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VIGO Fully Electric Motorcycle.

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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 02 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

pikey666 wrote:
I don't have any links to verify the story but was talking to a rep for one of the e bike companies who said that the guy was on a 350w e bike and was hit by a bus. The bus company were about to pay out until the investigation found the unrestricted motor. The story is that the bus company ended up with no liability or payout.

A lot of the problem with the 350w bikes will be finding a company willing to insure you. Also the bike will I think need a sva check. Some companies like kalkhoff can provide a bike with a certificate of conformity from the factory so missing out the sva part.

The place I first saw it was here: https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/blog/post/how-to-de-restrict-a-bosch-electric-bike/ Allegedly he lost his license and was liable for damages, and apparently he bought the bike in 'good faith' (based on other references to the incident I've found).

I find that pretty harsh, it's like riding a derestricted motorbike, except there's no (practical) way to do it legally.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:11 - 02 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, it was one guy. OK, that's credible, I thought it wouldn't have any verifiable details.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 02 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
I thought it wouldn't have any verifiable details.

Hence why I've been trying to find a source. The closest I came was "oh yeah it was published in a cycling magazine".
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:55 - 03 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, a cycling magazine... [etc]

If it happened, and it if happened like that, it wasn't in the UK. At most, it would be contributory negligence. You can ride without a helmet and only get a 20% or so reduction from your spazzclaim if you suffer a head injury (or 10% for riding with it insecure, see Capps v Miller).
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Codezombie
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 09 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

pikey666 wrote:
52.5wh per mile is terrible compared to any of the e bicycles we sell at work.



That'd be pretty decent for an electric Motorbike to be honest.
At 50ish on my un-fairinged Zero Sr I tend to get about 110wh/m
Nearer 200wh/m once I'm up to 70.

To get 50wh/m, I'd have to do 30 everywhere. Sod that.


Otherwise, yep the VIGO looks like vapourware, or at least is a "coming in 3-4 years" job.
Batteries are getting cheaper / better year on year, but right now they are still pretty expensive, and putting out a bike with a decent sized battery at the moment costs a lot, anyone who tells you otherwise is not being honest.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:22 - 09 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Codezombie wrote:
Batteries are getting cheaper / better year on year,

Are they though? There have been lots of bold claims for new chemistries but you're still stuck with relatively old Li-ion.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/534866/why-we-dont-have-battery-breakthroughs/

Actually the same article does say that Tesla and Panasonic have been refining the manufacturing process incrementally, such that;
Quote:
Since 2008, the cost of Tesla’s battery packs has been cut approximately in half, while the storage capacity has increased by about 60 percent.

-so you're right, but my point is there has been no new technology, and the tweaking can't go on indefinitely.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 00:25 - 10 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not convinced they have in the real world, the i8 being a good example of how wrong range claims can be.
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Poecilotheria
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PostPosted: 22:25 - 12 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The concept is a good idea but I think that is all it is. Seems like such a big thing to unveil without any actual proof of concept. All you see is CG but nothing that can entice people to take it seriously and pay out.

The new battery creation, its more than likely a duracell AA.

We all know if and when there is a quality electric it will be from one of the big companies. Or if luck tesla turn their attention to bikes, they have the skill to back it up.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:33 - 12 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Motorsport's always a good indication of how good a technology is. I know both are relatively young but the Zero TT's a joke, and Formula E puts on a fairly poor show. If you look at how hybrid technology has evolved, you have to conclude there are fundamental issues (with purely electric power) which don't look like being overcome anytime soon.
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Codezombie
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PostPosted: 17:05 - 15 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Codezombie wrote:
Batteries are getting cheaper / better year on year,

Are they though? There have been lots of bold claims for new chemistries but you're still stuck with relatively old Li-ion.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/534866/why-we-dont-have-battery-breakthroughs/

Actually the same article does say that Tesla and Panasonic have been refining the manufacturing process incrementally, such that;
Quote:
Since 2008, the cost of Tesla’s battery packs has been cut approximately in half, while the storage capacity has increased by about 60 percent.

-so you're right, but my point is there has been no new technology, and the tweaking can't go on indefinitely.


Li-Ion is more than good enough, and the newer LiIon cobalt-manganese batteries are pretty fireproof unlike the older Lithium Polymer nightmares. Wink

What really needs to come down is the price.
As it is I cannot see how they can possibly claim that the Vigo is gonna be six grand with a 21kWh battery at current market prices. Thats ludicrious, the battery alone is going to cost about 10 grand.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 15 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Codezombie wrote:
What really needs to come down is the price.

Tesla's current planned demand will significantly outstrip global lithium supply. And that's just Tesla's planned 500,000 cars, not the 100 million plus required to switch all production to electric.

Can lithium supply come close to meeting that demand? Hell, no.

When demand exceeds supply, prices plummet, right?
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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 22:55 - 15 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Codezombie wrote:
What really needs to come down is the price.

Tesla's current planned demand will significantly outstrip lithium supply. And that's just Tesla's planned 500,000 cars, not the 100 million plus required to switch all production to electric.

Can lithium supply come close to meeting that demand? Hell, no.

When demand exceeds supply, prices plummet, right?


Lighter elements (generally) are more abundant than the heavier, we're unlikely to run out of Li. Li is likely to be the dominant element of battery research and development for a considerable period, and advances are averaging out at 5% improvement in capacity per year.

Meeting demand just-in-time (as in the linked articles) is the current problem. Problems like this usually get solved by investors keen to extract maximum profit, so it becomes critical to meet lowest cost to produce/extract and that's dependent on the relative purity of the raw material and production know how.

Case in point, aluminium. We wrap sandwiches in it and bin the metal afterwards these days. At one time that would have been as mad as wrapping your sarnies in gold leaf and binning that, production cost wise. Catch 22, investors appreciate there's only a short term profit for a big initial outlay, and no real long term big money to be made.

It will be a gradual slide to e-vehicles, well under 0.2% of all vehicles globally right now despite sales increasing year on year:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Global_plug-in_car_sales_since_2011.png/600px-Global_plug-in_car_sales_since_2011.png
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 23:13 - 15 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
aluminium

= ~8.1% of the earth's crust

Lithium = 0.002% of the earth's crust.

Crust sauce.
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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 00:06 - 16 Feb 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
aluminium

= ~8.1% of the earth's crust

Lithium = 0.002% of the earth's crust.

Crust sauce.


Yup - plenty to go around (!) even if you exclude the sea as a source.
Somewhere in between copper and tin, and more than the 'rare' earths (which aren't that rare).

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Elemental_abundances.svg/450px-Elemental_abundances.svg.png

^Damn you and your crappy axis, but the crust is huge.
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Stoker
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 20 Feb 2017    Post subject: crowdfunding Reply with quote

And here we go... THIS is how you launch a crowdfunder, AAdams!
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vigo-electric-motorcycle-of-the-future#/

The Addams need to study this site, everything is professional about it. Not like his pathetic soon-to-be shut-down joke of an "empire"
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Stoker
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PostPosted: 15:03 - 03 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

From an email I received...

Dear Stoker,
Due to the serious shortage of funds raised via Indiegogo campaign (9% only) we have made a decision to refund all contributions back.

Thank you for your faith and support in our venture. We assure you that we have no intention to give up and will do our best to raise required capital and fulfill the project.

To be kept up to date, please follow us on:
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/vigo.motorcycle/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/VIGOmotorcycle
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 03 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^
Two funny posts in a row. Thumbs Up

Bet you're wishing you'd given your money to me - my imaginary bike was twice as good.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:24 - 03 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stoker wrote:
Dear Stoker,
Due to the serious shortage of funds raised via Indiegogo campaign (9% only)

£213 raised with a target of 240,000 is 0.08% raised.
Quote:
we have made a decision to refund all contributions back.

Click on "Flexible target" and it says, "This campaign has ended and will receive all funds raised." Surprise, surprise, he must have chosen the Keep It All option. I like to think he's seen Adam Aarons' reputation torn to shreds and decided on an honourable retreat. He sells Zero Motorcycles (with a capital Z Wink ) so has something to lose.
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