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Advice on getting my first motorcycle (commute on highway)

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hcosteff
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PostPosted: 11:24 - 25 Mar 2017    Post subject: Advice on getting my first motorcycle (commute on highway) Reply with quote

Hi guys,

I'm thinking of getting a motorcycle to get to and from my work (about 15km/9.5miles).

I mainly want a motorcycle instead of a car because of the traffic, as its considered acceptable in my country to go on the shoulders near intersections and bypass the traffic. Also parking is a huge concern for cars, but its great for motorcycles.

At first i thought of getting a 250 scooter, but
my route would be going though a highway where the speed limit is 110kmph (68mph) and people often drive 120kmph (75mph) there.
I researched a bit and saw that 250 scooters have horrible acceleration and top speeds, and it would be difficult/dangerous to merge and drive on the highway.
Is this true for all 250 scooters?

So i started looking at 500 scooters which could go on highways no problem, but i read its not a good idea to get a heavy bike as a first bike.

I looked at other options, like 250 road bikes, but most of them have a top speed of 140kmph (88mph). (except for the ninja 250, which can do better)
My main concern is when I'm at 100kmph on the highway, and i need to accelerate quickly to get out of a dangerous situation, those bikes would accelerate too slow, leaving me in an uncomfortable situation.

What would you recommend for me?
My priorities are:
1) safety, incl on highway (things like acceleration and top speed are probably factors here)
2) price (under $5K used, hopefully much less) and gas mileage
3) helmet storage, comfort, style, etc


I would like to get general pointers and advice about my situation as well as specific bikes that would suit this situation.


If the scooters are an options, any opinions on scooters with 2 wheels in front like the yamaha tricity?
Thanks in advance!

BTW, the license i would be able to get limits me to 46 HP


Last edited by hcosteff on 11:44 - 25 Mar 2017; edited 1 time in total
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arry
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PostPosted: 11:33 - 25 Mar 2017    Post subject: Re: Advice on getting my first motorcycle Reply with quote

hcosteff wrote:

So i started looking at 500 scooters which could go on highways no problem, but i read its not a good idea to get a heavy bike as a first bike.


Difficult to really advise as I don't know what country you're in, conditions are like, or what bikes are available but I'll pick up on this specific comment.

Weight on a maxi-scooter really isn't much of an issue at all. It's not a big tall unwieldy machine. Centre of gravity will be relatively low and, in reality, they're not even really that heavy - albeit again, I don't know what conditions you've got where you are; for all I know, you might be constantly riding up and down sets of stairs and having to pick it up to lift it over walls Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:04 - 25 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that a 250cc+ scooter will be fine for 120kmph traffic.

When you say 250cc, I'm not sure which ones you're thinking of. Honda and Kawasaki do 300cc scooters (and the "Kawasaki" is really a Kymco Downtown 300), Suzuki do a 400.

Any of those will merge into traffic at least as well as most cars.

If you pick up some random Whang Dong branded Chinese 250, I wouldn't be so sure.

On the weight issue, if you're in Europe than you'll need to use a 400cc+ vehicle to get your A2 license. So by the time you have a license to ride anything bigger than a 125, you'll be used to it.

That's your first step, get the license. Then you'll be in a far better position to decide what bike or scooter you want.
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hcosteff
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PostPosted: 12:11 - 25 Mar 2017    Post subject: mileage Reply with quote

Another reason i tend to shy away from the 500ccs is gas mileage, isnt that a lot worse for them?
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arry
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PostPosted: 12:33 - 25 Mar 2017    Post subject: Re: mileage Reply with quote

hcosteff wrote:
Another reason i tend to shy away from the 500ccs is gas mileage, isnt that a lot worse for them?


I wouldn't expect it to be significantly worse, especially at speed. And over ~30km a day, I would be surprised if you even noticed the difference.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 25 Mar 2017    Post subject: Re: mileage Reply with quote

hcosteff wrote:
Another reason i tend to shy away from the 500ccs is gas mileage, isnt that a lot worse for them?

https://www.fuelly.com provides real world usage.
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 14:43 - 25 Mar 2017    Post subject: Re: mileage Reply with quote

hcosteff wrote:
Another reason i tend to shy away from the 500ccs is gas mileage, isnt that a lot worse for them?


I know a few t max owners that get a genuine 65mpg

I have owned two 400cc scooters and use the motorway on them happily

I also owned a 200cc and used that

It had a top speed of 75 mph
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 17:50 - 25 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

1/ We don't know where you live, therefore we don't know what licence regulations apply in your country.

2/ You are leaping in at the end, looking for a bike that will fulfill your PERCEIVED needs not at the beginning, and 'Can you RIDE a motorcycle?'

3/ When it comes to motorbikes, an actual motorbike tends to be the very LAST thing you need to worry about, not the first.

Cart before horse.. first up you need to be able to ride a bike. You may have a car driving licence and some nebulous notion that riding a bike is as easy as, well, riding a bike.... it isn't.. most folk need at the very least some basic training, and any presumption that because you can drive a car you 'must' be able to ride a motorbike, usually bring as many impediments as advantages.

Its a different type of vehcle, like a boat or a plane t s NOT a 'car' so dot presume you can jump straight on one and go.. treat it like learning to fly or sail, there's specfc skills you need to acquire, so aproach with an open mind, and assume you will need to do some learning.

Training is GOOD.. teaches you to do the right stuff right fro the start, and lessons is for life, not licences. Point is to teach you the stuff to keep you safe, which long term aught save you hurt and money.

Going it alone; buying a bike and learning by trial and error, usually means lots of error.... that tend to be rather painful, AND expensive where bikes are concerned..... fixing bent handlebars, skuffed paint-work, cracked panels, broken mirrors, ripped riding wear, dented crash hats, ALL tend to add cost to the lessons being beaten in with pain, and utterly ruin ALL our neat spreadsheet predictions of how much cheaper a bike 'should' be compared to a car.

Here in the UK, a gallon of petrol is aprox £6... that could take me 70 miles on any of my bikes from my 125 commuter to my 250 trials bike, to my 750 road bke, or even my 1000cc tourer (if it still worked!)

Power is rate of energy transfer.... fuel is energy, MPG the rate you use it, t's an expression of power used, rather than the bhp rating n the book that's 'peak' power available.

That's why, any of my bikes could give me 70 miles for a gallon of go-juice.... no matter what the brochure say.. because in the real world it s far more dependent on the rider and how much of the available performance they use than what the bike might achieve under standardized tests flattered by professional test riders for the brochure claims.

AND, matters little if the bike is lying on ts side, petrol dribbling out the over flows on the floor, for a 'silly little mistake' like fumbling it off the stand!

So, top of the list aught to be bike ridng lessons, and trying to get some learning to hopefully save you some pain as well as some money.

Next; legal/licence requirements. Bikes here need to be taxed, and MOT'd and insured, and insurance is frequently the largest single cost, often as much as an entire years worth of fuel, especially for a younger rider. Hence insurance costs are often as significant n the buying decission as MPG.. while you need a licence before anything.

Insurance consideration then begs consideration of security and crashes. Bikes get stolen. Fact. Before buying a bike, you are well advised to give a long hard thought to how to stop t being nicked, and if used every day for commuting and left parked n the same spot for hour at a time, THAT s where ts most likely to be stolen from. And you cant rely on factory fitted security like the ignition switch.. thieves don't have to even break a window to get at and pick that lock on a bike, and they can avoid even that, just lifting the whole thing into a van. Good chains ad padlocks and something imoveable to lock them to are useful here.

Onto crashes. Most places require a rider to wear a crash helmet, but little else. BIG topic of consideration here; and legal requirement for a crash hat does beg many to think that all they need do is buy ad wear a crash hat ad that's 'safety' covered. It isn't. What about the rest of your body? Jacket, riding jeans, boots? AND it's not just crash protection... you aren't in a metal box with a heater / air-con like in a car, you are out in the open, exposed to the weather. How do you stay cool? How do you keep warm? How do you stay dry? Here in the UK... rains a lot... water-proofs are probably THE best bit of motorcycle equipment you can buy!

So, where we got to:
1/- Training
2/- Licences
3/- Insurance
4/- Security
5/- Riding apparel

NOW, you might start thinking about actual bikes...... and that will likely take you back around the loop. If you have trained up on a twist and go 'auto' scooter, and start looking at manual gear motorbikes(or scooters! There are a few!) yo may have to re-visit the training! Likely you may also have to re-vist the licences too... I don't know of very many countries you can jump straight onto a 500cc powered two wheeler, without having first passed tests to ride a 500+ motorcycle....

In the US, some states I believe still provide motorcycle entitlement on a provisional licence, but AFAIK most now demand a rider's training course at the very least as well most a formal 'test'.

Here in the UK, and most of Europe, we have a 3 tier motorcycle licence divided up by capacity and power; with A1, allowing only bikes up to 125cc, A2 bikes up to 45bhp, and full A/A3 'any' displacement or power. AND you have to pass formal tests for any catagory.

Scooters are NO exception.

Scooters legally are a motorcycle. There is no strict let alone legal definition of what one is; notionally they are motorcycles of compromised 'step-through' frame design, with small wheels, and 'usually' a twist and go transmission, but as said, some have manual gears, and design variation is enormous.

Common miscoception is to call 'mopeds' which DO have legal defantion as a powered two wheeler of capacity less than 50cc and top speed usually less than 35mph/50Kph, 'scooters' and hence presume that all over 50cc scooters are 'mopeds' ad might be ridden on exeptions that are provided for mopeds.... but that is a misoception.... so back to the trainng and licencing IF you have worked on such misunderstanding and aren't trained or licenced for the motorcycle you want to buy.

Then back into the loop... security if considered probably applies well enough to most motorcycles; but some locks dont ft ome bikes, and a small wheel scooter might ot let you fit a disc lock or get a chain through its wheels and need more thought.

Insurance... can be frustrating and awkward as well as expensive; and here in the UK peculiarly perverse. Generally bigger higher performance machines cost more to insure, but, umber of smaller lightweight ones that are crashed by young idiots or who dont lock them up so they are easily stolen tends to attract a premium loading, and many mid-sze bikes are cheaper to sure than the smaller ones. But more expensive ad more sporty ones tend to be more expensive, and as often the largest single expense in the list, finding a bike that has ore affordable insurance can be a challenge and possibly the most crucial single challenge, that can send you round the lo many many times.

Riding apparel? Needs sorting. It doesn't last a life-time, believe me; it wears out, and needs replacing at intervals, same as the bike. hat needs figuring into cots, as well as petrol and tax and insurance and parking; and worth remembering that a crash hat is generally only 'good' for maybe two or three years general riding before its worn out, less if used more regularly and for every day commuting a year s about typical even for better premium hats... BUT they are still only 'good' for on crash..... AND the road doesn't discriminate. Hurts as much falling off a 1300cc bike as a 30cc one! And other traffc that doesn't stop to think before it doen't see you and knock you off sure as eggs doesn't stop and think "Aw cutesey lidduw bke, I'll wait till something bigger comes along to crash into!"

Biggest risks on a bike, are YOU the rider, where a bigger faster bike is merely more likely to let you find accents faster, i you are daft enough, then other traffic and the road, where, as said, they don't discriminate... its downt o YOU to watch out for your ow arse and try NOT falling off... eve with the 'best' protective wear, it STILL hurts, believe me, so try not to.... (get trained!)

But, conclusion of that is, that how much protection you should buy dosn't reall depend too much on what bike you buy. What's good for a 125 is probably as good for a 1250, if not good for a 1250, it's probably not enough for a 125....

NOW with that sorted... actual bikes are viable, AND differences between them, MIGHT be more or less significant... BUT

Worryng about gas mileage? Like I said,what the books say is irrelevant when bikes lying on ts side and 'gas' is trickling out onto the floor. Book qoted MPG's are vague at best, and how you ride the thing will make ore dfference than what the books say between models.... as aluded to, book says my 1000 shuld 'oly' return 35MPG.. but I can get as much a 70, or as little as 10 dependng on how I ride it.. the 125? Book says 'about' 90, but I can get that down to under 60 withut tryg too hard, I might get that up to over 100 if I tried very very hard, but I don't have that patience! Seen fifty, book says 50mph, but I an get anythng from 25 to 80, dependng on how ride it... and ths appls to almost ALL bikes....

So worryng about gas mils, and making comparisons by what the books and adverts say, is not a great thing. You are INCREDIBLY unlikely to get that quoted gas mileage, and it is far from garanteed.

Meanwhile; 'all in' whle fuel tends to be a pretty large chunk of all you spend n a year on a vehicle, its far fro the only thing you will spend, and bikes tend to demand a lot more, and more frequent maintenance than cars... I have had a Honda Cvic for the last six years, its needed on set of tyres in that time; gawd knows how many miles they last, tens of thousands, and they cost £30 each A full set is less than £120, which would just about put a pair of tyres and tubes on the 125, which as an 'ecconomy commuter' probably wont wear them out in a hurry, but will still only lat a fracton of what the car tyres will, and 10,ooo miles would be pretty good going. The Big bikes? I'm looking at £200 a pair for tyres, and I may get 3-5ooo miles from them on dfferent bikes. Thats NOT a lot compared to the cars. And its miniscule when tyre for big bikes or sports bikes are lucky to last eve that.... and scooters? Well, little tyres mght make them a bit cheaper ot having so much rubber n them... but they have to go roud more to cover same miles, they wont last much if any longer. Scooters tend to ot have such demanding mechanics as concventional motorcycles, but little engines still tend not to hold much oil, so beg oil changes a lot more often; and thy all have brakes, and steering and suspenson, that needs looking after, and annual servicng cots can be a surprise to people... and again, make mockery of the spreadsheet predictions if not included.

Just for comparison, that Honda Civic car, was my every day 'hack', and even though it did less 'gas miles' than the bikes... the all in running costs were lower..

IF ecconomy is what matters, then reality of the ecconomcs can make bikes rather less than 'atractve' in the real world when full costs become apparent, and anything over maybe 400cc is likely to start rivaling the costs of super-ecconomy cars, and it is only issues such as parking costs or regular tolls that can start to 'swing' favour back to bikes..... BUT favour only found those every day commuter miles, for what can be a rather large upfront investmen to 'switch', savings can take a long time to repay, AND the 'inconvenience' of sittng otside n all weathers, not able to take passengers or luggage so easily and do the stuff outside ommutng you do with a car.

IF economy s the ma ncentive, the there are a LOT of other ays of finding it, and motorvehicles are probably ot the chapest way to work to start with, but car sharing, pulic transport etc can all fnd that sort of ecconomy... while, all n, it's often possible to find as much or almost as much REAL savng, NOT swtchig to a bike, but being a little more prudent n car choice and car use.

Eg: typical UK driver covers around 12ooo miles a year, and spends around £5000 year on transport of which around £2000 is on fuel.

Fuel is a big chunk of all in cots, BUT, there's usually a large chunk of credit interest eing pai on car loans, and on creidt plan for onthly insurace, and ratinalisng that, and possibly taking that further, and gettng rid of credit card balence, payng off the over-draft and reducing JUST credit charges, not just on car/bike, can find as much useful saving as switchng vehicle.

Insurance, as mentoned often a big chuk of costs; if switchng vehcle, picking something older, less expensve will likely bring that cost down, as well as potentally find some better 'gas miles' ... BUT, of those 12ooo miles fuel i spent on... the average UK commuter only actually commutes around 4ooo miles! Barely 1/3 of annual mileage. That fuel bill could be SLASHED just by thinking twice whether to use the car! Most folk could without ANY sgnificant chance of lifestyle just thking twice and reducing uncessary travel cut 1/3 or £700 a year off thier fuel bill, more than ANY vehicle switch might from suggested MPG figures n the brochures. They culd probably cut that bll by a lot mre, workg a bit harder, making sure the vehcle actually gae best gas miles, from not luggig unnecessary weight about; emptying the boot, cleaning out the gove box and tdying up nder the seats; making sure it properly servced, new spark plugs, tyrs puped up etc... and THEN just like the bikes HOW they drove it, driving for ecconomy, not ung goss acceleration and lots f heavy brakng, drivg reactvely, but smoothly and predictively.

LOTS of ways to save money on travel... and a bike though an obviuse suggestion is a perverse one; unlikely to return the size of saving expected and if it des, mostly NOT from any real better gas mileage, but simply being le versatile and less convenient and so not engendering the same umber of 'lazy' journeys a car does.

So like I say... start to get into it, start at the beginning.... the actual bike or scooter is literally the last thing you should be worrying about NOT the first... and the very very FIST question aught be WHAT do I really want to achieve?

If its jut saving money.... do the sum carefully.... spending money on a bike you cant stand riding, that causes pain and hassle will tend to cost you money rather than save it... we tend do it for the love, NOT the money, and IF we save money treat that as bonus.

If you only do it for the money, a) you aren't likely to save much, and b) make yourself miserable in the process. And there are lots of other and potentially 'better' ways of saving money.

But, if you can find the passion and do it for the love, yup bikes can be great... BUT you nee start at the beginning ad put the horse before the cart.. and worry about all the other far ore important stuff than 'What bike'... which is literally the last thing you need worry about and probably the least significant.
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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 19:37 - 25 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you in the US, or are you Dick Turpin?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:30 - 25 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

46 "hp" =~ 35kW = the Glorious People's Republic of Europeania.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 25 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
46 "hp" =~ 35kW = the Glorious People's Republic of Europeania.


hcosteff wrote:

2) price (under $5K used, hopefully much less) and gas mileage


That would be roughly €4,626 and LPG then. Doesn't matter because the answer is always Fireblade.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 01:03 - 26 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Filebrade.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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arry
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 26 Mar 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
1/ the least significant.


Post ever.
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