Domain being held by developer

[winz]

Hi All,

A relative of mine is having some issues with a web company who are taking the piss.

Back story, they had a simple HTML website up for years, decided to go down the CMS route. He wants to do some simple amendments and backups, but they wont give full admin access in the CMS.

I am getting him to dig out the original contract he had with the company, but we are going back some time now to see what was actually agreed

He has asked nicely to get control of it and they are basically saying no and wanting to charge an annual fee for some bits and bobs with I said I'd happily help with.

A whois check says the registered owner is the Limited company and the address registered to the office.

Is there a way to gain control this or is this something a lawyer would need to get involved with?

Cheers!
Winz
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Current Bikes: BMW K1200S
Previous: Honda CBR929RR, Honda CBR1100XX, Honda CB600F

[bamt]

What type of domain is it (e.g. .co.uk, .com) and who is the actual registrar for the domain (e.g. opensrs, godaddy)?

Check what the web design company is invoicing for each year. If they are invoicing for domain registration fees then that will help. Basically you need to complain to the registrar and ask them to revert control to your friend. They'll need reasonable proof that it actually belongs to your friend and that there is no reason for the web designers to hold on to it (like unpaid bills). Things like the original contract, invoices showing that your friend was paying the domain registration fees, contact details etc.

[Pjay]

Loads of these template hosting package sites used to do this, they'd register the domain in their name and then 'lease' it to you.
Trying to move your domain away to another host is fkin horrendous as they refuse to change ownership of the domain.

I think there are some that still do it, but it's frowned upon.

I'd just badger the fuck out of them until they sorted it.

[ScaredyCat]

It's the practice of charlatans. Was very common, shouldn't be now. If he's tried nicely, perhaps publicly shaming them will help but has this family member asked the right questions? If they're saying "No, you can't manage it on our systems" that might be because their systems aren't built to do that (especially if it's a small one man band type of provider, no fine grained permissions etc). So if they're saying no to that, has he/she asked "Can I transfer the domain out to somewhere I can manage it myself"? Is the answer to that question still "No"?

Check that, it's an important distinction.

Failing that part of the contract formed when anyone registers a domain name requires that they agree to participate in arbitration if someone asserts a claim on the domain. The problem is I don't think UDRP (Uniform Domain-Name Dispute Resolution Policy) really applies because there's, presumably, no trademark infringement. You could at least threaten it but it's not a cheap process. I'd suggest publicly shaming and naming them whereever possible would be a better, cheaper option - if they wont just hand over the domain. How much do they want to keep the existing domain name? Is it worth the effort, rather than registering another and 'starting again'? BTW, never register domains with webhosts because this is what they can do, which is essentially holding you to ransom.
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Honda CBF125 ➝ NC700X
Honda CBF125 ↳ Speed Triple

[winz]

Thanks for the helpful replies chaps!

It's a .co.uk domain with 123reg.

I'll find out if it's being itemised on their invoices.

As much as I hate dealing with 123reg, I think they will be happy to keep it with them and I was going to organise the hosting and set up their website. It's currently a free WordPress theme which they have disabled a lot of the admin settings

ScaredyCat, I am not sure what systems they have in place, from what I can tell they are a small outfit, so I who do a bit of branding, web and design work. Considering it's a very simple WP website, I bet they have some shared hosting through one of the big names, I think they are securing their future finances as they have been doing it for so long and haven't kicks up a fuss about it before.

He has asked if we can manage the domain ourselves and received a flat out no. Registering a new domain isn't really an option as it's a 3 generation family business and is all over their signage, vans etc.

I'll see if he has spoken to 123reg in the morning to see if they can do anything. But it sounds like it could be a bit of a pain.
____________________
Current Bikes: BMW K1200S
Previous: Honda CBR929RR, Honda CBR1100XX, Honda CB600F

[bamt]

Are you saying that the "ltd company" it is registered to is your relative, or 123 Reg? If the former, then if nothing else nominet will help you out.

123 Reg are generally OK as far as I am aware. Whenever I've gone into their panel it has seemed OK and their terms seem generally reasonable (but I've had an OpenSRS reseller account for about 15 years - since it was Tucows - so rarely use any other system). I wonder if there is some confusion about terminology going on. They may well have a reduced rate for a hosted system, so want you to pay more to go to "full featured". The current site may well use their own web design, so they won't let you take the "site" somewhere else (i.e. copy the design) but would release the domain if you wanted to register and host it elsewhere.

Or maybe they are being arses.

[winz]

The whois record says it's registered to the limited company's address through 123reg. So I think we might be ok.

I think they're being arses, it says the theme name in the WP dashboard and after a quick google the free theme shows up and it's pretty much identical. A little while back they wanted to change an image and add a slide to a slider on the home page and they said 'oh, you can't do that, it will cost xxxx'.

I might just wget the current site so all the images/text/css etc is all there and just add it to the theme and hope they can take control of the domain and get it back up sharpish.
____________________
Current Bikes: BMW K1200S
Previous: Honda CBR929RR, Honda CBR1100XX, Honda CB600F

[bamt]

If your relative's company name is on the whois, then if 123 reg won't play ball nominet will help.
Have you tried logging into the actual domain control panel (as opposed to the wordpress admin page, which is different)? If you can get in there, then you can change DNS to the new webhost (leaving the domain registration with 123 reg) or transfer it entirely.

https://www.123-reg.co.uk/support/answers/Domain-Transfers/Transfers-Out/transferring-a-uk-domain-away-from-123-reg-co-uk-2023/

[winz]

Ahh ok, thanks for clarifying.

Yeah he did without any luck. He then spoke to support and gave them 3 possible email addresses linked with it, but none of them were correct.
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Current Bikes: BMW K1200S
Previous: Honda CBR929RR, Honda CBR1100XX, Honda CB600F

[colink98]

if it is your friends company that is listed as the registrant then you can re-establish your contacts details for the domain.

https://secure.nominet.org.uk/flows/reestablish-identity.html?execution=e1s1

they will check you are the registrant and so forth.
they will charge you £12

when they say "re-establish you contact details" they are referring to the admin contact email related tot he .co.uk
you can have your friend change this to an email address over which they have full control (not an email address also managed by the hosting company who are being dicks)

once this is done you can request that 123 Reg reset the account which includes this domain by sending the relevant security checks via the listed Admin contact for the domain (which you changed with nominet in the previous step).

Once you have control over the domain you can then redirect it somewhere else and so forth.
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PCX125 (stolen) - CBF600 (current)
Ride it like you stole it.
ride sensible and not like an idiot and you wont get 6 points in one week.

[-]

I've reclaimed 3 x .co.uk domains in the last few months where web firms are playing naughty.

Nominet are very helpful. Who is the registrant on the Whois lookup?
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