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What would you say to a younger you?

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Omega
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PostPosted: 03:13 - 23 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

biker7 wrote:
I retired at 53. Had 20 bikes since then. Def 43 is the absolute max - you are still young enough to feel young. Dying men rarely say, "I wish I'd worked more!" Buy houses, do up, buy more. Retire young. Working with those you hate is not fun. Ride the biggest fastest best bike as soon as you can. Better a young king than an old prince. But most of all, take all the young women who beg. One day there will only be memories and lots of old ladies.


IMO advising people to buy houses now because it worked 20 years ago is like advising someone to buy Apple and Microsoft shares now because that also worked 20 years ago.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 04:19 - 23 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't tell myself to not do any of the things I've done because I really think every experience helps to make you.

Given my current career trajectory, which I've only just started, I'd probably teach the curious, malleable-brained, quick-learning, child version of myself (mid-90s) about basic software/web development. In those days it was no doubt far less complicated but far more employable once you knew a bit of it. I'd have got into the industry far earlier and would be earning a fortune by now.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 07:40 - 23 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

That girl who met you to go swimming at the local baths, who walked the 5 miles to your house sharing a bag of chips, who wanted you to walk the extra 500 yards to the bus stop. She wanted you and wanted you big time. Idiot.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 11:21 - 23 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

barrkel wrote:


But if you could choose your parents, that would be my advice: choose differently.


So, what you're saying is, you would tell your kid to choose parents other than you?
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TheSmiler
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 23 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do not give any money to your brother and don't feel guilty of not giving him any. Doing that I'd have the mortgage almost paid off now.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 12:45 - 23 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

barrkel wrote:
I think there's two classes of advice one could give: don't do that bad thing, or do do this good thing.

Advice to not do the bad thing is predicated on it being done between younger you and you today, so that advice isn't broadly applicable.

Advice on doing the good thing is tough. If you had a hard time figuring out what to do with your life, what you were good at, then advice on what to seek out would help, but it's still not broadly applicable.

Time-travelling advice difficulty is compounded by the lack of context and agency that young people often have. It's all very well to recommend to make more out of opportunities, but often that takes skill and knowledge, not just a suggestion. You have to recognize an opportunity when it comes, and know that it's decent (to avoid opportunity cost), which requires calibration, which young people don't have until they're older. See the Secretary problem for a mathematical way to think about this.

On lack of agency: the standard treadmill for young people goes school, college (course chosen based on aptitude and interest), job (chosen based on education and interest), life partner, house, children, etc. What we do is path-dependent on how we arrived at that point, all the way back to choices our parents made. But you can't advise selecting your parents!

The single biggest thing that would have helped me in my early days isn't anything I could advise my early self to do; it would have been to be mentored by a well-placed professional in industry. What could have helped make that happen? Living in a different area, parents with a different social circle, going to a different school and making friends with children who had relevant parents, etc. There isn't much actionable here, beyond writing personal letters to people I had no personal connection to, or even knew how to find the addresses of.

But if you could choose your parents, that would be my advice: choose differently. Not because the ones I had did anything wrong in particular, but rather that their life choices were quite a distance away from what would have been best for how I turned out (not in any way they could have predicted).

I would have liked to have grown up somewhere different (as in less shit), I guess cos I see now how early you're destined for nothing. As a piece of advice though, if I told a 14/15 year old me to runaway I'd probably end up a rent boy or something Very Happy Different parents would have been nice, it's truly amazing how indifferent some people can be towards their own offspring, not that I'm one of these snowflakes who blame them for everything but if you're going to have children at least try to give a shit about them.

There's always the possibility things could have turned out worse. I realise although the urban education's a bit shit, it's a lot worse in other parts of the country, where there isn't the political pressure to invest in dindus. Probably would have had less people trying to rob me somewhere else though Rolling Eyes

Anyhoo dwelling on the past doesn't change anything, it can be useful to identify where you've gone wrong, and try to avoid making the same mistakes (normally that's ignoring my instincts/intuition about something), but the only thing you can influence's tomorrow.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 18:19 - 23 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my work i actually meet examples of my younger self. Its wierd you can only go so far with advice. Its much better to look at where that younger person is lacking in a skill and just subtlety encourage them to develop it.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 18:39 - 23 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
In my work i actually meet examples of my younger self. Its wierd you can only go so far with advice.

Don't park outside a... Laughing
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 19:47 - 23 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:

Given my current career trajectory, which I've only just started, I'd probably teach the curious, malleable-brained, quick-learning, child version of myself (mid-90s) about basic software/web development. In those days it was no doubt far less complicated but far more employable once you knew a bit of it. I'd have got into the industry far earlier and would be earning a fortune by now.


Or you would have realised it is a crap profession with little future and got into something better earlier on Laughing

All the best

Katy
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 23:49 - 23 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once wanted to be a jet airliner mechanic, and I still wish I'd tried to get into that line of work.

The only thing I really want to do now is drive huge diesel powered vehicles on road or rail. I'd have probably enjoyed working on building roads and railways too and operating big heavy plant machinery too.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 01:53 - 24 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:

Or you would have realised it is a crap profession with little future and got into something better earlier on Laughing


How so? Everywhere I look, information and opinions tell me the industry is only going to continue expanding or at least stay stable. Better than anything I've done before anyway - shelf stacking and manual labour jobs.

Interesting read here: https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2017
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 19:17 - 24 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:

How so? Everywhere I look, information and opinions tell me the industry is only going to continue expanding or at least stay stable. Better than anything I've done before anyway - shelf stacking and manual labour jobs.


In the UK it is smaller than 20 years ago, and not really expanding (beyond a few more people moving around). Pay hasn't gone up in real terms for a long time (in effect I am on about the same money as 25 years ago, and that is about normal levels of pay in both cases), while T&Cs have gone down.

Coding jobs for many major companies have moved to cheap locations (India and China, or if kept in Europe then Poland).

Web stuff is more down to being able to produce a pretty looking front end, with not much care about how good the back end is (how many public web sites are based on Wordpress? And that is something adequate for what it was designed for, but now used for general things which requires major bodges to useful things). Few places seem to care about solid and efficient back end code.

If you want to keep a job in a cheap economy like China then maybe. But don't expect it to stay cheap for long hence jobs moving to cheaper locations (already happening with coding jobs in India).

Doesn't help that we are now decades into diminishing returns on investment in IT. 30 years ago a major investment in a new system would be rapidly paid back in reduced costs. These days probably a similar investment in real terms, and minimal return when replacing existing systems which might not be pretty by current standards but which do the job.

Lord Percy wrote:


Yep, and you can get a job within a year of starting to code. Hence the lack of any real progression (and that might explain some of the complete lack of concept of maintaining older code these days).

All the best

Katy
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 19:24 - 24 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Yep, and you can get a job within a year of starting to code.

And your skills are fresher than that obsolete old geezer who's been doing it for 5 years.

Spoiler: in 4 years, you'll be him.

I agree, it's not a career that I'd advise getting into, but that's mostly because I don't want the competition.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 24 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question for the codies, why don't you come up with a killer app or some shit? Nobcat® the game or something.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 24 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Question for the codies, why don't you come up with a killer app or some shit? Nobcat® the game or something.


They do whine a lot dont they. Its either "its shite i should be a miwwionaire by now" or "we're the future and the only ones who will have a job when the robots we code take over". Very Happy

Interesting how this thread which started as somewhat philosophical has dissolved into just a wish I had a different job thread.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 20:42 - 24 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Question for the codies, why don't you come up with a killer app or some shit? Nobcat® the game or something.


A lot comes down to luck, or being in the right place at the right time.

Eg, look at Facebook. Relatively simple code (a small team could code the basics of it quite quickly, scaling it is a bit of effort), but no chance one that was knocked up would succeed as the real value is the number of people using it.

All the best

Katy
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:51 - 24 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
just a wish I had a different job thread.

Nope, I'm very happy. I can't imagine making a living parasiting from the miserable failures of society, for example.
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Blah blah
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 24 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just because everyone else says it's what you should do (or not do) and it's the sensible thing to do (or not do), you don't have to if you don't want to.

And...

Make that call you idiot, do it now
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:00 - 24 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
M.C wrote:
Question for the codies, why don't you come up with a killer app or some shit? Nobcat® the game or something.


A lot comes down to luck, or being in the right place at the right time.

Eg, look at Facebook. Relatively simple code (a small team could code the basics of it quite quickly, scaling it is a bit of effort), but no chance one that was knocked up would succeed as the real value is the number of people using it.

All the best

Katy

Social networking's genius, get the mongtards to produce their own content Clapping The killer comes with running costs, it wouldn't work without significant investment. Where I think failbook's success came about was that they realised everyone on myspace was having to pretend to be creative. On FB you just upload a picture of your fat face and away you go.

Twitter I've never understood, I first heard about it in 2008 and ooh Stephen Fry uses it, I thought it was like a shit version of texting. YouTube's creators deserve their millions, they created the best video streaming site and didn't fill it with adverts Thumbs Up

Anyhoo what I was getting at was surely you code monkeys could produce something relatively simple, not a full on social network, but something like the keep calm carry on app. I have lots of ideas if you're willing to do literally all the work and share 50% of the profits:

The Careful now app - monitors your driving in real time and tells you what highway code rule you've infringed upon. Feedback's exclusively in Klingon.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 22:24 - 24 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Ribenapigeon wrote:
just a wish I had a different job thread.

Nope, I'm very happy. I can't imagine making a living parasiting from the miserable failures of society, for example.


Jings, calm down I didn't mean it personally. Smile
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:55 - 24 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eh, when all UK jobs are outsourced or done by Elbonians, I'll be on your client list. Wink
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 23:47 - 24 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Eh, when all UK jobs are outsourced or done by Elbonians, I'll be on your client list. Wink


We don't take on clients that challenging Laughing
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 01:53 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:


In the UK it is smaller than 20 years ago, and not really expanding (beyond a few more people moving around). Pay hasn't gone up in real terms for a long time (in effect I am on about the same money as 25 years ago, and that is about normal levels of pay in both cases), while T&Cs have gone down.


Would you say it's actually so bad that there's no point getting into it? Or is it simply that it isn't as good as before, but still it's not that bad compared to a lot of other areas? Specially for a computer nerd who's spent enough years in front of a screen that he'd gladly be paid any reasonable sum for it anyway.

Quote:

Coding jobs for many major companies have moved to cheap locations (India and China, or if kept in Europe then Poland).

Web stuff is more down to being able to produce a pretty looking front end, with not much care about how good the back end is (how many public web sites are based on Wordpress? And that is something adequate for what it was designed for, but now used for general things which requires major bodges to useful things). Few places seem to care about solid and efficient back end code.

If you want to keep a job in a cheap economy like China then maybe. But don't expect it to stay cheap for long hence jobs moving to cheaper locations (already happening with coding jobs in India).

Doesn't help that we are now decades into diminishing returns on investment in IT. 30 years ago a major investment in a new system would be rapidly paid back in reduced costs. These days probably a similar investment in real terms, and minimal return when replacing existing systems which might not be pretty by current standards but which do the job.

Lord Percy wrote:


Yep, and you can get a job within a year of starting to code. Hence the lack of any real progression (and that might explain some of the complete lack of concept of maintaining older code these days).

All the best

Katy


Fair points. Good thing I'm in China then Dance! (for now).

M.C wrote:
Anyhoo what I was getting at was surely you code monkeys could produce something relatively simple, not a full on social network, but something like the keep calm carry on app. I have lots of ideas if you're willing to do literally all the work and share 50% of the profits:

The Careful now app - monitors your driving in real time and tells you what highway code rule you've infringed upon. Feedback's exclusively in Klingon.


Not that it's happened to me yet but apparently it's a pet hate of programmers, when a non-programming chum rocks up with their big idea that'll make millions: "You do all the work and I'll take the intellectual rights to the idea." Almost everything has been done before or is actually a terrible idea. The 'relatively simple' stuff these days is done by hobbyists in their spare time for fun or for self-motivated CV material. I made a relatively simple budgeting app for Android, plus a couple of other things, which I'm fairly certain is what got me my current job.

As far as I can tell in my noob experience, the majority of actual programming work seems to be aimed at organisations who want some software, an app or website to complement their real-life product or service, with actual substance, that isn't contained solely within an application or website. E.g. the place I'm at now is working on a big new website for a school.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 02:03 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignore common sense and take that job offer as first mate on a boat to run blood diamonds. Shhh! Tut Tut
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 10:15 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't waste your time worrying about stuff. Almost everything you worry about won't happen, and the shit that does happen will come out of the blue.

Your gut instinct is usually right. Listen to it.

And watch that waistline.
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