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Damage on bike after retrieving from police impound

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Untitled1995
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 27 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: 14:38 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Damage on bike after retrieving from police impound Reply with quote
Well as some of you may know i got my motorcycle impounded a few weeks back.

Got it back yesterday and noticed some damage on the bike.

One of the panels has scratches running the length of it along with chips out of the paint work. Cracked plastics as well leading me to believe the bike has been dropped.

Damaged paint also on the fuel tank.

Not happy, because the bike recently received a full respray.

Rang West Yorkshire police and they said to call the impound yard as they might be able to tell me 'why it got damaged' i just said that i don't care how it got damaged when its in your hands you have a duty of care.

What grounds do i stand on regarding this?
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WD Forte
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Joined: 17 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 14:42 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
None, get over it, move on
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 15:27 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Get proper licence. Don't get bike impounded.

You'll cry but...it's true.
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Going
Nearly there...



Joined: 26 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: 15:54 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
I thought vehicles were going to get crushed if the driver didn't have a licence or insurance.
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Commuter_Tim
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Joined: 09 May 2013
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PostPosted: 16:14 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Untitled1995 wrote:

Yeah dickhead I'm aware of that. But having a license or not does not give them the right to fuck my bike up Rolling Eyes


The right? no it does not, but I gather you have been riding not in accordance with your licence/uninsured.
Im guessing since your bike wasn't cubed then you got let off lightly, sure you wanna rock that boat?

If nothing else then you may find coppers in your area less inclined to go lightly in future.
Sad state of affairs? sure, but I would say it's the logical choice to see it like a crash due to a stupid mistake, it cost you, don't do it again.
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The above post is most likely nonsensical.

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Untitled1995
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 27 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: 16:34 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Commuter_Tim wrote:

The right? no it does not, but I gather you have been riding not in accordance with your licence/uninsured.
Im guessing since your bike wasn't cubed then you got let off lightly, sure you wanna rock that boat?

If nothing else then you may find coppers in your area less inclined to go lightly in future.
Sad state of affairs? sure, but I would say it's the logical choice to see it like a crash due to a stupid mistake, it cost you, don't do it again.


Riding not in accordance with my license was the only charge. They wasn't sure if my insurance company would cancel the policy but after speaking to them they was happy to continue the policy. And as such the police from what i can gather are not charging me with being uninsured just driving not in accordance.

I don't think i really get let off lightly with nearly 4 weeks of impound fees + recovery fee plus the huge fine i will no doubt get when it goes to court.

I wont be doing it again, I've learnt from being a prick. But i still don't want to just let the damages go. A complaint at the very least i think.
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Commuter_Tim
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Joined: 09 May 2013
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Untitled1995 wrote:
Riding not in accordance with my license was the only charge. They wasn't sure if my insurance company would cancel the policy but after speaking to them they was happy to continue the policy. And as such the police from what i can gather are not charging me with being uninsured just driving not in accordance.

I don't think i really get let off lightly with nearly 4 weeks of impound fees + recovery fee plus the huge fine i will no doubt get when it goes to court.


Well of course you don't think you got off lightly, that's not generally how it works.
Vehicles can and do get crushed for similar offences, this would need to go through the courts I believe, but still an option for them.

If you're riding not in accordance with your licence, then last I checked your insurance is invalidated. (for the duration of the offending incident)
The fact the insurers chose to let the noob off with it is neither here nor there.
In this circumstance you were riding a vehicle that wasn't insured to be in the situation you were in. (On a motorway)

If anything this situation is a testament to the police and insurers for once, sounds like either one of them could have bummed you.
Instead it was just negligent storage monkeys.
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Last edited by Commuter_Tim on 16:44 - 24 Jun 2017; edited 1 time in total
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ADSrox0r
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Joined: 23 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: 16:42 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Your bronze eye might pucker up once you see how much your renewals go up Laughing
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
See, cried.

Sorry you ride your bike illegally and got caught baby, perhaps chalk that shit up and deal with it.

Unless you have hard evidence it wasn't there before, you'll get absolutely fuck all. Assuming you have nothing, therefore... Don't even bother. Thumbs Up police got you both charge wise and they've trolled your bike. Shame bro.
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Untitled1995
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 27 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Commuter_Tim wrote:
Well of course you don't think you got off lightly, that's not generally how it works.
Vehicles can and do get crushed for similar offences, this would need to go through the courts I believe, but still an option for them.

If you're riding not in accordance with your licence, then last I checked your insurance is invalidated. (for the duration of the offending incident)
The fact the insurers chose to let the noob off with it is neither here nor there.
In this circumstance you were riding a vehicle that wasn't insured to be in the situation you were in. (On a motorway)

If anything this situation is a testament to the police and insurers for once, sounds like either one of them could have bummed you.
Instead it was just negligent storage monkeys.


Interesting information. I wasn't aware of that. I was under the assumption that you was insured unless the insurance company decided to cancel the policy. Guess i was wrong and did get off lightly.

My problem is not with the police. My problem is with the assholes who damaged the bike.

New information after being in contact with the impound yard they confirmed that the damage was done by Motohog. When they moved the bike back to the impound yard they used a car transporter. And in the fellas opinion this is what would have caused the damage.

So i pay 50 quid to Motohog to have a motorcycle returned to the impound yard, after never asking them to move it in the first place. Then only to find that they have fucked the paintwork up due to not having the correct resources to move motorcycles? Would that not piss you off?
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notabikeranym...
Formerly known as
meef



Joined: 02 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
I remember this one time I deliberately parked like a cunt and got a parking ticket.

I was furious, became abusive to the ticket person, made a BCF thread crying about it, then when the irrational fury subsided I realised I was a cunt and paid the fine.

I still hate ticket wardens, but the point I'm trying to make here is if you play stupid games expect to win stupid prizes.

This is the risk you took when you committed to the act. Deal with it.
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 18:30 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Invoice the police and the pound, then move on to letters before action, and then a small claim. Don't get involved in a conversation about it, just do it. You don't ask, you don't get.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 19:13 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd be pissed off if it was me.

Yes he was illegal but was prosecuted, warned or whatever happened. The punishment did not include 'Your bike shall be damaged to the tune of 1 broken fairing and scratches'.

If they had crushed his bike it would have been a court order to do it, not the whim or carelessness of a transporter crew.

Do as Roger said, letters, small claims, escalate it to the high courts and we might see the police on the wrong side of 'Can't pay, we'll take it away'. Thumbs Up
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Reckon they existed before now to recoup the funds he's had to pay which would have gone towards getting his full licence replacement fairings he's now got to try and get fresh dollar from somewhere.

What was the crime of the century?
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Keir
World Chat Champion



Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: 20:44 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
you cant possibly have legit insurance for a bike that you don't have a licence to ride!

I have no idea who motohog are or what they do but from your post it seems they have admitted it was their fault, which is very reasonable of them considering you would have had an almost impossible task of proving the damage was them otherwise. just go through their business insurance and get your bike written off Thumbs Up

youre lucky your bike wasn't crushed, id vote for that rule for unlicenced/uninsured drivers or riders if there was the option.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 21:58 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Keir wrote:
you cant possibly have legit insurance for a bike that you don't have a licence to ride!


Think it's a 125cc on L plates so all above board, chap took it on the motorway which was the issue, riding not in accordance with licence, happened to me once, except, while being on a 125cc I did have a full A cat licence.


Keir wrote:

I have no idea who motohog are or what they do but from your post it seems they have admitted it was their fault, which is very reasonable of them considering you would have had an almost impossible task of proving the damage was them otherwise. just go through their business insurance and get your bike written off Thumbs Up

youre lucky your bike wasn't crushed, id vote for that rule for unlicenced/uninsured drivers or riders if there was the option.


Motohog are a chain of car breakers (3 sites in Yorkshire) why they're involved in moving bikes to and from police seizing I do not know.

As you say, if they've admitted damage to the bike then it's time to ask what they're prepared to do about it and go from there, they may be happy to cover the damage, they might argue the toss or it might be somewhere in between.
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kgm
World Chat Champion



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PostPosted: 22:53 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Actually some insurance companies will honour the third party part of a policy even when the policy holder is driving otherwise than in accordance with the requisite license. It's only the third party part that's required to be legal so it's quite possible that the charge contrary to S143 RTA 1988 wasn't libelled.

The officers involved in a stop where the driver is contravening S87 RTA 1988 should check with the insurer via the motor insurance bureau before libelling the S143. It isn't always practical to do so at the roadside though. It's the same with MOTs - some will honour it, some won't.
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 23:24 - 24 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lol so poor obs and retardation are the reason. Fantastic.
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Untitled1995
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 27 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: 00:32 - 25 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Invoice the police and the pound, then move on to letters before action, and then a small claim. Don't get involved in a conversation about it, just do it. You don't ask, you don't get.


Will do man, thanks for the advice.

What i like about Roger is that he always gets straight to the point. No fucking around Thumbs Up

Polarbear wrote:
I'd be pissed off if it was me.

Yes he was illegal but was prosecuted, warned or whatever happened. The punishment did not include 'Your bike shall be damaged to the tune of 1 broken fairing and scratches'.

If they had crushed his bike it would have been a court order to do it, not the whim or carelessness of a transporter crew.

Do as Roger said, letters, small claims, escalate it to the high courts and we might see the police on the wrong side of 'Can't pay, we'll take it away'.


Good stuff thanks mate. What all the morons on here who say 'you broke the law, get over it' don't seem to understand is that if we all had that thought process. Then the pricks who damaged it will probably go on to carelessly do the same to many bikes down the line.

The police said to contact the impound yard, i contacted the impound yard and they said that the damage was not done by them and would have been done by Motohog because they used a car transporter. Going from this do i attempt to invoice the police, the impound or Motohog? Or do i send the invoice and letters to all 3?

Keir wrote:

I have no idea who motohog are or what they do but from your post it seems they have admitted it was their fault, which is very reasonable of them considering you would have had an almost impossible task of proving the damage was them otherwise. just go through their business insurance and get your bike written off Thumbs Up

youre lucky your bike wasn't crushed, id vote for that rule for unlicenced/uninsured drivers or riders if there was the option.


I'm lucky that my bike wasn't crushed? well if you look at the big picture i ain't so lucky. The cost of impound fees, removal and including repairs to the bike (if i pay for them) is much more than if they would have crushed it. When i say they fucked the bike up i don't think you realize the extent. Its not just paint work some of the panels are gonna need replacing.

Motohog is a auction company that auction off impounded vehicles. The impound yard said that Motohog done the damage by transporting the motorcycle on a car transporter.
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Untitled1995
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 27 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: 00:43 - 25 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wonko The Sane wrote:

Motohog are a chain of car breakers (3 sites in Yorkshire) why they're involved in moving bikes to and from police seizing I do not know.

As you say, if they've admitted damage to the bike then it's time to ask what they're prepared to do about it and go from there, they may be happy to cover the damage, they might argue the toss or it might be somewhere in between.


Motohog also handle the auctioning of impounded vehicles i believe.

Due to some health reasons and fucking around with my insurance company i wasn't able to pick the bike up for a few weeks after it was impounded.

Blood clot in my left leg and even now its not completely usable. The ride back was painful lol.

Anyway, i called the impound yard for a extension but due to me calling about 12 hours too late the motorcycle had already been passed on to Motohog to be auctioned.

I contacted Motohog and they returned the motorcycle (along with a return fee).

Then i got the motorcycle back home and noticed the damage. Called the impound and they said that Motohog caused the damage by returning the bike on a car transporter.

So the culprits Motohog have not admitted to anything, but the impound has confirmed that they caused the damage.

Hope that sums it up, didn't explain it in depth enough on the first post.

What I'm mainly pissed off with is that i paid Motohog a return fee for them to bring the bike back to the impound. Only for them to return it with a double fee of damages Shocked
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 02:18 - 25 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Untitled1995 wrote:
Yeah dickhead I'm aware of that. But having a license or not does not give them the right to fuck my bike up Rolling Eyes

Pots and kettle's kid! You did't have the 'right' t be riding on a motorway; ad YOU did so knowig you rde there at risk of being stpped, charged ad hving bike impounded. It was no 'acident' you were there, or that you gave them cause to take your bike off you!
If they were a ittle 'careless' in lookig after your pride and joy, then they will undoubtedly tell you it was inadvertant; THEY didn't set out to deliberately damage your bike... you o want bike skuffed up by some-one you dont know... DONT ride it on the effing motorway and gve them cause to take it off you! Look after your own shit kid!

Untitled1995 wrote:
The police officer taken pictures of the motorcycle when he seized the bike. So yes images do exist that proves the damage was caused in the duration of the storage period.

Oh dear, what a pitty; those photo's seem to have got lost.. some-one presed the wrong button when the camera asked if they would like to 'format memory card'.... you know, rather like your L-Plates.....

You are hardly standing on high moral ground here, are you?

Keir wrote:
you cant possibly have legit insurance for a bike that you don't have a licence to ride!


Actually a quirk of the business; third party insurance is just that; and if he has a certthat covers the bike, then the BIKE has cover, and as does any-one who rides it, whether i accordance with thier licence etitlement or other element of the RTA.

Borg could probably site the precedents; BUT, technically you CANNOT under common law, enter into a 'contract' to commit an illegal act. Its a fundemental key-stone of law; so you cant hire a hit-man to commit a murder, and have the hit man offer the defence "I was just doing what I was paid to, be breaking the law if I hadn't".. contractee, is under duty of care to act within the law regardless of any requrements of 'contract'.

On that basis, and I believe that it has been put before the courts in a couple of test cases; an isurance company could argue that they are't 'liable' for any damages or losses, IF the vehicle is being operated outside the limitations of 'law' or 'contract'... so; if a bike was excding the speed limit and crashed into a school-bus of kittens, Ins co could argue, that the rider was breakig the law, so no cover, no liability. Or if they fell off, and bike knocked down some NIMBY's cottage wall; the rider wasn't riding with Due-Care, so illegally, so not covered, as breaking the law... think about that one...

I believe that judge made ruling on that one, many many years ago, that such an argument made a nonsense of ANY mandatory 3rd party insurance, as if any vehicle that crashed and damaged any-one else's property was accepted to be the result of the 'illegal' act, of not being in full control of that vehicle, so the contract of insurance was invalid, almost no-one could actually claim against a 3rd Party policy for loss! They would have t pursue the driver, personally, for the loses .. the exact circumstance mandatory 3rd Party insurance was contrived to avoid!

So motor-insurance is actually subject to a couple of quirks, contrary to common and contract law, that are based on the principle that the whole POINT of 3rd party insurance is to indemnify the public at large against loss caused by act or omission by a vehicle operator, whether acting in or outside the law.

Consequently; a third party 'claim' takes precedence, and if a policy has been issued, is in force, wherever 'crimes' or breaches of contract might be used to suggest the insurance isn't 'valid' are redundant; and a third party claim can be made against that policy whether the vehicle is being ridden by the policy holder, or by some-one who has stolen it; whether they are riding in accordance with their licence entitlement or provisions, or not, or in accordance with the C&U regs or the RTA or any other laws, or not... 3rd party liability, has bee provided; is co have agreed to indemnify any and all 3rd party loses caused by that driver or vehicle, regardless; end of story.

THEN, comes the question of whether they may have any recourse under contract law, to pursue the policy holder, or any-one else for breach of contract or for 'negligence', having caused the Ins Co 'unreasonable' losses...

So, as long as there is a 3rd Party insurance certificate issued, that either covers the vehicle operator or the specific vehicle; then the vehicle IS insured, end of..

Once issued an insurance cert CANNOT be revoked... as long as its in circulation it is in force and they are liable.... it oly ceases to be in force whe the date expires or it is retured to the Is-Co and they shred it; which opens a can of worms as far as the MID ad the vogue ins co's have for ssig 'e-certs' that are still in something of a grey area as far as actual law goes; but still.

Point is.. if there's a cert, the there's 3rd party cover; they at seize a bike for being uninsured, if there's a policy o it, and it IS the vehicle that is registered and referenced on the cert... though thy do have many other provisions of law under which they can seize it, and I believe that general police powers do provide for them to seize any artifact instrumental in the perpetration of a crime... and a motorcycle, being ridden on the motorway by some-one with no licence would fall under that!
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Tracer1234
World Chat Champion



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PostPosted: 06:08 - 25 Jun 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote
Untitled1995 wrote:
When i say they fucked the bike up i don't think you realize the extent.


Pop a picture up of your crack then so we can see this kitten killing damage!
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