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General Election: 8th June 2017

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Lord Percy
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Joined: 03 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: 12:30 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:


You grew up under this era and have been converted into being a Labour voter, yet you claim this doesn't happen?

Yeah, righto... Rolling Eyes


Ok tell me what converted me.

What did Labour do different from the Tories, specifically in those years between 1997 and 2008, that resulted in the 'creation' of their support in 2017.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 14:42 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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Joined: 06 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:

Ok tell me what converted me.

What did Labour do different from the Tories, specifically in those years between 1997 and 2008, that resulted in the 'creation' of their support in 2017.


Your a "special" case though aren't you? Most adolescents go through a left wing "right on" student phase.
You're still hanging on to your student lifestyle well into adulthood.


You're*

Perhaps you should have spent more time at night school.
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Sload
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PostPosted: 19:16 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks like ol TesMay is really cocking this up. Seems to be lots of "she is screwing the old, she is stealing food from our childrens bellies" as well as the Orwellian slant.

Could get rather interesting actually.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 19:18 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sload wrote:
Looks like ol TesMay is really cocking this up. Seems to be lots of "she is screwing the old, she is stealing food from our childrens bellies" as well as the Orwellian slant.

Could get rather interesting actually.



Kind of sounds a lot like Thatcher towards the end.

She felt herself in such an unassailable position she went and put all sorts of unpopular stuff in.
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ScaredyCat
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Joined: 19 May 2012
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PostPosted: 19:21 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.dropbox.com/s/webnrinpiso6bbj/may-puppet.jpg?raw=1
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:27 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm all for weak and erratic government. A nice squabbling coalition that's constantly changing policies will be great for business. Praying
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Sload
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
If they fail, it is completely on them. They had it in the bag.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 22:08 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sload wrote:
If they fail, it is completely on them. They had it in the bag.


There are still a lot of people that'll vote for her, not because they agree with her but because they want to back the winning horse.

Although on her 'tour' she's not really talking to anyone...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7160cvx93fnne6l/is-there-anybody-there.png?raw=1
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Last edited by ScaredyCat on 22:36 - 21 May 2017; edited 1 time in total
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JonB
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PostPosted: 22:34 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
ScaredyCat wrote:
Sload wrote:
If they fail, it is completely on them. They had it in the bag.


There are still a lot of people that'll vote for her, not because they agree with her but because they want to back the winning horse.

I think if there wasn't a brexit negotiation upcoming - the current leader and manifesto combo would be leading to a very close contest.

Not because I think labour and Corbyn are very good - just they are great at policies that are populist.

I'm still waiting for the "free magnums for everyone at 2pm on a Friday" policy to be announced by Labour - such is their policy making process.

Unfortunately, I think the fact we are still adding £50bn+/year onto our national debt is slowly slipping out of people's minds. The Tories would do no harm reminding the public of this fact, rather than the cringey and vacuous "Strong and Stable" mantra.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
JonB wrote:

Unfortunately, I think the fact we are still adding £50bn+/year onto our national debt is slowly slipping out of people's minds. The Tories would do no harm reminding the public of this fact.


People don't want to be reminded that it's going to get worse. Some areas have already suffered from the cuts, many of those are already poor in services. Boris isn't helping either, he just claimed that the Tory manifesto promised to give the NHS £350m...


JonB wrote:

rather than the cringey and vacuous "Strong and Stable" mantra.


As soon as that started to become a mainstream piss take they should have stopped repeating it. Certainly didn't do the Tories any good continuing to use it.
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 23:28 - 21 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
ScaredyCat wrote:
As soon as that started to become a mainstream piss take they should have stopped repeating it. Certainly didn't do the Tories any good continuing to use it.

You think?

Every time you repeat it, even in jest, you reinforce the image. All those "Strong and stable my arse" posters going up? They're free marketing for the Tories.

It may be meaningless babble, but it's not a negative attribute. Are the other parties weak and erratic? Why won't they claim to deliver strong and stable government?

You can tell it's effective because of the "Ah hah, it's in Mein Kampf!" shrieking today. Once you're making Nazi comparisons, you've lost the argument and have nothing left to say.
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Falco
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PostPosted: 22:25 - 22 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
Falco wrote:
Not really. Itchy is correct. This only works if markets operate in a purely free environment. The idea of this is as silly as the idea of pure communism.


So the problem is governments meddling with markets?


No, a market operating with no restrictions tend towards one giant company, price gouging because there is no alternative (for example, ISPs in Rural America). Governments

Ste wrote:
Falco wrote:
Markets are very good at optimizing businesses for short term gain (they can also be pretty good at focused R&D). They are useless for anything longer term and they generally are not self-correcting.

If their aims are only short term then that's what will be delivered to market and even then, it'll only work if people want what's on offer.

If they don't self correct then the product will crash and burn in way not unlike what has happened with rainpal.


Yes, and anything requiring long term focus will be ignored.

Self correction via crashing and burning won't work if a company becomes too big to fail....which they tend to do without restrictions.

Ste wrote:
If the demand for a drug (singular) rises then over time yes, the cost will fall but it would be naive short term thinking to expect such changes to happen quickly.


That is certainly the theory, but that only really works where demand is elastic or where consumers have a choice. This is not the case with medicines and companies have a bad habit of making it worse by using legislation to stamp out generic competitors or force their own to be bought (see the epi-pen Saga)

Ste wrote:
Falco wrote:
Markets can be a driving force for innovation, for getting people products and services at reasonable prices, but not if they are unfettered. At that point they descend into price gouging and end up cratering themselves.

Earlier it was markets "only works if markets operate in a purely free environment" but now markets are only a driving force for innovation if they're not unfettered? Eh?


That was my bad. I meant to discriminate between how markets work theoretically (ie totally free) and how they work in actuality (ie well for certain things only)

Itchy wrote:
A much better explanation of short term vs long term and government interventions than I managed


Perhaps I should just leave the heavy intellectual lifting to Itchy Razz
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Falco
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PostPosted: 22:37 - 22 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
ScaredyCat wrote:
As soon as that started to become a mainstream piss take they should have stopped repeating it. Certainly didn't do the Tories any good continuing to use it.

You think?

Every time you repeat it, even in jest, you reinforce the image. All those "Strong and stable my arse" posters going up? They're free marketing for the Tories.

It may be meaningless babble, but it's not a negative attribute. Are the other parties weak and erratic? Why won't they claim to deliver strong and stable government?

You can tell it's effective because of the "Ah hah, it's in Mein Kampf!" shrieking today. Once you're making Nazi comparisons, you've lost the argument and have nothing left to say.


Not sure tbh. May seems to be getting hammered based on her shitty record in the home office. I could do without the "weak and wobbly" though, it's not half as funny as reporters think it is.

I suppose it all hinges on whether the endless repeating of it gains a negative attribute all of its own. If most people remember it for being BS then it won't help, if they remember it and agree, then its all gravy for May and co. I think she is rolling the dice on it.

On a side note, May has screwed this royally. I expected to walk it, but a seemingly endless series of unforced errors means there appears to be some uncertainty over the size of her majority.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 22 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Falco wrote:
May seems to be getting hammered based on her shitty record in the home office.

Good. She's an awful person and the worst kind of opportunistic, non-conviction politician.

The strong-and-stable is a gambit to frame the narrative and distract from discussion of the substantive issues. To that extent, it seems to be doing its job fairly well. Bear in mind that voters are thick (we voted to retain FPTP) and many won't read past the headline.
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JonB
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PostPosted: 23:02 - 22 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can I be the first to suggest hung parliament?

This could be the biggest own goal in politics history. Snap election with massive polling majority - to fucking it all up in 8 weeks.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 23:18 - 22 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
JonB wrote:
Can I be the first to suggest hung parliament?

This could be the biggest own goal in politics history. Snap election with massive polling majority - to fucking it all up in 8 weeks.

Can I be the first to suggest deliberate fuckup?
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 00:08 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
I said, a few days ago, that I was not convinced that any of the parties want to win and have to deal with the political bloodbath that will inevitably follow brexit!

Considering some of the batshit mental policies being proposed by one and all I'm still not convinced!
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The Wobbly Orange
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: 19:18 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
JonB wrote:
Can I be the first to suggest hung parliament?

This could be the biggest own goal in politics history. Snap election with massive polling majority - to fucking it all up in 8 weeks.


Bigger than assuming the referendum was a sure thing for Remain and Cameron?


Not at all, the result was within the margin of error with regards to polls. It was admittedly at a fairly extreme edge of the margin but within nonetheless. Even if a similar margin played out next month the Tories will still gain a couple of dozen seats. Not the landslide expected, but an improvement.
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Falco
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PostPosted: 19:27 - 23 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Falco wrote:
May seems to be getting hammered based on her shitty record in the home office.

Good. She's an awful person and the worst kind of opportunistic, non-conviction politician.

The strong-and-stable is a gambit to frame the narrative and distract from discussion of the substantive issues. To that extent, it seems to be doing its job fairly well. Bear in mind that voters are thick (we voted to retain FPTP) and many won't read past the headline.


Yup, I expected more strong and stable U-turns today but obviously people are busy posturing and being sad about Manchester (6 days no electioneering I hear).

My problem is that I have no way to tell if that narrative *is* actually working. I heard that a lot of conservative storm troopers where hearing a lot of concern about the social care thing on the door steps. Unfortunately, the abject uselessness of Corbyn is masking the effects of these blunders.

Unless May starts disembowelling small children live on TV, she will still seem like a better leader to many.

Brick Wall Don't remind me about that AV referendum, its too damn depressing.
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 20:25 - 24 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quick question... If Corbyn took Diane Abbott outside on national tv and had her publically executed for incredible levels of muppetry...

Could we vote for him then?
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Sload
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Joined: 28 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: 22:03 - 24 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Suntan Sid wrote:
I said, a few days ago, that I was not convinced that any of the parties want to win and have to deal with the political bloodbath that will inevitably follow brexit!

Considering some of the batshit mental policies being proposed by one and all I'm still not convinced!


Actually an interesting tangent although I don't think I can buy into it. Mays U turny posturing clusterbombs smacks to me of a party that attempted significant overreach based on overconfidence from a false assumption of abject dominance.

Sun Wukong wrote:
Quick question... If Corbyn took Diane Abbott outside on national tv and had her publically executed for incredible levels of muppetry...

Could we vote for him then?


No, I would drop him into Gulag via helicopter. She may stand accused of being an incompetent and a vile bigot, my stance would still afford her protection as an individual under the laws.
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