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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: More insurance fuckwittery Reply with quote

Got a renewal letter from Bennetts for the YBR that was nicked back in September. The bike they'd paid out for. Automatic renewal if I don't reply.

Nice to know they're on top of admin.
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Dabura
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PostPosted: 20:56 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the exactly the same thing with carol nash except i didnt receive a renewal, just a nasty letter three months later demanding £300, sent them proof of it being nocked and that i paid all last years premium and havnt heard anything since. Fucktards
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:03 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Re: More insurance fuckwittery Reply with quote

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
Got a renewal letter from Bennetts for the YBR that was nicked back in September. The bike they'd paid out for. Automatic renewal if I don't reply.

Idea Claim for it again? Idea
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

So was the policy still running? After I wrote my bike off the policy kept running, if the scrap was nicked I wonder if I would have been able to claim again Laughing
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arry
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Re: More insurance fuckwittery Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Idea Claim for it again? Idea


= Profit Shhh!
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arry
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PostPosted: 21:19 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Re: More insurance fuckwittery Reply with quote

Also.

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
Bennetts


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1428/5183689053_2245c9f296_z.jpg
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 21:19 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know why they keep on trying this. All companies I mean. Silence isn't acceptance.

To cancel my own auto renewal of £600 it took an hour on the phone. Sad
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arry
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PostPosted: 21:20 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Silence isn't acceptance.


Contractually it is.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 21:29 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Contractually it is.


No it isn't. It has been tested by case law many many times.

Felthouse v Bindley (1862) and numerous other cases in contract law have stated that silence is not acceptance.

Acceptance must be communicated clearly and cannot be imposed due to silence of one of the parties.

There are a few holes for instance tacit acceptance whereby you accept one batch of goods and service and continue to accept more.

However the contract can't be fundamentally different for their to be differences as differences need consideration and acceptance.

The silence as acceptance stops me from sending you a bit of paper saying you'll agree to pay me a million quid if you don't say anything... if you receive such a letter 99% of the time you'd throw it away.


Companies try to get around this by putting unenforceable or unfair rules into their contracts. For instance if we don't hear from you then you accept. This is quite common actually. A London biker on here had an unfair rule in the contract regarding the life time guarantee of a Halfords spanner set. The life time guarantee required a receipt. Yet the receipt was clearly not designed to last a life time.

So it's an unfair bit in the contract.
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arry
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:

There are a few holes for instance tacit acceptance

can't be fundamentally different for their to be differences as differences need consideration and acceptance.

The silence as acceptance stops me from sending you a bit of paper saying you'll agree to pay me a million quid if you don't say anything... if you receive such a letter 99% of the time you'd throw it away.


Important bits highlighted.

I don't like it, but to hell and high-water FFS this has been an issue now for 10 years plus and customer acceptance and/or apathy of it is starting to wear a bit thin. Don't whinge about it do something about it. Vote with feet. Don't use intermediaries who add no value. Oh it's cheaper? That'll be a score then.....
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iooi
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
A London biker on here had an unfair rule in the contract regarding the life time guarantee of a Halfords spanner set. The life time guarantee required a receipt. Yet the receipt was clearly not designed to last a life time.

So it's an unfair bit in the contract.



Define lifetime?

Do they state the "Lifetime" of the purchaser, or the "Lifetime" of Receipt or the "Lifetime" of the product?

Clearly if it is the product, and it breaks, then it has reached the end of it's "Lifetime" Laughing
If it is the receipt, then if it is unreadable. It has reached the end of it's "Lifetime"
Therefor the said Guarantee is worthless Rolling Eyes

Now if it is the purchaser.... Well you have to prove that you purchased said item and that require's a receipt... Clearly a bank statement does not provide proof of what was purchased Embarassed
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 21:55 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:


I don't like it, but to hell and high-water FFS this has been an issue now for 10 years plus and customer acceptance and/or apathy of it is starting to wear a bit thin. Don't whinge about it do something about it. Vote with feet. Don't use intermediaries who add no value. Oh it's cheaper? That'll be a score then.....


It's been an issue for nigh on 200 years and companies still try it on.

I know about the voting with feet thing.

The thing is a lot of companies habitually abuse this. Gym memberships in the past were abused to hell. They were pretty much hotel California. It even got on Watchdog on the BBC (is that still on?)

You'd sign up and they would never let you leave. They would put in their T&C that you had to put into writing your intention to leave. Even hand delivered and or with recorded delivery they'd deny receiving the cancellation letter.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 22:08 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I SORNed a bike and then unSORNed it later. The insurance had lapsed for the two months I was not using the bike but I re-insured when I unSORNed.

Bennetts asked for a photo-scan of permit to ride doc and proof of NCD.
I sent a scan of my licence and the DVLA code authorising Bennetts to look at my convictions Cool I also advised that they had had the last policy so they should have the NCD detail on file.

I got a letter at the beginning of May requesting the NCD again. I called them to let them know I had advised at the time and WTF?/ETC.

It turned out that the old policy Self Renewed so I was already on cover and was now double insured. (Like a Twaaaat.)

The chap kindly cancelled the 'new' policy and sent the full premium back to my bank account.

I imagined when he said I was double insured that they would gouge for the time of cover and admin etc. but no, they were very gentle. Smile
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arry
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PostPosted: 22:10 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:

It's been an issue for nigh on 200 years and companies still try it on.


And customers still accept it.

I've had one issue on auto-renewal in 20 years of placing motor insurance, on my wife's policy because I wasn't paying particular attention, and it cost me an extra £8. It's not that big a deal, and is easy enough to not become embroiled in.

If there was 95% opt out rate on auto-renewal they'd never run it.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 22:15 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Insured through Swinton online at the end of April. By DD payments will be made.

12 days later, letters postmarked the day of the Policy starting dropped through the door. One with a copy of the credit agreement to be signed and returned.

The second reminding me if I didn't return the credit agreement within 14 days they'd be slapping me with a £24 admin fee.

Almost like they delay sending the letters... Laughing

Oh, and I couldn't scan completed form and email it, have to post it... Laughing Laughing
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arry
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again wrote:
Insured through Swinton online at the end of April. By DD payments will be made.


Now that's just asking for trouble.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 22:23 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Jewlio Rides Again wrote:
Insured through Swinton online at the end of April. By DD payments will be made.


Now that's just asking for trouble.


Pass the popcorn Ready for lols.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 23:42 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe Bennets have merged with another company, Chuchill, I think, in the last 9months or so.
Usual sort of left hand not knowing what the right isn't doing, chaos of UK Coprorate mergers/take-overs probably rules, and there's a onsultant some-where saying "No, we don't need some-one to verify data entry, computer should take care of that!"
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 23:44 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
I believe Bennets have merged with another company, Chuchill, I think, in the last 9months or so.
Usual sort of left hand not knowing what the right isn't doing, chaos of UK Coprorate mergers/take-overs probably rules, and there's a onsultant some-where saying "No, we don't need some-one to verify data entry, computer should take care of that!"


I was involved in merging three accountancy firms together in the 00s. Even though it was only a couple million quid in clients value it was a right mess.
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Commuter_Tim
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PostPosted: 00:11 - 18 May 2017    Post subject: Re: More insurance fuckwittery Reply with quote

arry wrote:


Thinking
Well, they are both gay as fuck.
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arry
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PostPosted: 08:07 - 18 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
I believe Bennets have merged with another company, Chuchill, I think, in the last 9months or so.
Usual sort of left hand not knowing what the right isn't doing, chaos of UK Coprorate mergers/take-overs probably rules, and there's a onsultant some-where saying "No, we don't need some-one to verify data entry, computer should take care of that!"


Nothing like a bit of conjecture, is there.
A) it's Saga that purchased them, Churchill wouldn't purchase anyone, as Churchill is a trading name of the underwriter UKI, which is itself owned by Direct Line Group. DL sold off their bike broker (Devitts) some years ago - it's not their model.
B) there hasn't been a merger and the integration has been about as light touch as you can get; same senior management in place, same operating system, just a feed into Saga back office for cross sell marketing purposes rather than BGL who owned Bennetts before.

Their 'takeover' hasn't made them poor - they were just poor to start with.
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 10:24 - 18 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my 5 years of motorcycle insurance, this happened;

Year 1; Bennets. Cheapest for first time rider blah blah.
At the end of this term, I looked on bike insurer and found bikesure to be best (read cheapest) so I went with them. Well I tried. I had no money in my account. Bennets autorenewed 600 of a policy with no communication. They claimed to have sent a letter ...

Year 2; Bikesure I think sent me an email around renewal, I was allowed to just reply to them to say I didn't want to accept their renewal offer - went with Carole Nash

Year 3; Carole Nash offered a renewal but I don't remember having to tell them that I did not want to auto renew.

Year 4; Bennets again. Come renewal they sent me duplicates of the renewal offer. Twice as much as the previous year. I called them to say I'll be going elsewhere seeing as somehow I've become twice as risky (that's how I view it if my premium doubles) since I've added an extra year no claims. They didn't even try to say, "let us run the numbers again to meet your other quotation". Simply ,"ok sorry."

Year 5; Bikesure again ...

I'm betting next year Carole Nash will be the one or will an underdog come and surprise me?

Arry - When you say "don't use an intermediary that adds no value", how do I grade this when looking for quotes?
When looking for renewal, I look for cover for riding other bikes, for the two times a year I do, and to "include pillion cover Rolling Eyes ". Then the rest is based on price.
Serious question is serious that, what other value can they add to benefit me?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:05 - 18 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Felthouse v Bindley (1862) and numerous other cases in contract law have stated that silence is not acceptance.

Acceptance by conduct is though. Rust vs Abbey Life was about insurance.

However, taking money for a vehicle that they know, or ought reasonably to have known, was no longer in the customer's possession (or extant at all) is ripping the piss. Where's the consideration?
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 11:14 - 18 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Itchy wrote:

There are a few holes for instance tacit acceptance

can't be fundamentally different for their to be differences as differences need consideration and acceptance.

The silence as acceptance stops me from sending you a bit of paper saying you'll agree to pay me a million quid if you don't say anything... if you receive such a letter 99% of the time you'd throw it away.


Important bits highlighted.


I would suggest to you that a 4 x premium hike is a difference, which is what Bennetts offered me. Assuming I don't claim, then my NCD changes too, that's another difference.

arry wrote:
FFS this has been an issue now for 10 years plus and customer acceptance and/or apathy of it is starting to wear a bit thin. Don't whinge about it do something about it. Vote with feet.


If it's been an issue for "10 years plus" and it's still and issue, nothing has changed - that doesn't make it an acceptable practice that's getting away with it for as long as possible.


arry wrote:
Don't use intermediaries who add no value.


We don't really have that choice do we, how many can we actually deal direct with?
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 23:15 - 24 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

**BUMP**

And today I received my 'you've not sent your agreement back, you naughty man, so we're gonna sting you for more money' letter.

Laughing Laughing Laughing

So I will call them tomorrow and get the charge scrapped. Again. Laughing
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