Can Nerves Be Overcome And Confidence Built Up For Everyone?

[EViS]

Me and Mrs Evis passed our CBT two weeks ago and Theory test last week. Today we rented some bikes for the day to get more accustomed to riding on two wheels before the DAS in April. Spent the afternoon riding around towns, villages, A and B roads in the country. We both gained more much needed confidence.

However, after just 30 minutes of setting out, we had to stop as she was a nervous wreck. Bare in mind this was only our second time out on bikes (the CBT being the first). She continuously forgot all of her life saver checks (thankfully I was always behind so kept looking out), stalled fairly often and forgot basics (from even a car driving regime) such as turning off indicators. However, most crucially, whilst going around a blind bend, she either didn't slow down enough, didn't lean enough, or fully pulled her clutch in thus losing control, she swerved right out into the middle of the oncoming lane. Thankfully there was no traffic on this country road so no harm was done. However, it could have ended very differently!

Now, she's not a very confident car driver (hesitates at junctions, often goes well under the speed limit, etc) and barely drives as it is, which I assume doesn't help the cause. However, when she does drive, she drives my yank pickup which many 'every day' drivers would find off-putting. She also has a very determined personality of seeing things through, realises when she's winding herself up and finds logic to overcome it, and analyses her mistakes so not to repeat them.

I'll also add that she is under, and says she feels absolutely no pressure from my side to continue with the DAS and eventually get a bike. However, I don't want to spend my days riding fearing for not only my life, but hers too, knowing that she lacks so much confidence in all things automotive.

Is this lack of confidence (car and bike) something which will be overcome with more experience, or are some of us genuinely born to be better drivers/riders (more observant, rational, and mechanically understanding) whilst others will always be more of a danger to themselves and others?

As much as I want to keep encouraging her and being positive (i.e. not criticising as I hardly know any better!), I don't want to be giving false hope and confidence which may potentially cause more danger and huge guilt on my side should (touch wood) anything happen. On the way home she said she'd like us to rent bikes again in a couple of weekends to keep building on the confidence, which I am all for. She also said that maybe she should have a 1 on 1 lesson with an instructor prior to the DAS, again I am all for this. But, is an extra bit of tuition necessary or would the DAS cover this anyway seeing as we've booked a 'fixed fee' course which is for unlimited hours until we pass (would just need to pay for repeat tests)?

Any opinions or advice is very welcome .

[Lord Percy]

[M.C]

The problem with bikes compared to cars, is that if you're nervous with them they'll react nervously, and it'll snowball during the ride. I remember having to pretend I was confident when I started riding (as stupid as that sounds), and had better rides as a consequence.

Experience helps but if you're not a confident person (I'm not) it'll always be an issue IMO. I still have issues if I've not ridden in a while, or if I go through a long phase of commuting on familiar roads, then ride somewhere new.

I know I'm gonna get mocked for this

[hedgehugger]

I don't have a car licence, motorbike only.
What you've said is pretty normal.
Not everyone can take everything in from half a day on a bike.

You don't say how old you are, but as you get older, it can take longer for stuff to sink in.

Out for a ride on some hire bikes, after only doing a CBT, there is no way most people would remember everything.
For instance after my CBT, when riding I would practice a different element of control, until they all came together without needing to think about it.

She can drive, she knows lane positioning, road signs etc, so that's a bonus.

She just needs to practice and set her own routine for mirrors, shoulder checks etc.
Don't tackle anything to taxing to start, just pootle locally and practice what the CBT taught you.

Who leads? swap positions so you get to see it from both perspectives. If you follow all the time she'll get pissed off if you point out every forgotten check, or stall. Everyone stalls. Eventually you stall less.

[hedgehugger]

[Nobby the Bastard]

Do you ride pedal bikes? Do you shit yourself in traffic riding them?
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[temeluchus]

Perhaps the mrs should seek help for the irrational anxiety, to help her relax and get more confident on the road.

Go talk to a doctor.
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Some shite cruiser. Now with guns and FREEDOM!

[JP7]

It's quite normal to be nervous and a bit ham-fisted when you first start learning to ride. It takes practice and technique. But it does develop naturally and once you get the hang of it, it will all suddenly make sense and click into place a bit.

It may be worth letting her go off and ride by herself. I appreciate you'll be worried about her, and that she says she doesn't feel pressured by you, but she may be concentrating more on the fact that you're behind her watching every move she makes. She might be focusing too much on the fact that she isn't developing as fast as you are. We all learn differently. If she gets the chance to go off and learn by herself on some quiet roads, without feeling that she's being watched, that will be of great benefit.

When I was learning to ride my stepdad insisted on coming out with me one day. Every time we stopped he listed everything he thought I was doing wrong. By the end of it I was a bag of nerves, and I refused to ride with him again. By taking my time and learning at my pace I soon got the hang of it. Don't forget that CBT is just a minimum standard, the real learning starts when you hit the road by yourself.

Another option may be for her to get some extra training. Rather than a one-stop-shop five-day DAS course she might benefit from extra lessons.

[Enduro Numpty]

My wife has many great qualities but being in control of a vehicle isn't one of them. She passed her car test many years ago and hasn't driven since. Some people just aren't meant to drive/ride.

Maybe your wife would be happier riding pillion? I wouldn't give up on her just yet though. Maybe try some quiet roads or quiet industrial estates. Could be the different controls and the whole feel of a bike will take time for her to learn.

[bamt]

Mrs Bamt was pretty similar - to the degree that she only just scraped the CBT certificate in one day - and that because it only started to click in the last half hour. She went on to pass DAS first time with the normal couple of days for each module training.

It just takes some time to adjust, and for control to become muscle memory. Also, once things start to go wrong (e.g. stalling a couple of times) then you get flustered, and things get worse - so it's worth stopping to calm down (have a coffee or whatever) in those circumstances.

I'd not delay DAS because of this - the bigger bikes are easier to ride, as long as you are physically strong enough to man handle them for the pushing-them-around bits. You also have the benefit of an instructor keeping you safe.

With Mrs Bamt, I initially rode behind her protecting her back. Then we progressed in fairly short order to me riding in front; not having to navigate gave her one less thing to think about. You just need to keep an eye on her, and have a clear plan for what to do if separated (e.g. you'll wait just up the road, if you get separated then she should find a safe place and just stop, you'll find her or call her on her mobile).

[andyscooter]

Does your Mrs want to ride a bike

Sounds a bit like she has been made to as you want to

If she is nervous in a car a bike probably is not a good idea

Also renting one won't help her nerves

Her own bike if she drops it fair enough but a hire one will cost her so she will be nervous on it

And on top of that she is short so expecting to struggle
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[EViS]

Clearly a mix of opinions on this, and I appreciate answers may be based on everyone's own experiences of their own partners or individual interpretations of my description.

I've made it explicitly clear that I have no qualms about her not carrying on. But, being the determined person she is and hating failure, she's adamant she wants to continue with the journey. Hence, I'm a little uneasy, maybe unnecessary so, whether in this situation this is a good character trait or not .

The thing that puzzles me is that every now and again she'll drive my truck on her own, on Friday work gave her a hire car for a 450 mile round trip to visit a couple of clients, and earlier last year we both rode out in Vietnam (me on a manual, her on an auto scooter) over 5 days doing 120 miles per day on every conceivable road type/mountain pass being cut up by trucks on blind corners. All without any obvious issues. So is it a case of just not being born with that skill set, or is it a case of just not having done it (car and bike) enough to gain confidence, or is it me getting in the way. Or a mixture of all three.

To answer some of the questions;

I did my best to limit my comments as a) I'm just as inexperienced on a bike, and b) I didn't want her getting pissed off or even more nervous. We took turns to lead today and I spent most of the (second half of the) day leading. She did seem to prefer that.

We ride pedal bikes, and although stick to cross-country/MTB, we do need to ride on roads every now and again and neither of us have an issue with this but she will admit she prefers to keep off the roads on a push bike.

She definitely wouldn't be happy riding pillion, and I don't think I'd enjoy that either. May as well get in a car and be more comfortable.

We rented the bikes from the school we're training with. They were the same bikes we did our CBT on so at least we were slightly accustomed.

[goto10]

[Rogerborg]

You're all over the place. She's hesitant, she's determined, she's nervous, she's confident.

How are we meant to know if you don't? Pick a story and stick with it.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[RhynoCZ]

[Waaarrrggghhh]

Just requires time really.

Maybe she might prefer riding a scooter? Just twist and go, so she can focus on the important stuff like life savers and corner control, rather than clutch and gear changing.

[Derivative]

[Ste]

[mentalboy]

[Teflon-Mike]

Nerves are natural, nerves CAN be good. Fear is telling you there is something to be scared of. If you aren't a little afraid, you have probably missed the thing that is likely to hurt you.

TRICK is to get the nerves in proportion to the fear, and that in proportion to the real risk.

We are particularly bad at that, and bikers even more so in general.

However, there's a lot of 'random' going on in your original post; and its all from your point of view, another learner rider, commenting on another learner rider, neither of you with more than one lesson to your credit, its the blind leading the blind.. before you consider the emotional attachement you have, likely to even more skew both your perceptions.

CBT is Compulsary Basic Training, its the first lesson...

Now, when I was an instructor, I refused to 'teach' my kids to ride.... if it was pretty hit and miss whether they would do as they were told when I told them to tidy their room, or do their homework, would I really have much better chance when telling them to do or not do something important on a motorbike? I sent them to some-one else!!!

They actually listened to that some-one else, and were rather more inclined to believe them than argue, and so more likely to learn something....

And its the learning that's the key to allaying fears, getting anxiety in proportion and worrying enough, about the right things, than too much about everything.

Back up, start over, and take the random emotions out of the equation... which probably means YOU stepping out the picture, and worrying about your own learning and getting your own licence, let the missus do it for herself, and if she needs a teacher, get her a teacher! don't try being a teacher when you are still a student!
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[ThatDippyTwat]

It's all about practice. I'd suggest some more lesson to get the lifesavers sorted, and then practice, just go out and ride. Might be worth getting a cheap 125 so the worry about dropping it isn't there.

[UncleFester]

When i was between CBT and DAS - i found following someone who knew what they were doing helpful as i could concentrate on riding, not navigating. Following someone who has good road positioning and good general bike skills was a big help for me.

However neither of you have that yet.

You could both do with finding someone who has those skills and is happy for you to wobble along behind them whilst you learn how to do stuff.

Confidence will come with practice, when the riding becomes second nature, you'll find it much easier to improve everything else.
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Module 1 and 2 passed - October 2014. Happy owner of a 2017 Z1000SX, ex owner of a YBR125 / CB500 / VFR800.

[iooi]

[Azoth]

Lacking confidence in doing some activity in which you lack skill is natural. Nervousness when performing an unfamiliar and potentially dangerous activity is also natural.

Inculcating a false sense of confidence, faking it until you make it, is what's really unnatural. Confidence should come from real ability, real skill and real knowledge. Ability, skill and knowledge are acquired through instruction and experience.

Some people are slow learners and others are fast learners. Fast learners are elites, but slow learners can be capable of learning the same things as them, given more time. I suggest you put her in the hands of a real motorcycle instructor and have her take lessons. Don't involve yourself at all. You are her husband and you aren't, or oughtn't be, her instructor.

It's complicated by the fact that you have to be the man and she has to be the woman. That's bad for learning. Someone has to be the teacher and she has to be a faceless student.

[grr666]

There's a reason female bikers are few and far between.
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