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stevo as b4
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Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: 18:56 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

asta1 wrote:


I can say with some certainty that no one on this forum will ever own a P1, but if they wanted an H2R, a second mortgage and an understanding spouse could make that dream reality, even for a filthy commoner...


The above statement IMO entirely depends on who made the P1?

If it says Mclaren on the back you may have a point, but if it says Subaru then much less so. Also the Subaru version is probably a good deal rarer sight in the UK too.

Oh and way off topic, but the Japanese P1 would probably appreciate far faster than the H2 for some considerable time too.
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 19:58 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
you don't need a Triumph Trophy to tour/get around on - 1.1 Fiesta will do much better!

Only if you spring for the satnav. Hand
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Kris
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Joined: 03 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 20:20 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:

£6.5k for a new superbike in 2004 Kris?
The R1 rrp was listed at £9399 that I can see.


Got a November 2003 BIKE infront of me and R1s are 8.7k with GSXRs, Blades and ZX9s listed as 8.3k rrp.

(Although back then you could phone 3 dealers and get 3 different prices. The R1 was the best seller in 2004 by the way too.)

How much is an R1 these days? RRP of 17.6k? So roughly double the November 2003 listed prices. I know my industry's wages haven't doubled.
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stevo as b4
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Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was the late 90's that were the stupid deals right at the height of the parallel days.

New Fireblades, at about £7200, YZF600 £4699, Bandit 1200N £5300 etc etc. Even in 2001 I only payed £4850 for my J1 ZX6R. It was only the R6 and GSXR 600K that were over a grand more.
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 25 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The price I had was taken from a VD article of the year - makes sense they'd have bumped the price up in 2004 with a big revamp.

Current RRP is £15,799.00 - so a 68% increase over 13 years.
(Cheapest seems to be £15k new with a very quick look.)


A Fiesta was advertised as 'from' £8995. Now £12715. So not as a big a jump, but not insignificant either at 41.3%. Both have got lots more electronics added - however the base Fiesta actually has less power than 13 years ago, while the R1 has significantly more to justify the bigger increase. Go up to a proportional increase in power for a low cc engine and you get a similar increase in price.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 08:18 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:


Current RRP is £15,799.00 - so a 68% increase over 13 years.
(Cheapest seems to be £15k new with a very quick look.)



Using rrp even though no-one was paying full list price for a 2003 R1 either, due to awaiting a revamp etc.

So end of 2003 list price = £8799
Start of 2017 list price = £15799

Increase of 79.55% in 13 years, 6 months say. And that's not including the top-spec R1M that is also available for a 120% increase over the '03 R1.

Wages between those times in my example have increased by just 40%, that's with constant year-on-year 'below inflation' wage increases.

I think bikes actually represent decent value for money, it's just everything has increased in price at a higher rate than wages - ergo the rise of PCP.
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dsolds
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Joined: 22 Jun 2017
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PostPosted: 11:14 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

As above, cheap money is the reason. PCP, Hire Purchase, Contract Hire and low interest rates are the perfect recipe for price inflation. If someone had to hand over 10 grand of their hard earned they would think a lot longer and harder than if they have to pay 200 quid a month for 3 years and then give the machine back.

Historically this came about in the late 80's when rules were relaxed on motor finance. Before that it was law to have a maximum 3 year term and a 20% (I think) deposit. Leases were leases, no option to purchase and HP was a straight 3 year deal. None of this 99 quid down and ride away.

So if the deal cost per month is what matters to the buyer then the actual list price is irrelevant, hence why prices have gone up so much. The manufacturers can (and do) charge what the market will stand. Just look at the new price of a Range Rover for confirmation, the Vogue STARTS at 75 grand for the basic model but it doesn't matter when the lease costs is what everyone is looking at. It just screws over people like me who tend to pay cash. But remember, the monthly lease cost takes into account the residual value as well, so that serves to keep secondhand prices higher than they really ought to be, so a double whammy for cash buyers.

As for a Fester costing over 15k, WTF is that all about? Shocked Shocked I thought it was supposed to be a cheap little runabout. Clearly not the way the price monkeys see things.
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chickenstrip
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Joined: 06 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: 11:20 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:


Got a November 2003 BIKE infront of me and R1s are 8.7k with GSXRs, Blades and ZX9s listed as 8.3k rrp.


Fazer 1000 went into the showrooms at £8k in 2001 Shocked
MT10 now at just 3 grand more, kind of puts that into perspective!
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 11:26 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
due to awaiting a revamp etc.

I took the 2004 as it was previously discussed and conveniently was the new model, rather than the last of an older line, where they typically keep the price down.
As for the M - you could get an SP version in 2006, which took you to £14 - though a bit of a different proposition to the M.
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 12:55 - 26 Jul 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

dsolds wrote:
The manufacturers can (and do) charge what the market will stand

Tru dat.

We'd been hearing for years that there was almost no margin on new bikes, especially at the low end.

Then the MT-07 came out nearly a grand cheaper than the ER-6N and SFV650, Kawasaki and Suzuki collectively soiled their beds and miraculously managed to price match it in short order.

Or the WK 650 which released at £4400 + OTR but plummeted as low as £3300 to try and shift them. The Eurobollocks model is currently asking £4800, but you'd be a mug to go for it until it's back down to its real price again.
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