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Social status: how important is it to you?

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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 07 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now, now, be seriouse.

Smile
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B5234FT
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 07 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other issue with class is that people lie to themselves about it. Everyone is a working class hero, a self made man in their 4 bed suburban house with an Audi and a BMW outside.

They are rightfully proud of what they have achieved, but scorned when you suggest they have moved up to the middle class.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:35 - 07 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

B5234FT wrote:
The other issue with class is that people lie to themselves about it. Everyone is a working class hero, a self made man in their 4 bed suburban house with an Audi and a BMW outside.

They are rightfully proud of what they have achieved, but scorned when you suggest they have moved up to the middle class.

Have they though? As discussed for the last several pages material wealth isn't linked to class. You can be wealthy and common as muck.
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owl
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 07 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
You can be wealthy and common as muck.


Just look at most of Essex Dance!
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B5234FT
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PostPosted: 15:02 - 07 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree entirely, but many have moved up, but choose to deny it. It's no longer an aspiration.
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 15:57 - 07 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who has opinions you care about, and how do you signal to them?

In any given social group, there will be some kind of ranking, but it's often specific to the purpose of the group and not necessarily indicative of a ranking outside the social group. OTOH, you probably care more about the opinions of people within the social group than random nobodies in the rest of the world, so it's probably more, not less, important.

When you're breaking into a social group, there will be jostling to establish rank, so everyone can work out who exactly you are. That's when you need signifiers the most - whether they be material or behavioural. Once you've established yourself, the need for signifiers declines quite a bit. If you fail to establish a position, you're probably better off finding a new group of people than reset people's expectations, or at least don't try again for a few years.

Then there's the prejudices that organizations have and use to shortcut decision-making. Whether it's customer service, talking to the police, interacting with government bureaucrats, or facing justice in the courts - you'll be treated differently depending on how your signifiers categorize you in the prejudices of the people you're dealing with. It's worth being strategic here; it's better to be treated as something you don't identify with and get what you want than the other way around. If you're on the phone, it can be worthwhile being extra clear with your enunciation; if meeting officials, pay particular attention to dress and grooming; etc. OTOH, if dealing with an electrician, plumber, mechanic etc., it'll pay to be more down to earth and relatable.

As to what "class" you are, I'm not sure the word has meaning independent of how you are treated by people whose reaction you care about. I think it's useful to be different things to different people. Don't pigeonhole yourself Wink
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M.C
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PostPosted: 16:40 - 07 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

So posh accent on the phone and cockney when talking to a builder? Smile
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 07 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:


Are they really middling though? Middle Class is if you have f*** you money* or can stop all economic activity and still be able to maintain their current life style without external aid.

*pewpewdiepie had f*** you money as he could simply walk away and maintain his life style therefore could speak his mind.


Screw you money is ~100% of yearly outgoings.

hellkat wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
The scum go to the booze isle in LIDL and ALDI.


I bought a mate a three quid bottle of german wine from there; she purports to be a wine buff. So when I texted her to ask her honest opinion, she said it was "very very good".
I need to ask her face to face so I can see if she was bullshitting Laughing
I expect her and her fella probably had one mouthful, and used it to clean the toilet with.
I didn't tell her it was three quid, or where it came from cos she's a bit of a snob. Laughing


LIDL is supposedly awful, ALDI is actually pretty good. My point about the scum going there is because that's where all of the alcoholics buy their booze.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 09:41 - 08 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps it depends on whether you prefer watching The Only Way is Essex, or Made in Chelsea.

Both accents make me gnaw my knuckles in angst, but tend towards Chelsea as being the less insulting sound to my shell-likes Laughing
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 09:55 - 08 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Status, or status signalling? Thinking

I come from middle class roots in a working class scummy town. Always left me a bit lost overseas as the English speakers are always middle class, due to education and aspiration.

But therein lies the next point, the ower of the holy trinity…

Ambition, Competence and Intellect.

I suspect we disdain those with a significantly lower figure on those as beneath us, and personal wealth could be a good rough indicator of those three Thinking

But, fyi, status seems to be more about elevation in dominance heirarchies and increasing responsibility, such that a CEO ishigher status than a better paid fund manager.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 10:09 - 08 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
As discussed for the last several pages material wealth isn't linked to class. You can be wealthy and common as muck.

A classic behaviour of that type is how they treat waiting staff.

Rude to waiters = nouveau riche: all the gear, no idea
Polite to waiters but disinterested in them beyond people who bring the vittles = old money

I quite like the old money eccentrics. They aren't really all that fussed who you are, even though they know you're NQOCD, so they'll talk to you quite candidly and they often remember exactly who you are when you return into their world.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 10:12 - 08 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:
pertinent stuff
^^^ classic example of the type of person I naturally gravitate towards Laughing Laughing
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M.C
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PostPosted: 10:27 - 08 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:
Status, or status signalling? Thinking

I come from middle class roots in a working class scummy town. Always left me a bit lost overseas as the English speakers are always middle class, due to education and aspiration.

I find I'm not 'common' enough to be one of the working class lads, but still too common to be accepted by any other class. I is all alone Crying or Very sad
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 11:28 - 08 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think in-groups and social divisions will always exist. Particularly at the moment (or perhaps for a while now) it seems easy to point at rich people as 'the bad group'. For a long time it's seemed to be much cooler/easier to talk about how poor you are or how hard you work/worked for something, rather than admitting being wealthy whether through hard work or idle inheritance. Overall it never seems impressive to boast of how wealthy you are. Not sure if it's a British cultural thing, or a general human trait.

That's just in general society though, in an 'everyday interaction' sense. I think terms of finding employment in the UK, though it may not necessarily be perfect, we do a pretty good job of treating people on merit, experience and requirement. I certainly haven't known anyone who ever complained of workplace troubles because of their perceived social status.

Generally these days it's more a case of just not being too much of a dickhead.

There is still definitely an ultra-rich class who are in something of a bubble though. The ones we call 'Tarquins', who stereotypically end up at Eton then Oxbridge, then walk into top political jobs or similar. David Cameron and George Osborne spring to mind. 99% of the UK aren't like this though.

From a more personal standpoint, I like to think I've seen a fair variety of 'social class' positions in my own life. My mum's side of the family are (or were) ultra-rich, posh-talking, cigar-smoking aristocratic types of yesteryear who you barely see in existence any more. My dad's side are all working class types from up in Greenock. As a kid I saw a lot of the wealthy side (not financially - my dad had his own job which he'd worked up from scratch - but I rubbed shoulders with them a lot), then bad things happened and we spent a fair few years not even being able to afford heating in a cold rented farmhouse in a field in in the middle of nowhere. I often wonder how my life would have gone if things were a little different. For example, my cousin was paid £35k a year of illegitimately funnelled family business funds to 'help her get by' during university. Meanwhile my brothers and I went to work at supermarkets etc to save up for whatever little things we wanted in life, and my parents had close to naff all for about a decade. Through this experience, I know there is the overly-rich-and-undeserving class of society out there, but aside from that I don't see any huge difference between those on low, middle or even 'fairly high' incomes. We're all just proles trying to get by.

That's my Penny Coin Penny Coin
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 12:03 - 08 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there no-one left in the world who is just comfortable with who they are anymore?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 12:05 - 08 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's definitely a who had it worse off competitiveness amongst poorer people, I guess if it was who was best off that would be a short argument Smile Can't say I hear people talking about how hard they worked for something, new cars etc. are normally purchased on finance, the last time was probably someone I know saying he had to save for ages for a car (save his benefits Rolling Eyes). The same muppet used to moan about his JSA being taxed.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:19 - 08 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
Is there no-one left in the world who is just comfortable with who they are anymore?

Some selection bias may be evident in this thread.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 15:59 - 08 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm reasonably comfortable in my own skin.
Probably BECAUSE I float between all levels of the Brit social strata.

I'd like to be better off, financially.
But that's about all.
At the moment ... Shifty
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 08 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although my acceptance of the underclass relies heavily upon my acceptance that "a bit of gentle lawbreaking growing weed for fun and profit" counts in the modern idiom as "work".

Laughing
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 19:12 - 08 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuffin Nora wrote:

Harrrrrumph.


Shocked

My mate Tigger Alldus used to use this expression A LOT on the internet before he karked it.
You're not his reincarnation, are you?

Shocked
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:38 - 08 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellkat wrote:
You're not his reincarnation, are you?

I will award one hundred Internets to anyone who has the slightest clue why I'm posting this:

https://i.imgur.com/bMuNNJo.gif
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dodsi
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PostPosted: 20:59 - 08 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the lower middle and working classes are now very merged, it's also very difficult in some cases to judge somebody's wealth. People can drive a new car and be immaculately presented in designer clothing presenting wealth but actually none of it is 'owned'. Often these types don't really have any wealth and are just wannabe middle class types.

But you cannot tell, other people like my parents who were working class now although having paid off their mortgage and generally been careful with money always seem to have plenty of money although they don't present themselves as they do - my dad will buy outright a nearly new car about every decade. They often have issues trying to buy expensive things because they don't get taken seriously by sales staff because of the way they present.

Myself, I'm somewhere between the two, I think because of the opportunities afforded to me by my parents I would have to say I have become begrudgingly middle class. Probably more to do with marrying someone who is also a professional type so it affords us the middle class lifestyle although I feel like an imposter because of my working class morals. But then I also feel like an imposter when with working class types who don't have the things I have or the holidays etc so Sharing those experiences with those people can make me feel like a bit of a posh bellend.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 08 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote


...
Rogerborg wrote:
hellkat wrote:
You're not his reincarnation, are you?

I will award one hundred Internets to anyone who has the slightest clue why I'm posting this:

https://i.imgur.com/bMuNNJo.gif



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hellkat
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 08 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you attending BBQ, Mr Borg?
If yes, then do remember to Mind Your Back bring my 100 internets and I'll arrange for them to be collected.

I'll have them in used banknotes, thanks.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 17:32 - 11 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
There's definitely a who had it worse off competitiveness amongst poorer people, I guess if it was who was best off that would be a short argument Smile Can't say I hear people talking about how hard they worked for something, new cars etc. are normally purchased on finance, the last time was probably someone I know saying he had to save for ages for a car (save his benefits Rolling Eyes). The same muppet used to moan about his JSA being taxed.


I don't agree, people are always convinced theyve worked their nuts off for what they have. The absurd thing is that so much of what they "have" is illusory. House mortgaged, car on PCP, holiday on the credit card, clothes on a store card etc. Also looking at productivity figures people aren't working that hard, apparently we're around %30+ less productive than the Germans. Or we put so much effort trying to buy crap we cant afford we don't have energy left ovet to actually produce anything of worth.
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The last post was made 6 years, 262 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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