worry of course, that is only natural... BUT it does display the gulf between 'actual risk' and 'perceived risk' and how much of that '"Oh my Gowddd" is almost utterly unfounded
Better questions to allay anxiety, to my mind, are to put the rsks into more appreciable context;
Would I change a light-bulb? I am more likely to hurt myself, behing electrocuted or cutting my fnger or falling off a chair, changing a light bulb than I am riding this motorbike to the shops! WHy am I worried?
Would I climb a ladder to wash the windows? That s more likely to put me in hospital with a broken leg, than riding a motorbike!
Would I think twice about laying on a beach in Benadorm with a gin spritzer, reading a book? Let alone renting a windsurfer or taking a scuba lesson, on a more 'activity' orientated holiday!
Ironical, so many people take risks like those, utterly without considering them... because the context is so different, the question is never raised, and the immediate 'Motorbikes! DAYN-JRUSS!" gut reaction, pre-conception never has a chance to raise its ugly head.
Motorbikes ARE dangerous of course... and compared to travel by car or aeroplane, which statistically, are incredibly 'safe' things to do, motorcycle safety 'isn't' all that wonderful; BUT, per participant hour, it IS a heck of a lot LESS dangerous than an awful lot of other activities, from DIY around the house, to holiday activities, to having a nice drink!
It is incredible, few stop to think of the 'danger' heading out night clubbing, or going for a quiet drink in a country pub, or opening a bottle at home to 'relax'... YET statistically, alcohol related diseases and injures, LIKE dehydration, having a spritzer whilst sun bathing, ARE all far more likely AND have as or higher severity than the risks associated with riding a motorbike... they JUST dont get thought about so often!
Rather than trying to do an industry standard RPN exercise on the job, to my mind, far better to allay anxiety by saying "Look, this safer than a going down the pub! Its NOT the big deal I am imagining!"
Contending with clinical anxiety, first rule is you will NEVER make it go away. We experience fear for a reason; its a survival instinct; you will never 'beat' your fears, and simply suppressing them IS'T healthy; its ignoring the natural warning; BUT its getting the fear response into proportion, and NOT behaving as if a man eating tiger is about to devour you, when tiddles the puddy can mews it wants some milk!
Its about getting it 'in proportion'; and here, compared to so many other 'risky'things we do every day and never worry about, riding a motorbike, REALLY shouldn't be something we need do 'so much'!
You're right; 'experience' and good experience of NOT crashing is damn good way to get the risks into some sort of proportion, and PROVE you can do it... but at the same time, NOT putting the risks into proportion with other things still leaves the worry room.
Tackle them, identify them, realist that worry room exists, BUT that it is't a gaping chasm of gloom and doom and carnage, you are on the precipice of, but a little cupboard at the back of a very big warehouse, where all life's 'other' worries are stored and FAR more likely to leap out the dark ad bite you in the bum! ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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pudder |
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pudder Scooby Slapper
Joined: 04 Nov 2016 Karma :
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Posted: 15:09 - 11 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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My first Teffing... So proud!
The point of the rating system isn't to do with how statistically likely the outcome is, but how likely it is the mind of the respondent. (As you touched on)
Anxiety is by its very nature an overestimation of negative outcomes.
The idea is that over time the worrier starts to realise that the negative outcome they were almost certain was going to happen never materialised. Thus a reduction in anxiety should result.
Add to that comparisons to the 'low-risk' activities you mentioned, and you would hope a re-evaluation of risk would take place. ____________________ 1993 Kawasaki AR50 (In bits) - 1984 Suzuki GP125 (Sold, but still ridden) - 1954 Matchless G3L (Being restored) - 2007 Suzuki Bandit 650 |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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onlyJaz |
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onlyJaz Scooby Slapper
Joined: 24 Sep 2016 Karma :
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Posted: 15:54 - 11 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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I've seen it mentioned a couple times but I am also in favour of hitting the carpark for a while. When I first got my bike, I was too nervous to even go out during busy times of the day so I'd go for a 30-40min ride around at 10pm when I knew it wasn't going to be very busy in order to build my confidence.
With the carpark, visualise the the layout however you want but what I did was imagine each bay had a car in it and tried to filter through them and make some sharp, slow turns. It helped me to get used to the turning circle of my bike ____________________ Yamaha YBR 125 |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 16:12 - 11 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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Huh, I haven't mentioned it in here, but I agree. First thing I did with my tiddler was to slip it out for a slow knuckle shuffle. You know, throttle control, also clutch and brakes.
Slow speed is the tricky stuff, and might have been skipped in OPs CBT. Definitely worth putting a few hours in. And again, expect to drop it. If you don't, it's a bonus. If you do, no biggie, you've got it over and done with. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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onlyJaz |
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onlyJaz Scooby Slapper
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Rupertina |
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Rupertina Derestricted Danger
Joined: 09 Jan 2017 Karma :
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Posted: 14:13 - 18 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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Thank you so much for all of the posts guys, all read and duly noted.
A bit of a development - I properly broached the subject with him indoors about getting a more suitable bike and credit where it's due, he was actually very supportive and said it's my bike to do with as I please. I'd only hinted at swapping it before, but I think he now knows I'm giving it some serious thought about what it'll take for me to get through my test in the future, he's okay with it. Once I sell the Eliminator, he's even offered to add to the budget to get me something nicer on the condition that I get out there and ride it, rather than have it festering in the garage (fair enough!).
Who knows, I may still be just as crap on a more suitable bike, but I've had a niggling thought at the back of my brain that a different bike might help me improve more quickly, it'll certainly make practicing manoeuvres in a car park easier due to the shorter wheel base and be a similar style bike to what my instructor uses for the DAS course.
So, time to do a bit of research! Next weekend I'm visiting a local shop to have a sit on a few and to see what feels right. I think I might need to source a lowered seat or find somewhere that can do it for me, so any recommendations (I'm on Hampshire/Berkshire/Surrey border) please send them this way! |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 14:50 - 18 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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That's great news, I'm glad to hear that Mr Rupertina is being supportive.
I'd be a little bit wary about lowering a 125. They tend to be quite saggy as it is, being designed for efficient Oriental people or whippet thin teens. You could run out of suspension travel quite quickly. Never mind, I just realised that you said "seat". Please excuse my Teffing.
A YBR Custom, if you can find one, should offer a decent compromise between low seat and nice handling. My first HN125 copybike had similar geometry and was very easy and forgiving to ride.
But if you know that you can get on with an MSX and you enjoyed it, I'd be looking for reasons not to get one. Used examples seem to be holding their value pretty well and owners love them. Even just throwing my leg over one made me grin like a loon. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
Last edited by Rogerborg on 15:27 - 18 Jan 2017; edited 1 time in total |
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Spamalittle |
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Spamalittle Scooby Slapper
Joined: 15 Nov 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 14:58 - 18 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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Good on you for sticking with it and looking to address the issues instead of cruising down the "ah well, wasn't for me" route.
Whilst changing the bike may not be the silver bullet that overcomes your confidence issues, it definitely can't hurt to try.
As for a new learner bike? Suzuki VanVan all the way. But then again I am exceptionally biased towards those wee things. Still one of my biggest regrets getting rid of mine and I'm seriously considering sourcing another to replace the CG125 for city riding (despite the CG having a far superior gear box).
My inseam is 30", my partners is 28" and we both had VanVans to start out on and could both flat foot them. Okay, they're not everyone's cup of tea but worth taking a look at in my view. ____________________ Story so far: RV125 VanVan > SV650 > Indian Scout > Triumph Thruxton, SV650 (again) & CG125 |
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ScaredyCat |
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ScaredyCat World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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B Button |
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B Button Two Stroke Sniffer
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 7 years, 125 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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