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richard1964 |
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richard1964 L Plate Warrior
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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dydey90 |
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dydey90 World Chat Champion
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kgm |
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kgm World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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dydey90 |
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dydey90 World Chat Champion
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richard1964 |
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richard1964 L Plate Warrior
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Posted: 16:19 - 19 Mar 2017 Post subject: Licence |
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Still none the wiser. Maybe DVLA have balls things up here then! so ive been riding around since jan WITHOUT the proper licence!!!
So... i understand then that having 79(tri) next to the "A" category on my licence means that its a provisional?? where in reality i suppose this should NOT be here as I have unrestricted licence? e.g just the start and end dates in column next to it?
Like I said Im 52 (white by the way) lol,born and lived all my life in the UK, held car licence since early 80's took my unrestricted test while over in Cape Town for a year and passed, Came back to UK and gave DVLA all necessary documents to change my licence so I should be entitled to ride ANY size bike I wish.
what the f**k are DVLA playing at. |
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Bozzy |
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Bozzy Traffic Copper
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Commuter_Tim |
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Commuter_Tim World Chat Champion
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Posted: 17:27 - 19 Mar 2017 Post subject: |
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These threads pop up entirely too often.
Sucks to be OP, I'm hoping if I find myself in his situation that my original pass documentation and if I happen to find an old license that I've lost previously, it should be enough to prove my entitlements.
Law noob here, can the DVLA actually be taken to court over such matters? ____________________ The above post is most likely nonsensical.
I ride a Bandit 600... badly. |
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
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Posted: 17:46 - 19 Mar 2017 Post subject: |
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I'm not entirely certain that UK licnces do totally respect SA entitlements.
It may have changed since 1987, when I did my Pt1 Test with a South African lad who'd been caught riding a GSXR750 on his SA entitlement and was told to get a UK licence in a hurry; whih probably didn't mean pnning the throttle of his H100 on training and dissapearing into the sunset...! Had another at Uni, who was disaponted he couldn't ride a CR500 around Coventry like he did the field bikes back home, and was most uncompleentary about an XL125.... Is describng a SitIfrikin 'Mad' tautology, still?
However, the "Tri" restriction applied to the 'A' entitlement you have been awarded is for trikes and three wheeler, that until a couple of years ago were covered by car entitlement. Lots of folk have bee given it, when updating their car licences and think it means they can ride a Ninja-Busa-Blade without passing tests..... no, sorry, it doesn't, means they can drive a Reliant Robin!
So... would seem you have't been awarded full, 'solo' motorcycle entitlement... which may be a cock-up, but could also be because of the reg changes, and SA motorcycle test not, historically being recognized by DVLA, and clamp-down on 'licence tourists' who played the game a few years back taking lower standard tests in places like Portugal under EU rules, where recognitions did leave some loop-holes.
You might try argue the toss with DVLA... but if you are 52, you only have 17/18 years until your licence expires anyway.. I wouldn't be too optimstic of sorting it, before you have to send in doctor notes to say you dot have alziemers!
Alternatively; you can bite the bullet ad book a DAS course and do UK tests, which may be gauling, but, how bad and how quick do you want that entitlement?
As is reasoably high risk is that they pick up the plate on ANPR and the system does a data-base trawl if regstered keeper, and registered keeper's licence entitlement; you could get tugged ad loose ALL licence entitlement for riding other than in accordance, and you stand more chance of winning argument with DVLA by post, than you do copper with computer confirmed 'win' on the screen, at the side of the road.
Your call... but licence code, isn't a bike licence, its the trike/3-wheeler entitlement of your car licence. ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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richard1964 |
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richard1964 L Plate Warrior
Joined: 18 Mar 2017 Karma :
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Posted: 16:29 - 20 Mar 2017 Post subject: |
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Teflon-Mike wrote: | I'm not entirely certain that UK licnces do totally respect SA entitlements.
It may have changed since 1987, when I did my Pt1 Test with a South African lad who'd been caught riding a GSXR750 on his SA entitlement and was told to get a UK licence in a hurry; whih probably didn't mean pnning the throttle of his H100 on training and dissapearing into the sunset...! Had another at Uni, who was disaponted he couldn't ride a CR500 around Coventry like he did the field bikes back home, and was most uncompleentary about an XL125.... Is describng a SitIfrikin 'Mad' tautology, still?
However, the "Tri" restriction applied to the 'A' entitlement you have been awarded is for trikes and three wheeler, that until a couple of years ago were covered by car entitlement. Lots of folk have bee given it, when updating their car licences and think it means they can ride a Ninja-Busa-Blade without passing tests..... no, sorry, it doesn't, means they can drive a Reliant Robin!
So... would seem you have't been awarded full, 'solo' motorcycle entitlement... which may be a cock-up, but could also be because of the reg changes, and SA motorcycle test not, historically being recognized by DVLA, and clamp-down on 'licence tourists' who played the game a few years back taking lower standard tests in places like Portugal under EU rules, where recognitions did leave some loop-holes.
You might try argue the toss with DVLA... but if you are 52, you only have 17/18 years until your licence expires anyway.. I wouldn't be too optimstic of sorting it, before you have to send in doctor notes to say you dot have alziemers!
Alternatively; you can bite the bullet ad book a DAS course and do UK tests, which may be gauling, but, how bad and how quick do you want that entitlement?
As is reasoably high risk is that they pick up the plate on ANPR and the system does a data-base trawl if regstered keeper, and registered keeper's licence entitlement; you could get tugged ad loose ALL licence entitlement for riding other than in accordance, and you stand more chance of winning argument with DVLA by post, than you do copper with computer confirmed 'win' on the screen, at the side of the road.
Your call... but licence code, isn't a bike licence, its the trike/3-wheeler entitlement of your car licence. |
Thanks for the in depth info Mike... so it does look like that the DVLA have F****d up then by the looks of things. I did speak with DVLA before I sent my licence to them to be altered for a full bike entitlement and they did actually confirm that SA was one of the countries that they DO recognise the tests as it is almost identical to ours. Places like China / India etc the UK doesnt recognise the test as its a farce and easy to pass.. Looks like its time to battle it out with DVLA |
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tom_e |
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tom_e Brolly Dolly
Joined: 27 Feb 2016 Karma :
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AshWebster |
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AshWebster Brolly Dolly
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Posted: 18:21 - 20 Mar 2017 Post subject: |
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richard1964 wrote: | Thanks for the in depth info Mike... |
You must be... oh, you are new here.
Did you exchange your SA license for a UK one, or just send in your UK one in along with your Saffer bike pass in the hope that DVLA would add category A?
In the former case, then yes, I think you should have got A.
In the latter, I can't see anything that promises that they'll do so. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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c_dug |
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c_dug Super Spammer
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arry |
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arry Super Spammer
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tom_e Brolly Dolly
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arry Super Spammer
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
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Posted: 21:32 - 22 Mar 2017 Post subject: |
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arry wrote: | tom_e wrote: |
You can't it doesn't matter what you throw at them they'll tell you to fuck off, IIRC they done it to a couple of police riders and even with all the documentation to back them up they still said "Not our problem, redo your tests or stop riding". |
Citation needed /Borg but my understanding is that if you throw an official, genuine, licence at them as evidence they're hard pushed to refute it. |
Bureaucratic Bull & Red tape gymnastics verses British Common law.... I believe its a battle being raged since Magna Carta....
But I have a recollection that DVLA's law unto themselves, 'policy' over not accepting non-original documents was challenged 'sort of' successfully... though I dont recall where/when/what.
Argument was that DVLA's demanded level of 'proof' was higher than that of UK law, who 'do' accept both photographic 'evidence' as well as, not only accept photocopied documents in submission, but actually 'request' evidence in photocopy.
ISTR the crux was that if a UK court not only made ruling on photocopy evidence, but issued and expected photocopied court orders to be respected, then DVLA's policy not to consider photocopy was to place themselves above the law, demanding a higher level of 'proof'.
Ie: If a Judge issued court order against DVLA to say release records of who was the registered keeper of a car between certain dates, that order would be issued as a photocopy, the original order maintained in court records, then should DVLA maintain their arbitrary policy to NOT recognize photocopy documents, then that wouldn't be any defense against a charge of contempt of court.
As I recall, conclusion was about as convoluted as DVLA red tape; and they maintained thier 'policy' not to accept photo-copy 'with exceptions' where "providence" was not in dispute; eg officially notorised copies of legal docs... which gt them round any direct contradiction of BCL and demanding greater burden of 'proof' whilst offering ever greater ambiguity to pic and choose what they would accept.
c_dug_the_bastard wrote: | I passed my car licence recently and the examiner made a point of getting me to scan and save copies of my old licence, all pass certs for all tests. Old paper parts. The lot. |
Did the examiner 'sign' the photo-copies, and/or was there a checklist or anything on the pass cert you should have been given, saying what documents you 'surrendered'?
OTMH this was one of the linchpins; in so far that DVLA actually request and use 'photographic' evidence in conjunction wth the licence application, when they ask for a pass-port photo of the licence holder!! More they actually list who may 'notorise' on the back that it's a reasonable likeness, ie school-teacher, policeman, doctor etc!!! So a signed 'receipt' of surrendered documents signed by a Driving Test Examiner, aught be pretty irrefutable... and yet... they may still refute it!
So conclusion, if there ever can be one a far as DVLA are concerned is... they remain a law unto themselves!
arry wrote: | Best advice I'd seen is to state current licence is lost and then if there's bother you can mystically find it again. |
Practically? Yes.
In the myrad of red-tape gymnastics though; a) they no longer print all details on your 'hard' licence, and rely on thier own data-base.... scary enough to suggest you should NEVER surrender docs, kep all, esp at point of test, where you probably should 'elect' to submit paperwork yourself and keep your old licence & certs and get them copied AND if you can notorised as a true likeness of original, seen by notary... any-one on the list of folk that can sign a pass-port photo! before posting them off b) It's still no guarantee they will accept anything they dont choose to!
and C) when issued a replacement there is caveot in the covering letter that demands that you 'must' destroy the 'lost' original should it be re-discovered... offering a catch 22 that if you show a 'lost' original as 'proof', they may loose the argument to refuse to accept that evidence, but lay yourself open to having obtained replacement by deception!
Which reminds me... I really ought to destroy my that licence I lost in 1989, that turned up when my gran died in 2006.. (she was a bit of a bugga for stealing cloths to make up loads of laundry!)... But I seem to have 'lost' it again.. I know it's in the house 'somewhere' ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 7 years, 34 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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