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Biking days over... sad times

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wr6133
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
Why aren't the insurers pushing the Police to do more?


Cynical me thinks.

Insurers profit from it by gouging premiums.

Manufacturers profit from it by selling more new bikes (16k stolen a year in London, even if only 2/3rds replaced them there would be a shit-ton of new bikes there).

Police don't want to act, too much effort to do actual Police work and chasing the shits is either not allowed or if allowed likely to end up resulting in lots of paperwork.

Government don't care, bikers don't really have a political voice and the crime itself doesn't effect the overlords as they get chauffeured around blissfully not giving a shit about the little people.

So that leaves 4 solutions if you live in a badly effected area

1 - Give up biking.

2 - Accept it as a risk and take the financial hit accordingly.

3 - Actively go out in your local area and cripple the thieves.

4 - Get a Political voice so something gets done (going Guy Fawkes on Parliament is probably easier than becoming an MP for this purpose).

Realistically for 99.9% of people only 1 & 2 are options and many will probably do as TheArchitect is and shift from 2 too 1 after repeated losses.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:23 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

But as more people decide they don't want to take the risk by owning spiffy nice new bikes, and more people find they simply can't afford the premiums, so the manufacturers and insurers will lose out eventually, surely?
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grr666
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PostPosted: 17:31 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's almost as if they want bikers off the road completely... Thinking
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TheArchitect
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PostPosted: 17:33 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
It's almost as if they want bikers off the road completely... Thinking


Sadique Khan wouldn't stoop that low would he? Shocked
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grr666
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PostPosted: 17:39 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant everywhere. Nanny state etc etc.
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Fruit'n'nut
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PostPosted: 17:42 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Nibble nibble Reply with quote

wr6133 wrote:

Police don't want to act, too much effort to do actual Police work and chasing the shits is either not allowed or if allowed likely to end up resulting in lots of paperwork.



Not all standard (allowed to use blue lights/sirens/exemptions) police drivers are trained in initial pursuit (IPP - see College of Policing's Authorised Professional Practice document dealing with pursuits. It's online.) In some forces, I'm led to believe all standard drivers are trained in IPP, but in my force, it's an additional training course/skill.

If there's no means of resolving a pursuit (other than waiting for a crash) then it will likely be aborted.

Advanced drivers are (usually) trained in tactical phase pursuit i.e. "TPAC" (see the CoP APP again) and have training on various methods of resolving pursuits.

There are problems with chasing bikes - they're fast, manoeuvrable, and vulnerable to damage through collision/contact. The rider's vulnerable too. So are bystanders in the event of a crash.

Police officers involved in pursuits are risking their life/liberty and career, if a pursuit goes wrong and somebody is injured or killed. I'd rather abort a pursuit and let somebody get away than risk them injuring an innocent member of the public, or a passenger in/on the vehicle, who may not have had a choice in making the decision to fail to stop. "Lots of paperwork" is an understatement when it goes wrong.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 17:47 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not trained in pursuit either but I could knock a baklaffer off his scooter even if i were driving a 1.2 fiat panda.
No problem whatsoever. Who fucking cares if they get hurt? It's precisely the widely known about 'no pursuit'
policy that makes bikes/scoots the vehicle of choice for them.

They are laughing at you lot and all your form filling. It used to be a Police force. Most of the coppers I see
these days look about 15 and like they couldn't catch a cold.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 17:52 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Re: Nibble nibble Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
so the manufacturers and insurers will lose out eventually, surely?


and the people at the top can cash many, many bonus cheques between now and eventually. I'm to cynical for my own good


Fruit'n'nut wrote:
liberty and career.


and it's wrong that they have to think like that. Occupational hazard of stealing a bike should be you may get squashed by a copper, I suspect if this occurred the little scrotes that do it just to rag em around and burn them would start finding other avenues of entertainment.
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 18:40 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't personally mind if a few members of the public got splattered in a pursuit. It'd make the news, bring attention to it and give the papers a story to build on with the huge rates of theft and relative complacency by all police.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:51 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the kind of thing that makes you wonder why you bother trying to do the right thing. I wouldn't screw someone by cloning plates maybe a police commissioner, MP, CPS chief or bleeding heart judge but... disposable bike and Johnny Abroadlander plates? In that London, pretty much zero chance of being tugged, ever.

Don't do it, of course, perverting the course of justice anorl.

Makes you wonder though. Really does.
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ADSrox0r
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PostPosted: 18:57 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strangely enough I've just had a conversation with my biker copper neighbour regarding pursuit policy. It used to be the case there was a no pursuit policy but that's gone now.

What I didn't know and was shocked by is that they are allowed to use Stingers on bikes. Entirely situation dependent of course; can't use it at 100mph on the M1 but if the opportunity warrants it they can have you off.

The conversation was borne of bants regarding the recently (re)publicised unmarked ZZR1400 that East Riding have got round our neck of the woods. Ain't getting away from that one.
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Last edited by ADSrox0r on 19:00 - 12 May 2017; edited 1 time in total
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M.C
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PostPosted: 19:00 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Re: re Reply with quote

Freddyfruitbat wrote:

Look on the bright side(?) - in 5 years' time, you can buy a new bike and when you apply for insurance, when they ask, 'have you made any claims in the last 5 years', the answer is no! And the cycle begins again...

Not all insurers want claims from the last 5 years, some only want 3 (ok I found one but there must be others). Found this out by accident when looking for a (car) insurer that took bike NCD.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone should tell this bloke. He seems confused at the powers his own Police have.


Quote:
Chief Supt Peter Ayling, in charge of policing in Westminster, said that despite the rise in moped crime rates - officers are not allowed to pursue offenders.
He told the Guardian: 'With bikes there is an increased risk to riders should police pursue. Often they are so reckless in their actions it could expose the public to danger.
'For that reason the tactics are informed by the standard of driving of the suspect, time of day and apparent risk to all involved.'



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4497146/Gang-FAIL-pair-wrestle-thug-bike-tried-steal.html#ixzz4gtFr7kBo
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M.C
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PostPosted: 19:35 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Non-fail link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXFvlsdu1yU
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
Someone should tell this bloke. He seems confused at the powers his own Police have.

A lot of police policies (!) are developed at regional level though. What he's saying doesn't rule out the possibility that it is actually his own idea.
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Blah blah
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PostPosted: 19:46 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Re: re Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Freddyfruitbat wrote:

Look on the bright side(?) - in 5 years' time, you can buy a new bike and when you apply for insurance, when they ask, 'have you made any claims in the last 5 years', the answer is no! And the cycle begins again...

Not all insurers want claims from the last 5 years, some only want 3 (ok I found one but there must be others). Found this out by accident when looking for a (car) insurer that took bike NCD.


Did a quote on line for my other, (non daily) car... on-line quote allowed me to do 13 years no-claims, bargain, so I rung them to sort it out as it was £100 cheaper than anywhere else. After 45 minutes on the phone they say that they only allow 9 years, so I go "ok" at which point they put the quote up by £200 because I'd only got 9 years...

I wouldn't mind too much but my daily has almost 3 times the power and is worth 4 times as much but costs less to insure Question
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 20:17 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

WR, you forgot to include option 5&6 though:

5, clone another same model legitimate bike that you think the owner of is law abiding and thus would have insurance on.

6, not insure and ride with a false plate randomly, or just go full bikelife and not fit a number plate and while your at it don't wear a helmet as they won't chase you then etc.

Oh an off topic, but I always love uncle Itchy's economic and financial lessons. But what is the realistic alternative to 0.25% interest rates, in the name of life support/stimulating the markets and growing the economy?

Should the interest rate have gone to 6% and effectively caused the country to declare bankruptcy like the Greek economy did?

Is it best to try the gently approach to gradually stimulate business and spending in a still recovering fragile economy, or would a short sharp shock of everyone going broke and having mortgages repossessed etc, have done more to help the economy in the long term to recover?

I agree that un realistic and overstretched investments, loans and borrowing is a bad thing, but just relating it to the UK housing market as one little part of it, would we be better off with lots of repossessions and even more people turned down for mortgage applications?

The house building industry would not have recovered to its current level, so more people still would be out of work and claiming benefits?
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Lupo
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PostPosted: 23:27 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could insure something like a 125 or 50 cc be cheaper, and bring the premium down after a year? Not familiar with how insurance "no claims thingy" works out in the UK.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:37 - 12 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably complicates matters with theft claims but I've never had to prove my NCD, really wish I had made up some now Smile

What about buying a Yamaha something 50cc 'ped, insuring it then swapping the plate onto a big bike Razz
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 07:43 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just buy a CG125 frame with V5 and plate. Insure it TPO (then SORN). At least you'll still be getting no claims...... Wink
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darkhorizon
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PostPosted: 07:57 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:
Just buy a CG125 frame with V5 and plate. Insure it TPO (then SORN). At least you'll still be getting no claims...... Wink


Bet that would even get nicked from shed as well...
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 08:11 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

darkhorizon wrote:
Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:
Just buy a CG125 frame with V5 and plate. Insure it TPO (then SORN). At least you'll still be getting no claims...... Wink


Bet that would even get nicked from shed as well...


At least you could wire it up to the mains. Security yo.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:50 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ADSrox0r wrote:
What I didn't know and was shocked by is that they are allowed to use Stingers on bikes.

Legit.

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=4325274#4325274
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 08:52 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems excessive.

https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/imgs/fim92-stinger.jpg

... coat hat gone...
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TaffyTDM
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PostPosted: 09:57 - 13 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

wr6133 wrote:


Police don't want to act, too much effort to do actual Police work and chasing the shits is either not allowed or if allowed likely to end up resulting in lots of paperwork.


Coppers do, policy makers dont.

It's not the paperwork, more the fact the copper himself (and his radio operator) will get nicked for their efforts if the result isn't headline pleasing. See the byklifer that potatoed himself in hackney with a rucksack full of weed and three phones constantly ringing for an example. Diane Abbott was the first in the queue.

Back a few years ago it was amazing how many gilera runners had The ability to reverse at 30mph into a panda, with a nod, wink and thank you m'lud. Didn't have The problems we are seeing now.

The explosion in these shitheads is a direct result of police policy being dictated by public opinion. Blame snowflake, then start protesting in support of popo if you want this to change.

They can waffle on about tactical this, phased that, the reality is the moons of Jupiter have to be aligned to have the chopper up, the tpac drivers there, all in time to see pedboi take the piss to the degree needed to justify the off before disappearing.
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