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construction safety gear for motorcycling?

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czakal
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PostPosted: 22:14 - 20 May 2017    Post subject: construction safety gear for motorcycling? Reply with quote

I've been using worker boots for riding and they seem to work quite well (though I haven't had any accident that would have tested their protection). Is it appropriate to use other construction safety gear (armoured trousers, jackets, etc) for motorcycling? Does it give the right kind of protection from hazards you get as a biker?

Seb
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 22:26 - 20 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on what worker boots you are using. With boots you want something that will restrain your feet in case of a acident, so you do not break/twist your ankles. And doing that, these boots are mostly crap to walk in. The next thing you should be concerned about, are your shins. Tall boots with the right desing do protect your shins from gettting shattered in case of a accident (your shins hitting a blunt object).

Worker boots are better than a pair sneakers, I suppose.

The only non-motorcycle ''worker'' gear that could help is the hi-vis vest, although that proven to be innefective by many BCF members being overlooked by car drivers regardles of how shiny their hi-vis vests were.
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czakal
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 20 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

My boots are a bit worn, thinking of getting rigger boots (no laces) so that I won't have to worry about laces getting undone and caught. Not comfortable to walk in, but neither are most bike boots.
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 22:47 - 20 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

As has been said, your boots may be OK but it depends...
As for other stuff, I'd be amazed if "armoured trousers, jackets" have any abrasion resistance at all, so they may be fine for reducing bone breaks as much as Bike gear, but that won't help much when the tarmac is grinding away on your muscle/bone etc...
What can 'cross over' is probably limited to waterproofs and under clothing. Maybe some stuff on top of your bike gear when it's cold, provided you understand it'll be fucked in the event that you do slide down the road, even if it's just for a meter or two...
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 20 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rigger boots sound like a good idea but the reality is that they could slip off far too easily so there's a chance you'll wear through your ankle joint...
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czakal
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 20 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thanks, I guess best to stick to motorcycle specific jackets/trousers.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 22:59 - 20 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

czakal wrote:
Ok thanks, I guess best to stick to motorcycle specific jackets/trousers.


... and boots. Razz

It takes only one unlucky developement of a low/high (doesn't matter) speed crash, to properly feck up your ankle/s and gain a limp for life. The same goes with ruining your knees, elbows, shoulders... you name it. Straight bones and tissues can heal quite alright, your joints are a bit trickier to put back together and sometimes it's impossible to fully recover from such injury.

*Note, this is everyone's own responsibility, so do as you please.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 00:14 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's face it, if you don't gut a fresh kangaroo every Sunday and crawl inside it, you'll die nine times just pulling out of your driveway.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 07:55 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dress to Ride - Ride to Live; Dress for disaster, odds are you'll find one.

There's 3 lines of defense on a motorbike; 1) Primary Protection: Hazard awareness & Avoidance. See Danger, don't go there! 2) Secondary Protection: Hazard Evasion & Machine Control. IN Danger, get me out of here! 3) Tertiary Protection; Oh shit! This gonna HURT!.. Hope the hat & coat cushion the blow a bit!

Dedicated motorcycle wear, these days sells very easily on often errant ideas of 'safety'; but safety doesn't come from sticking your head in a fancy plastic hat and thinking you have the matter covered, comes from USING your head, and an awful lot of dedicated motorcycle apparel, especially at the budget end of the market, often looks a lot more 'helpful' than it has any possible hope of being.

I have a wardrobe full of 'dedicated' bike wear accumulated over the best part of 40 years, other than a crash hat & Jacket (& not even that all the while), I wear very little of it on the road these days. It s far from 'essential'.

Slip on 'short' rigger-boots? As practical footwear goes, they have more going for them than trainers as far as crash protection, but they are usually a rather loose fit, and they don't offer very much 'feel', whilst in an 'off' they are more likely to come off.

Army type lace ups? OK, you are worried the laces might get caught on stuff. Do them up properly; loose some of the extra length lace with an ankle wrap at the top before tying off, and tuck the loops in the top of the boot. (And/or old-skool trick of thick fisherman's socks, and folding top of sock over top of boot to cover laces & keep them tucked & tidy) They possibly don't offer an awful lot better feel than a rigger boot, but they are more securely attached.

A lot of 'dedicated' bike boots, especially cheaper ones, usually shorter ankle boots; may offer a little more feel, but often don't offer a lot more support whilst they are often hardly any sturdier than a decent trainer, and in daily wear may not even last as long.

Good Bike-Boots, tend to cost, and even then; with so many who ride purely for leisure, covering limited miles a year, often only for a few years between other interests; and much more fashion conscious, even 'expensive' bike boots, might not have the durability they did of old! And more put into fashion features like removable toe-sliders, than say water-proofing... I mean who rides in the rain any more? Wink

You pays your money & your takes your chances! But, on a tighter budget, you can do an awful lot with a little common sense and improvisation, but MOST will be done by using your head, not sticking it in a fancy hat, and thinking you got the topic covered!

And if you are on a limited budget... and fact you state a Lexmoto Arrow your sig-line suggests, it's not exactly extravagant; and you are likely still a learner, you WILL almost certainly do more to assure your 'safety' getting some lessons, and learning some of the tricks of the trade to spot danger and not go there, or if you do anyway, get yourself out of it, than you can possibly hope for, with the credit-card, layering up in 'safety wear', that at best, will only ever cushion a bit of the hurt... take note, it STILL HURTS, no matter what you are wearing! For when you DO come a croppa.

As opening line; Dress to Ride - Ride to Live; Dress for disaster, odds are you'll find one. If you start with the common sense to dress to ride; to stay warm and dry, attentive and in control, with the 'feel' to use brakes and throttle and steering, 'delicately' and in a hurry,.. follows that on the road, you will be that much more attentive and aware of the dangers to not go there, or if you do, get out of them, and not NEED the padding to soften the blow. Spurge the credit card in the shop; buy all the goodies they have on offer and walk out something between a space-ranger and the Mitchelin man! THINKING that stuff is going to keep you safe? You are probably going to ride into danger, oblivious to it; bundled up so you cant effect fine control so quickly or easily, even f you do spot t in time; and come off anyway, CONVINCED there was "Nothing I could do!... thank heavens I was in all the gear!"

It can offer a heck of a lot of false sense of security, that counter productively, makes you 'feel' safer than you are, worse that negligence of primary and secondary 'DON'T CRASH', means you are actually likely to get into more danger! And all the padding will do is soften the blow a bit. Fall over in a car-park, probably wont save you much hurt over wearing no more than your PJ s & Slippers! Face plant a Scania on a duelie at 60? It's not likely to make much odds one way or t'other! Even when 'protection' might be useful, it's only of limited use in limited circumstances, it is not an invulnerability suit!

Crash protection starts LONG before you crash; and you only need the padding IF you do. And Prevention is far better than a cure. So start at the top, and learn to ride. Your safety is in using your head, NOT in the fancy hat you stick it in!
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 08:13 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do top sports bike stars wear? they seem rather highly skilled, maybe they should loose the fancy hats, suits, gloves, boots??????
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 08:32 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wore steelies for years, I had no problem with them, as long as they can lace up *above* your ankle and stop them sliding off your foot. If you're worried about laces, tuck them into the boot. Proper, leather steelies, not some knock-off pleatherette shite you see knocking around these days.

I wouldn't wear anything else apart from Hi-Viz and Waterproofs. As everyone has said, no abrasion resistance, it's designed for impact, not sliding.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 10:40 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnnythefox wrote:
What do top sports bike stars wear? they seem rather highly skilled, maybe they should loose the fancy hats, suits, gloves, boots??????

Apples and Oranges.

On a track, sole objective is to go 'fast' and that means riding 10/10ths up to the limit of crashing, for which such precautions as making traffic one way, removing junctions, pedestrians and other 'hazards' before they begin is provided. Then they give them wide run-off areas, and hay-bales, and put an ambulance on stand by.....I have yet to see a (geuine!) Vid-clip of a (genuine) racer coming off in a (geuine!) race, into the path of an oncoming articulated lorry on the opposite side of the road, even on real 'road' races like the IoM!!

But if they were worried so about not getting TOO hurt, it would be far more sensible if they just slowed down... you dont see many crashig nto hay bales on 'Parades'! But they wouldn't win many trophies for the mantelpiece, would they?! Its all about 'compromise'!

I actually have a tailor made race suit in the wardrobe; fatastic if I was sliding down delugrip, at Donnington, not so wonderful if I came off on the road into town, where I would likely not slide very far, before being stopped by something hard and unyeilding like a kerb-stone or bollard or bus... might, at that moment appreciate the stitched in armor... but I certainly DON'T when its cutting into my forearms trying to lift the road-bike onto the stand at sainsburies!

It does offer just about as much crash protection as money can buy; and believe me it was a LOT of money! But even with all that, CRASHING STILL HURTS! Its still no invulnerability suit! And the very idea it makes me 'safe' is a falacy! I'm no less likely to crash i that suit than my birthday one! Just less likely to get so many grazes!

And on the road, an awful lot of that 'added' crash protection is redundant; while the suit is hugely compromised for the crash-protection it offers, to be far from 'practical' or helpful far more of the time than the instances when it might be of some help... WHEN I can get far more 'safety', just NOT riding like a dick, cos the only points you'll get for it mean penalties not prizes!! No Crash - no need crash protection! It's a pretty simple concept!

What racers wear in a race, is about as relevant as what sprinters wear in the Olympics; and suggesting that because they wear running spikes and shorts, to try take the 4-minute mile record, we all should, every day, in the street, 'just in case' we need run for a bus! Like said, its apples and oranges.

Safety comes from using your head, not sticking it in a plastic hat and thinking you have the matter covered. And it starts with the thinking, and not going into danger, and being able to get yourself out, if its thrust upon you; only then, when all else has failed, is protective wear any use what so ever. THEN it may be of some merit, but then, and only then, IF the situation means it might save some hurt, more it actually can, more still, does, and more still, the hurt it saves is significant enough you are applying elastplasts rather than casts!

There's an awful lot of ifs and buts and maybe's in the equation BEFORE 'protective wear' MAY serve any real use... but a heck of a lot more 'failures' must have occurred to get there and find out!

Meanwhile... merits of 'dedicated bike wear' remain very very questionable, and the 'extra' crash protection that they may, and it IS only a MAY, offer over 'sensible' every day wear is even more debatable.

Putting your faith in a garment, 'just' because it's sold in a bike shop or as a 'biker jacket', and assuming that 'must' mean it has some innate 'extra' crash-protection, IS sticking your head in the plastc pot and leaving it to chance!

An awful lot of supposedly 'dedicated' biker apparel isn't made any more robustly to offer any more guaranteed crash-protection than non bike wear.

A lot of leather garments, are actually horrendously 'poor' made from low grade leather, cut and stitched in small sections, often very poorly stitched, and likely to burst at the seams or tear in an 'off' as anything else sold solely for fashion. Even many presumed better, more expensive makes are not hugely better constructed; and off-the peg? Fit is critcal, and armor will only do any good if its protecting something! If its so loose its slipped around and isn't in an impact zone, it wont do a damn thing! Good leather s only any use IF ts between tarmac and skin, if stitching bursts ad you are on the lining, you may as well have put on a shell suit!

And that is when 'New' and in good condition, and its likely the best 'fit', before you gain or loose weight or the weather changes and you start layering up with jumpers or peeling off to a t-shirt underneath. Or the stitchg has started to decay, or the leather started to go hard, or padding crumble or crack. Soles have gone thin, or buckles become worn.

EVEN if you get 'good' kit, it needs to be looked after and kept in good condition to stand a chance of the 'crash-protection' you paid for still being any use when you crash, and as said, JUST because it was sold i a bike shop or as a biker boot or biker jacket doesn't necessarily mean that it WILL have any added crash protection than sensibly selected non dedicated bike wear.

Making that presumption is doing a ostrich act, sticking your head in a plastic pot and 'hoping' you have the matter covered.... not 'thinking' about it; and probably ignoring not just that last defense, but the first two, 1) See danger DONT GO THERE, 2) Oh bugga!, Get me out of here!.. so you DON'T need to rely on it at 3) Oh FCUK! Diss Gonna Hurt!"

That doesn't mean we may as well not bother with ANY protective apparel... BUT that what we put on to ride a motorbike does NOT need to have a bike-related-brand-name on it, or that good marketing is any better guarantee of good protection that common fucking sense! Which, will keep you far safer, far more often than a bludy credit card and a trip round Hen Gerrick!
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Mark_F
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rigger boots are probably some of the worst boots you could wear. They have no ankle support whatsoever, and are liable to slip off very easily (they aren't particularly good boots for construction workers either and are banned from a lot of sites). As others have said, you want boots that tie up above the ankle (and I found the toecap got in the way a bit, but you could get used to that).

The only gear I ever used for both work and the bike was balaclavas and neck warmers. Riding in to work I would either have bike gear over the work gear or the work gear in a bag.
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Alpineandy
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Tef' is correct that safety gear is the very last part of staying safe and everyone has the right to opt not to use any of the non-obligatory gear.
However shit that's beyond you own control does happen and he doesn't commute in central London...
So IMO you'd be an idiot not to wear the gear.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:04 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I got RSI from scrolling through Tefs posts....
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

A double-Tef! Because some points just can't be made with a single wall of text.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 20:51 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
A double-Tef! Because some points just can't be made with a single wall of text.


And the Berlin wall is whole again. Dance!
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