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Ste
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Rogerborg
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chickenstrip
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 Posted: 16:34 - 27 Jul 2017  Post subject: |
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I do (don't) feel sorry for the younger generations, and the nightmare world they are building for themselves.
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Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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| vanderbale |
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vanderbale
Borekit Bruiser
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chickenstrip
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Posted: 16:50 - 27 Jul 2017  Post subject: |
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| vanderbale wrote: | | 155mph wrote: | Doesn't the Treasury raise significant revenue from the sale of petrol and diesel? How would they plug that hole? |
Lots of money will be saved as less of us will suffer from serious health conditions, although it's possible the Tory twats will have privatised the NHS completely by 2040. |
I have complete confidence in those running the NHS to ensure that it's one bottomless pit that will never be plugged, even after all disease has been eradicated forever, and immortality for all has been achieved. Especially if the Tory twats have privatised it by 2040, or Labour are in power.
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Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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| B5234FT |
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B5234FT
Brolly Dolly
Joined: 28 Sep 2009
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Posted: 17:08 - 27 Jul 2017  Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | | B5234FT wrote: | Well they wouldnt, they'd plug in at home and charge overnight utilising the quiet time on the grid and cheaper electricity. |
Why are you so racist against everyone who doesn't have a garage? |
Garage, Driveway, local car park, metered 13A outlets on lamp posts, come on, a little imagination beyond the ludicrous idea of everyone getting up 40 minutes early for work to simultaneously charge every car in the country
22 years ago the state of the art was things like the P38 range rover. Now a 1.6 focus has the same features and spec and it all actually works properly.
22 years ago, the base level of transport was a Corsa B or a Fiesta Mk4 and your travelling salesman drove a cavalier. ABS was optional and special enough that people stuck badges on the boot and traction control basically closed the throttle completely. 16 valves was rare and good turbo diesels didnt really exist yet.
Outwith cars, 22 years ago, The matrix hadnt been made yet, the first text message was sent two years ago (1993) and it would be another two years (1997) before we got digital telecomms. A state of the art phone was this:
https://cloud10.todocoleccion.online/segunda-mano/tc/2013/02/01/35567287.jpg
And back then people said things like:
"who would ever want a mobile phone, I don't need one"
"The battery life is awful, its just a fad"
"The infrastructure isnt there, if enough people buy then then they'll be useless as youll never be able to make a call"
22 years is a massive amount of time, especially once electric cars stop being an R&D project and become a product. |
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AshWebster
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doggone
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ScaredyCat
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Suntan Sid
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Mawsley
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iooi
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| B5234FT |
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B5234FT
Brolly Dolly
Joined: 28 Sep 2009
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| Posted: 09:37 - 28 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| doggone wrote: | | B5234FT wrote: | [
And back then people said things like:
"who would ever want a mobile phone, I don't need one"
"The battery life is awful, its just a fad"
"The infrastructure isnt there, if enough people buy then then they'll be useless as youll never be able to make a call"
|
And you still can't in a lot of places e.g. here North York Moors because they don't want to know about areas with fewer people - same goes for fibre broadband, after suggesting funding might be forthcoming for about 10 years they essential say nope you will have to install something yourself.
The same thing will happen with electric cars, there won't be places you can top up without going ten miles if your own charging set up fails for any reason. |
You can charge it off a 13A socket, albeit at a lower rate. It's not like you're going to wind up stuck. Motorway services are every 25 miles and that never causes an issue. My nearest fuel station at home is 12 miles away. You plan around it.
Im surprised at the moaning given this is a bike forum and almost no one here had a range of more than 200 miles and regularly visit wales, scotland etc and have to plan fuel stops.
| ScaredyCat wrote: |
It's not 'quiet time' if everyone is doing it. |
Agreed, it means instead of seeing two blips a day the usage is more uniform and night time demand will be as much as day, which is actually better for power quality. Sure it means more generating capacity, but it doesnt really mean more grid capacity; if we can cope with everyone showering, or turning on their kettles simultaneously then overnight charging is fine.
| Suntan Sid wrote: | ]
Still sayin' it, still don't need one!  |
Yep, just like some people dont need cars, or actually like busses, but you're part of a tiny minority. The vast majority of the naysayers from 1995 now own a device with a 4-5 inch screen which is permanently connected to everything. |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Codezombie |
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Codezombie
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Posted: 11:11 - 28 Jul 2017  Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | | B5234FT wrote: | Motorway services are every 25 miles and that never causes an issue. |
Because you can "charge" a fossil fuel vehicle at about 100 miles per minute.
| B5234FT wrote: | Im surprised at the moaning given this is a bike forum and almost no one here had a range of more than 200 miles and regularly visit wales, scotland etc and have to plan fuel stops. |
At 100 miles a minute.
Do you have a link to your trip report for an electric vehicle tour? |
Last trip to Wales I did was from Leicester to Tretower, stopped at Hereford for half hour to quick charge the bike and have some lunch, then finished up at Tretower for the weekend, fully charging the bike again at the local pub which has a charge point (Cider Mill nr Tretower) then back home via the same route.
Yeah the half hour or so charge is a pain, but hardly a show stopper either. Though I'll be happier when Zero puts decent quick charging gear in the bike itself, so I don't have to lug around the fast charger.  (plus using the quick charger is a faff cos you have to hand fit all the cables to the auxiliary port on the battery pack at the moment, electric biking for distance riding is still a bit of an proper enthusiast thing, and not recommended for casual weekend bikers at the moment)
I keep meaning to do a run down the whole country on the damn thing, as the charging infrastructure is far more than adequate, and the bike has got the legs to do it, but real life keeps getting in the way.
Current state of charging points in the country.
https://www.zap-map.com/live/
(4000 locations with 13,000 plugs between them, most of them even work these days!)
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| B5234FT |
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B5234FT
Brolly Dolly
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| Posted: 11:51 - 28 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | | B5234FT wrote: | Motorway services are every 25 miles and that never causes an issue. |
Because you can "charge" a fossil fuel vehicle at about 100 miles per minute.
| B5234FT wrote: | Im surprised at the moaning given this is a bike forum and almost no one here had a range of more than 200 miles and regularly visit wales, scotland etc and have to plan fuel stops. |
At 100 miles a minute.
Do you have a link to your trip report for an electric vehicle tour? |
Indeed, but who does? Sure, I've done trips in the past where I've driven 500 miles non stop and only stopped because I ran out of fuel (stupid frankly), but most trips now I do a couple of hours and stop for a break, I'll almost certainly stop for a meal, be that breakfast, lunch or dinner in the course of a 400 mile journey. Likewise most of the people moaning about this also park their vehicle many times in the course of their 400 mile tank range.
The current EV tech allows me to leave home, drive 200 miles, fill in an hour and drive another 200, the only difference is Im leaving my car on the charger instead of 10 mins in the petrol station and then moving it to a carpark, ergo the carpark needs chargers.
Given the decrease in charge times in the recent past, in 22 years time I suspect you'' be charging in less time than you are now.
By contrast, on my commute I fill the car weekly and the bike every 1.5 days, which is a detour and a pain. If they were electric I'd never need to as the round trip is comfortably within range and I'd leave home fully charged every morning.
Last edited by B5234FT on 11:59 - 28 Jul 2017; edited 1 time in total |
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B5234FT
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| Posted: 11:57 - 28 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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| Codezombie wrote: |
Last trip to Wales I did was from Leicester to Tretower, stopped at Hereford for half hour to quick charge the bike and have some lunch, then finished up at Tretower for the weekend, fully charging the bike again at the local pub which has a charge point (Cider Mill nr Tretower) then back home via the same route.
Yeah the half hour or so charge is a pain, but hardly a show stopper either. Though I'll be happier when Zero puts decent quick charging gear in the bike itself, so I don't have to lug around the fast charger. (plus using the quick charger is a faff cos you have to hand fit all the cables to the auxiliary port on the battery pack at the moment, electric biking for distance riding is still a bit of an proper enthusiast thing, and not recommended for casual weekend bikers at the moment)
I keep meaning to do a run down the whole country on the damn thing, as the charging infrastructure is far more than adequate, and the bike has got the legs to do it, but real life keeps getting in the way.
Current state of charging points in the country.
https://www.zap-map.com/live/
(4000 locations with 13,000 plugs between them, most of them even work these days!) |
I assume you werent actually hungry and had you been on a conventional bike, you would simply have done a splash and dash and ridden the rest of the way on an empty stomach as Roger is suggesting? 
The range of ICE vehicles is unecessary, and beyond the comfortable endurance of normal people. it's not like were talking 40 miles and then charge all night, were talking 200 miles, which is three hours minimum, after which one should be stopping for a break anyway. Half an hour will see you at 80% and off for another 150 miles which is two hours and time for another break. It's only inconvenient if you're already driving unsafely. |
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Codezombie
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Posted: 12:10 - 28 Jul 2017  Post subject: |
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| B5234FT wrote: | | Codezombie wrote: |
Last trip to Wales I did was from Leicester to Tretower, stopped at Hereford for half hour to quick charge the bike and have some lunch, then finished up at Tretower for the weekend, fully charging the bike again at the local pub which has a charge point (Cider Mill nr Tretower) then back home via the same route.
Yeah the half hour or so charge is a pain, but hardly a show stopper either. Though I'll be happier when Zero puts decent quick charging gear in the bike itself, so I don't have to lug around the fast charger. (plus using the quick charger is a faff cos you have to hand fit all the cables to the auxiliary port on the battery pack at the moment, electric biking for distance riding is still a bit of an proper enthusiast thing, and not recommended for casual weekend bikers at the moment)
I keep meaning to do a run down the whole country on the damn thing, as the charging infrastructure is far more than adequate, and the bike has got the legs to do it, but real life keeps getting in the way.
Current state of charging points in the country.
https://www.zap-map.com/live/
(4000 locations with 13,000 plugs between them, most of them even work these days!) |
I assume you werent actually hungry and had you been on a conventional bike, you would simply have done a splash and dash and ridden the rest of the way on an empty stomach as Roger is suggesting?
The range of ICE vehicles is unecessary, and beyond the comfortable endurance of normal people. it's not like were talking 40 miles and then charge all night, were talking 200 miles, which is three hours minimum, after which one should be stopping for a break anyway. Half an hour will see you at 80% and off for another 150 miles which is two hours and time for another break. It's only inconvenient if you're already driving unsafely. |
I wasn't massively hungry no 
But the bike was starving 
If I wanted to do a splash and dash I'd have just taken the Divvy though, so yeah I was experimenting with the feasibility of long distance riding on the Zero at the time. Turns out the small size of the Zero was more of a hindrance as I could fit less camping gear on it...
The range on electric bikes is far too short to do proper touring at the moment to be honest, and to be very very honest, the Zero is really not suited to it, which is why actually touring on one is a sort of perverse fun.
Still the range issue looks to be changing. Looking over the specs for the new batteries being manufactured by the company that makes the ones used in the Zero, they have around over 50% more power (350 wh/kg* over 185 wh/kg ) based on the paper they submitted last year. So the short legs is going to be less of an issue. The new cells seem like they can be charged three times faster as well.
(*according to the research paper, take with the appropriate pinch of salt)
Info is here if you are into that sort of thing.
Data sheet for the older current batteries
https://www.cdiweb.com/datasheets/ctc-battery/FEI-DataSheet-IMP06160230P25A-Pouch-25Ah-v5.pdf
Research paper for the new batteries (rumor is these are in full production, but not yet available for general sale)
https://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2016/06/f32/es213_kepler_2016_o_web.pdf
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Polarbear
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Itchy
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| Codezombie |
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Codezombie
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| Posted: 15:15 - 28 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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I never said it was free, most charge by the hour now, or more rarely by the kWh delivered. Which is way better than free as the suppliers are more motivated to keep the charging stations working.
If you rock up to a charge station it likely to be a POLAR one, as they are the most common*, a type 2 fast charging socket is £1.70 an hour + £1.20 connection fee, which is pretty hard to compare to petrol as that can be anything from 1kWh to 42kWh depending on your vehicles charge rate. If you are member of POLAR it quite a bit cheaper, as long as you use more than eight hours of public charging a month.
As I barely use eight hours a year, I go for the pleb rate.
(* unless you are on the motorway, then its Ecotricity, but I've no idea what they cost as I never use them )
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M.C
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iooi
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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| Posted: 21:30 - 28 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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A random selection of 10 or so shows quite a few charging points have connector issues, are out of order for other reasons (one was said not to exist!) or are only available to employees, hotel guests, etc. Also OK if you're a rare electric vehicle user. Not so if you imagine electric vehicles arriving at the same rate as IC vehicles at a busy service station.
| Codezombie wrote: | Still the range issue looks to be changing. Looking over the specs for the new batteries being manufactured by the company that makes the ones used in the Zero, they have around over 50% more power (350 wh/kg* over 185 wh/kg ) based on the paper they submitted last year. So the short legs is going to be less of an issue. The new cells seem like they can be charged three times faster as well.
(*according to the research paper, take with the appropriate pinch of salt)
Info is here if you are into that sort of thing.
Data sheet for the older current batteries
https://www.cdiweb.com/datasheets/ctc-battery/FEI-DataSheet-IMP06160230P25A-Pouch-25Ah-v5.pdf
Research paper for the new batteries (rumor is these are in full production, but not yet available for general sale)
https://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2016/06/f32/es213_kepler_2016_o_web.pdf |
The electric vehicle industry has always made rash claims for this kind of thing, they just don't deliver. People accept the drawbacks while these are novelties, toys, but that doesn't mean they'll be widely acceptable as sole transport. Ever. (IMO.) |
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| Tracer1234 |
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Tracer1234
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| Posted: 21:33 - 28 Jul 2017 Post subject: |
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Tbh, as a kid, I expected to have floating cars by now, so this is all rather disappointing anyway. 
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Riding: Yamaha MT-09 Tracer Occasionally Riding: 08 Suzuki SV650, Potato: 2011 Yamaha YBR Custom.
Used to ride: 2015 Yamaha MT-09 Tracer (smidsy) 09 Triumph Street Triple (P/X'd) 08 Yamaha YBR (Sold)
CBT 04/14. A: Mod 1 & 2 13/04/15 |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 273 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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