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police profiling minorities.

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pepperami
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PostPosted: 07:49 - 18 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
wristjob wrote:


my issue is that i have commited no offence.
i have given no suspision that i my be commiting an offence.
and yet they stop me going about my legal day to day stuff.


This +1 .
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:17 - 18 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tef, I know you're reading the thread.

Rogerborg wrote:
Teflon-Mike wrote:
That uniformed officer 'should'... and that 'should' is where practice starts to depart drastically from principle.... but that officer 'should' have 'reasonable cause' to "impede your progress on the queens highway"

Why?

What statute and section are you "quoting"?

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arry
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PostPosted: 08:21 - 18 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can't recall ever having been stopped on the bike.

Used to get a few tugs in my old rice rockets but they pretty much leave me alone in the Porsche too.

I wouldn't mind being stopped for routine checks but getting stopped every other week because of somebody else's ANPR marker, for example, would get tiring quickly.
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 10:17 - 18 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Got stopped in my Scoob round Blackpool by unmarked coppers. "Routine check - can we search your car for drugs sir?" - Sure go ahead coppers but there's not even roof lining, carpets or door cards - where can I hide anything?Very Happy
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 18 Apr 2017    Post subject: Re: police profiling minorities. Reply with quote
wristjob wrote:

as one of my guilty pleasures is watching you tube vids of the free men in a conveyance getting bashed up by the police.


That's because it's the whole point of those "freemen" videos.

It wouldn't be effective PR if someone effectively told them to sod off after driving travelling normally instead of some loon having a fit.

zark wrote:
wristjob wrote:
TLDR;
can i refuse to be stopped and quizzed by the police?


Yes of course... I can't think of a possible downside to absolute anarchy amongst road users]


It would be just like a post apocalypse scenario if police don't get in their quota of unnecessarily dicking people around instead of gathering evidence on theft or vandalism.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 09:40 - 19 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
*contemplates the notion of finding oneself next to Tef at a dinner party*

https://www.thatcutesite.com/uploads/2012/01/suprised_koala_eating_leaf.jpg
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 19 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
The plod actually manning the 'stop' really don't want to be there, but it does find the odd stolen bike, some bikes that haven't been registered to it's new owner correctly and a few which aren't insured.
It puts 'a presents' in a well known biker spot which is PR for the non-biker lobby.
Until they sort out chasing stolen bikes, this is the best they can do (be seen) to stop bike theft.
So yes it's a pain but it does have an affect, although a tiny one...

As for being stopped, they can stop you just for the hell of it and you can't do anything about it.
They can use one of a hundred reasons from 'A bike the same colour was reported by a colleague up the road as possibly having a flat/bald tyre or seen leaking fluid' (stopped you for safety reasons, even though it turns out it's not this bike) through to 'Noisy exhaust so checking they're not illegal race cans'.
Just be polite and it'll be over quickly enough.
When another guy kicks off they'll tell quiet co-operative you to move on whilst they pull his bike apart trying to find things to book him for, if they can be bothered.
With the added benefit that they're raising money for the area police commissioners expense account Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:04 - 19 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alpineandy wrote:
They can use one of a hundred reasons

Or none at all.


Alpineandy wrote:
With the added benefit that they're raising money for the area police commissioners expense account Laughing

What part of any fines, blackmail demands or fees imposed will end up in the "retirement fund"?
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kgm
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PostPosted: 15:35 - 19 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:



Alpineandy wrote:
With the added benefit that they're raising money for the area police commissioners expense account Laughing

What part of any fines, blackmail demands or fees imposed will end up in the "retirement fund"?


In fact they go to the areas local authority. Not to the police.
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 15:36 - 19 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Alpineandy wrote:
With the added benefit that they're raising money for the area police commissioners expense account Laughing

What part of any fines, blackmail demands or fees imposed will end up in the "retirement fund"?

Whatever they can get away with Cool
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 15:39 - 19 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
kraggem wrote:
In fact they go to the areas local authority. Not to the police.

I know that's the case with speed cameras but I'm not sure that's the case with all traffic fines. Anyway wherever it goes, I'm sure the senior police get a decent lunch/diner via the old boys (Masonic?) network Very Happy
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kgm
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PostPosted: 15:40 - 19 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:



Alpineandy wrote:
With the added benefit that they're raising money for the area police commissioners expense account Laughing

What part of any fines, blackmail demands or fees imposed will end up in the "retirement fund"?


In fact they go to the areas local authority or the treasury. Not to the police directly.
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Fruit'n'nut
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PostPosted: 10:10 - 25 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Enduro Numpty wrote:

The focus on road traffic to the detriment of just about everything else that affects people is not what I pay tax for. Motorcycle theft and aggressive motorcycle theft (armed robbery) is routinely ignored.



Around 2003-ish, MCN used freedom of information requests to police forces to show that (nationally) there were fewer traffic/roads policing officers than ever before.

There are fewer now, since then.

Motorcycle theft isn't "ignored" IME but (like burglary) the detection figures are low - there are often few leads e.g. when a bike is carried away and nobody witnessed the theft, where do you start looking?


Enduro Numpty wrote:

Scum in the process of stealing my property, police won't attend yet I'm liable to prosecution if I take matters into my own hands.



How often is anybody prosecuted for acting reasonably and within the law, in defence of themselves or property, or to carry out an arrest? Genuine cases are rare IMO.

Police officers are also liable to prosecution, if they over-step the mark.
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 10:58 - 25 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fruit'n'nut wrote:
How often is anybody prosecuted for acting reasonably and within the law, in defence of themselves or property, or to carry out an arrest? Genuine cases are rare IMO.

Police officers are also liable to prosecution, if they over-step the mark.


I should probably rate this as funny.
Define "reasonably".
My understanding is that under the current law if you see a couple of guys stealing your bike you can approach them armed with strong language. If you pick up a bat, or your shotgun, on the way you're breaking the law.

The penalties for police officers often seem lighter than those for civilians (pure speculation, no source).
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kgm
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 25 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
jnw010 wrote:
[

The penalties for police officers often seem lighter than those for civilians (pure speculation, no source).


Look for some sources and you'll see that the opposite is true. Their position is considered an aggravation.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 19:31 - 25 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fruit'n'nut wrote:
Motorcycle theft isn't "ignored" IME but (like burglary) the detection figures are low - there are often few leads e.g. when a bike is carried away and nobody witnessed the theft, where do you start looking?

Facebook?

One of our bawws is that the pikeys are literally incriminating themselves in public, and zero fu​cks appear to be given.



jnw010 wrote:
My understanding is that under the current law if you see a couple of guys stealing your bike you can approach them armed with strong language. If you pick up a bat, or your shotgun, on the way you're breaking the law.

You can use reasonable force to defend your property. You can use unreasonable force (yah RLY) to defend yourself.

So, remember: you don't know how that chainsaw got in your hand, you must have picked it up reflexively. The use of it was to protect yourself after they came at you with their screwdrivers and lightsabres and that.

Citation.

jnw010 wrote:
kraggem wrote:
The penalties for police officers often seem lighter than those for civilians (pure speculation, no source).

Look for some sources and you'll see that the opposite is true. Their position is considered an aggravation.

[citation needed]
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 20:13 - 25 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fruit'n'nut wrote:
Motorcycle theft isn't "ignored" IME but (like burglary) the detection figures are low - there are often few leads e.g. when a bike is carried away and nobody witnessed the theft, where do you start looking?


On the other hand, do they do much if there is a witness, CCTV images and a record of the registration number of the van used?

All the best

Katy
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 20:47 - 25 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fruit'n'nut wrote:
Motorcycle theft isn't "ignored" IME but (like burglary) the detection figures are low - there are often few leads e.g. when a bike is carried away and nobody witnessed the theft, where do you start looking?


Police were given a name and address, as well as crystal clear CCTV when mine was taken (I didn't find this out until later on). Guess what was done by them?

He won't be stealing any more bikes around here, but the police have no influence on his decision to go elsewhere. It's not a lack of evidence, it's a lack of giving enough of a fuck to do anything about it.
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Fruit'n'nut
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PostPosted: 21:27 - 25 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fruit'n'nut wrote:

Motorcycle theft isn't "ignored" IME but (like burglary) the detection figures are low - there are often few leads e.g. when a bike is carried away and nobody witnessed the theft, where do you start looking?


Rogerborg wrote:

Facebook?

One of our bawws is that the pikeys are literally incriminating themselves in public, and zero fu​cks appear to be given.



Yes, I've seen some of those sorts of Facebook threads on various sites over the years.

Hypothetically speaking, a picture on Facebook won't prove the identity of a machine (at least to the satisfaction of a criminal court) without frame/engine/registration numbers. It also won't necessarily prove the offence of theft, at least in isolation from other evidence.

From what I have read, most of these bike thieves are already "known" to police, so at a guess they've probably previously been arrested and (as a result of the offence arrested for) their houses searched (for evidence.)

If they're smart enough not to keep stolen bikes in their own home, then it's not always possible to find where they are kept without a stroke of luck, or more evidence.

In practice, what this means is that if on Monday a bike is stolen, on Tuesday a suspect was arrested, but nothing found when his house was searched, then on Thursday there's a Facebook picture of the bike, there's probably still not much point in rushing out to ask the magistrates to grant an application for a search warrant - they'll ask when the address was last searched and what the result was, for starters.

It's galling, even when it's the simplified version.

What it means IRL is that it can take considerable time to build up enough information upon which to finally act.



Kickstart wrote:

On the other hand, do they do much if there is a witness, CCTV images and a record of the registration number of the van used?



Hopefully, yes, but that ^ very scenario opens a bag of further questions. Can the witness identify the suspects, or not? Will they give a formal statement, or not? Does the cctv capture a recognisable face, or not? Does anybody recognise the face, or not? Is the van currently registered and insured and on its own genuine plates, or not? Can it be traced, or not? Etc.

What happened next in your version? Question
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Fruit'n'nut
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PostPosted: 21:32 - 25 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
ThatDippyTwat wrote:

Police were given a name and address, as well as crystal clear CCTV when mine was taken (I didn't find this out until later on).

It's not a lack of evidence, it's a lack of giving enough of a fuck to do anything about it.



If that's down to laziness, then it's piss poor service.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 21:40 - 25 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

It wasn't a bike that was stolen, a load of spares. CCTV image was OK, neighbour did give a statement. Van was apparently no longer owned by the person it was registered to. But despite this the police didn't put out an alert to pull it over until a month later (and it had been pinged on various cameras a bit north of here).

All the best

Katy
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 21:52 - 25 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
You can use reasonable force to defend your property. You can use unreasonable force (yah RLY) to defend yourself.

So, remember: you don't know how that chainsaw got in your hand, you must have picked it up reflexively. The use of it was to protect yourself after they came at you with their screwdrivers and lightsabres and that.



That reminds me of the episode of South Park where hunting was banned, but self defence was still allowed. Hence screaming "They're coming right at me!" while blasting the crap out of everything.

So anyway, I was cleaning my machete / chainsaw / bucket of battery acid / when they came right at me.
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Marclev
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PostPosted: 22:05 - 27 Apr 2017    Post subject: Re: police profiling minorities. Reply with quote
wristjob wrote:

TLDR;
can i refuse to be stopped and quizzed by the police?


You can certainly try. Do let the rest of us know how that works out for you...
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arry
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PostPosted: 07:37 - 28 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fruit'n'nut wrote:

It's galling, even when it's the simplified version.

What it means IRL is that it can take considerable time and money to build up enough information upon which to finally act and that's just too much aggravation for petty bike theft that they don't care about


FTFY.

Sorry but I refuse to believe an intelligence led operation couldn't result in arrests of a good handful of them, if the rozzers did their job right. Or at worst make it extremely difficult for the scum to operate without fear.

The long and short is they don't care enough. I don't even think that's a budgetary concern; it's purely they don't GAF - you only have to look at the (lack of even) faux outrage and appeal from them to spot it.
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Baggyman
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PostPosted: 09:38 - 28 Apr 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
A few years ago, I had a speeding camera ticket turn up at my address for someone I had never heard of (apparently a doctor at a London teaching hospital) for some chavmobile of a F&F styled car. Pretty obvious someone had registered it in a fake name and used my address.

I took it round to the local police station so they could put an ANPR alert on the plates but was told "we don't go looking for work". I did ask if that was the Chief Constable's policy decision and for some reason they started getting pissy with me.

I was working away at the time so did not waste any more effort on supporting the useless fuckers
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