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Time-Serts helicoil or any other tricks?

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robertw95
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 22 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: 14:32 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Time-Serts helicoil or any other tricks? Reply with quote

Ok so have an issue with a bodge done by previous owner here and I'm looking for a solution. The gear detent arm on my 636 has had the thread stripped and then been drilled and an attempt to tap out to m8 before putting an m6 bolt through again and sump removed and a nut placed on the other side. The bike worked fine in the few trackdays I used it before it wouldn't go into first without jumping back into neutral. Has anyone any suggestions on how I get this back down to an m6 thread? Cheers
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craigT19
Jolly Green Giant



Joined: 09 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 15:24 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally i like time-serts but you cant always use them due to material thickness, a helli coil will probably be fine too.
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Bikes owned :- 2001 nsr125, 1999 zx6r, 2006 yzf-r1, 2009 xmax 250, 2012 yzf-r1, 2015 MT-07
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Last edited by craigT19 on 15:38 - 14 Jan 2017; edited 1 time in total
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 15:27 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpDduCVUy6w
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robertw95
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 22 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: 15:41 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time sert is my preferred choice the problem is im not sure of the size of hole required for an m6 insert the problem being its already been drilled to m8. I considered a riv nut Aswell I think that's what your talking about Craig and have ordered a few to see if it will work. Not a huge fan of helicoils especially not in this surcumstance
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do prefer timeserts, but unfortunately the drill size listed for that is .246" which is 6.24mm.
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robertw95
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 22 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: 18:09 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah that's the problem I thought I'd have... I Seen ones called big serts which they said is a thicker walled bushing to repair previously helicoiled holes which could possibly be an option
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or finish the M8 job?

Or keep the nut and bolt arrangement and fit a bronze bush in the hole?
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

robertw95 wrote:
Yeah that's the problem I thought I'd have... I Seen ones called big serts which they said is a thicker walled bushing to repair previously helicoiled holes which could possibly be an option


The video above gives a decent overview and pullout test of each, big-serts included.
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 18:35 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah; forgot about the big-serts. LMJGTFY - 7.36mm for m6.
But it says 8.38mm tap, so may be an option.


Last edited by G on 19:00 - 14 Jan 2017; edited 1 time in total
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robertw95
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 22 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: 18:51 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with going to m8 is the sleeve that fits over the m6 threads for the detent spring is for an m6 bolt. So if I read that right the drill size for big sert is 7mm but the tap is 8.35, im not sure how well the m8 hole has been tapped so not sure if there is enough metal to run the big sert tap through but it's an option.
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Ed Case
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Joined: 01 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my old CB250RS I've a professionally fitted 'TimeSert' in the spark plug hole and I've done 3 'Helicoils' myself in the head, no problems with any. I've had several people slag-off 'Helicoils' but I've found they work well.
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robertw95
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Joined: 22 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah a helicoil is decent enough in the right place but this is only for a crank case do 3/4mm ally and then it's into the oil pan so I wouldn't trust a helicoil in this instance
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331X2
Crazy Courier



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PostPosted: 22:15 - 14 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just received some E-Z LOK inserts to repair a previously hashed thread repair in an engine I'm rebuilding. The benefit of these is that they use standard taps on the outside of the insert so you haven't got to drop >£100 on a Big Sert kit, I paid £25 to the door for five M8 inserts which requires a 10.4mm drill bit and an M12x1.75 tap.

They came from here if you wanted to have a look, they also sell Time Sert and Big Sert kits for comparison. No link to seller etc...
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robertw95
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 22 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: 01:10 - 15 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those look spot on without spending the big bucks on a time sert. Thanks very much! Will let you know how I get on
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Rogerborg
nimbA



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PostPosted: 01:50 - 15 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThatDippyTwat wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpDduCVUy6w

<a-spooky-ghost.jpg>

tl;dw - Big-Sert by a "butt-ton", followed by Heli-Coil or recoil key-locking, then Time-Sert.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 13:22 - 15 Jan 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without seeing the offending object it's hard to say how I would approach this but from reading I think I would first have a look to see how much access there is through the sump, and if it's enough I would probably make a pull-stud similar to wheel nut studs, turn a shoulder on the base to locate in the now over-sized hole and the rest would be normal sized with a nyloc nut on top.
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robertw95
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 22 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 13 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

So finally got round to fitting the ez lock insert yesterday, tapped out to m10x1.5 however once the insert was in it was a loose fit and could be spun by hand. I re fitted everything anyway and it seems to be working as should. I was thinking of taking off the sump and possibly aralditing the insert from there to make sure it can't unscrew itself but with the bolt inside now am I right in thinking that will keep it in place?

Cheers
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