Outbuilding repair and planning permission

[drzsta]

Hi all,

I have an old victorian coach house in the garden that I want to re-roof (same profile) and re-use existing Welsh slate.

I have seen conflicting advice on whether planning permission is necessary due to it being a like for like replacement and would not look substantialy different.

It's not listed or in a conservation area.

Cheers

[arry]

No planning required is likely the answer but there's some variation between councils and what they'll allow:

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/47/roof

The correct answer is likely to drop them a line of your proposed plans and just get it confirmed back in writing that it's not in need of permissions. I did the same when I rebuilt my garage so that if anything ever comes back I have email confirmation from the council that planning wasn't required.

[Rogerborg]

Even if someone ratted you out (why?) and even if they cared, and even if they decided to take action, and even if they could prove that you'd re-roofed it (with identical materials), what would their remedy by?

Force you to re-re-roof it with... identical materials?
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[Ste]

Repairing the roof on a garden outbuilding without getting planning permission?

You might as well just go to the nearest police station and hand yourself in right now.

[grr666]

Currently applying for (and I'm not joking here) 'Permission to not need planning permission' for as large an outbuilding
as I can have built without needing planning permission.

They're just a massive pack of self propelled cunts trying to justify their existence.
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[ScaredyCat]

I had to get planning permission and listed buildings consent for my shed. Cost me a lot. Bastards.
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[STONEY!]

My father does a lot with properties, development, rental, sales etc he never gets planning for anything until after he has already done it, apparently getting retrospective planning is both cheaper and easier than getting it in advance, this may depend on what area you are in but it seems to work for him (his current property portfolio is around 70 properties most of which he has spilt into flats)

[kawakid]

[Diggs]

If its a genuine 'like for like' repair to the roof of an outbuilding within your domestic curtilage you won't need planning permission.

Things to consider:

1. Are you in reality going to raise the height of the building? If so, you may need planning permission depending on where it is in relation to your boundary.

2. Is the building really within your domestic curtilage?, i.e Sinclair-Lockhart’s Trustees v. Central Land Board (1950) 1 P&CR 195, where it was held that: “The ground which is used for the comfortable enjoyment of a house or other building may be regarded in law as being within the curtilage of that house or building and thereby as an integral part of the same although it has not been marked off or enclosed in any way. It is enough that it serves the purpose of the house or building in some necessary or useful way.” Must have been within the curtilage since 1947 or when the dwelling was created, whichever is the more recent.

3. You say the coach house isn't Listed. Does the original 'big house' exist? If it does and it is Listed, then the coach house may be listed by 'historic association' even if it wasn't revealed as such when you bought it.

I don't know what the conflicting advice you have received is, but I suspect it will be in relation to one of the above...

Hope this helps.
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[drzsta]

Hi Diggs,

The main house is not listed and I have no intention of heightening the roof.

I am having trouble identifying whether it is in the domestic curtilage of the property.

I have attached a plan to give you some idea, blue circle is the coach house about 15 meters from main house.

https://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x254/FearThis-AK/edited%20title1_zpsypursq04.png

[Diggs]

It looks like an odd one...

1. What house did the coach-house belong to originally? Is there a 'big house' somewhere that has been demolished leaving only the coach-house remaining?

2. I take it that the red line represents the current ownership boundary of your property. How long has the coach-house been within this ownership boundary?

3. Does the house have any 'planning history' that shows a red or blue line incorporating the coach-house?

What you need to do is be able to argue that your domestic curtilage for planning purposes is the same as your boundary. To do this you need to be confident that the coach house has been within this boundary and curtilage since 1947. If it hasn't, the Council may argue that the coach house doesn't enjoy Domestic Permitted Development Rights, and any use of it in association with your main property is unlawful.

Personally I wouldn't bother getting tied up in whether it is within the curtilage of your property or not if all you want to do is a like for like re-roof. The Council are highly unlikely to be interested as it is such a small matter. Given that it sits between two houses and presumably has done for over 10 years it will almost certainly qualify for a Certificate of Lawful Use as an outbuilding to an existing dwelling, whichever domestic curtilage it is in....
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Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
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[Freddyfruitba...]

Is this an building used as living accomodation in any way? If so, that might change things as I think if you re-roof you'd need to bring up the insulation to current standards (which is a Building Control issue rather than planning.
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[Diggs]

If its used as living accommodation i.e. an 'annex' to the main dwelling it is whole different kettle of spanners 'planning'-wise. Best not to go there unless it is the op's intention to use it as such once the works are complete...

If that is the case one would need the whole building to comply with Part L, which means not just works to the roof but probably losing 50mm all round internally to insulation etc... Getting onto a different topic here methinks!
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Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting...

[drzsta]

1. No, Its always been part of the main house (an old rectory) since 1886 which is within the redline. The house and garage above the coach house were built 10 years ago taking up the land that was previously our garden too.

2. See above, Its always been in the boundary of the house and until 10 years ago the ownership boundary was even larger.

3. None that I could find

I did have the idea of actually utilising the upstairs as an additional bedroom with workshop/storage space below.

Building Control aside, from a planning point of view aslong as the coach house is deemed within the domestic curtlidge it would seem planning may not be required?

I have found this guide for reference https://www.southsomerset.gov.uk/media/8350/annex%20guidance.pdf

https://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x254/FearThis-AK/Untitled_zpsadrytmin.png

[Diggs]

From your answers I think that the building is within your residential curtilage for the purposes of carrying out repairs and some external alterations without the need for planning permission, and within the main 'planning unit' for the purpose of potentially using it as an annex with workshop/storage below.

The bit you copied is correct in all respects bar the overriding principle of the work. It states that the 'change of use' will not require planning permission. What it should say is that provided no change of use takes place, planning permission will not be required. It is important to understand the difference, as the creation of a bit of space to sleep and take a dump in within a garden building is not the same as a change of use of said building to a separate dwelling with its own curtilage, address, services etc.

This advice comes with a caveat naturally as I am not being paid for it, we don't have a contract and therefore whatever I say is not covered by my PI. The caveat is that as I don't know the building nor have I researched the individual case so am speaking in generalisations which must be taken as such and not relied upon... blah blah blah...

I hope this has been some help!
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Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting...