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Cyclist charged with manslaughter

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M.C
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PostPosted: 16:40 - 17 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
If you see a cyclist coming at you up a one way street, not many car drivers would have the balls to aim straight at them, rather than swerving into a lamp post, brick wall or parked car and put themselves in danger.

I'm guessing you don't cycle in London very often Razz Even when there's an exception for cyclists they still drive straight at you, had it happen a few times.

el_oso wrote:
Don't be silly. He had time to contract the muscles in his larynx to scream at her to get out the way, but wouldn't have had time to move his finger a few centimetres to apply a front brake.

Shouting's often the wrong thing to do, it causes people to stop dead. Pedestrians are like Lemmings in Central London.
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 11:18 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that's a London thing though. I've not seen any other cities or towns in the UK where cyclists have a cycle path running against normal flow of traffic.

This behaviour is not limited to bicycles though. Had a few people appear to deliberately move into me when I'm using one of the two lanes predominantly for use by traffic going the opposite direction. They are usually the only car travelling that direction with multiple 'lanes' but feel the need to stop others making progress because I'm on 'their' side of the road.

I'm not saying that shouting was the right thing to do. I was aiming for sarcasm. The kids' defence is that he wouldn't have had time to pull the front brake if he had one, yet he claimed to shout at the woman to alert her to his presence, an action that surely would have taken much longer. According to the media after running her down he then shouted more abuse and probably tea bagged her for good measure.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 11:47 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

el_oso wrote:
I think that's a London thing though. I've not seen any other cities or towns in the UK where cyclists have a cycle path running against normal flow of traffic.

We've got one in Trowbridge and it's a good one. Razz

https://i.imgur.com/ba8vj6s.png

Google streetview linky.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

el_oso wrote:
I think that's a London thing though. I've not seen any other cities or towns in the UK where cyclists have a cycle path running against normal flow of traffic.

This behaviour is not limited to bicycles though. Had a few people appear to deliberately move into me when I'm using one of the two lanes predominantly for use by traffic going the opposite direction. They are usually the only car travelling that direction with multiple 'lanes' but feel the need to stop others making progress because I'm on 'their' side of the road.

They're normally just this:
https://www.camcycle.org.uk/newsletters/97/images/R033289L_opt.jpg
^I think that's Southampton BTW. I assume they think it's a one way street for all traffic, I've had vans drive at me shouting one way, really nice behaviour Rolling Eyes I've had the filtering thing (on the motorbike) as well BTW. I have very little sympathy for people who try to run down vulnerable road users.

Quote:
I'm not saying that shouting was the right thing to do. I was aiming for sarcasm. The kids' defence is that he wouldn't have had time to pull the front brake if he had one, yet he claimed to shout at the woman to alert her to his presence, an action that surely would have taken much longer. According to the media after running her down he then shouted more abuse and probably tea bagged her for good measure.

Standard Razz Apparently he was going 18 mph, so you'd have to factor in stopping distances (that are very good on a 'normal' bicycle). Not knowing the full circumstances it's hard to say, if there's CCTV you'd be able to tell if it was something he genuinely couldn't avoid, or if he was being a "I'm not stopping" arse.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:19 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apropos of nothing except to shill the excellent cycle facility of the month.

https://wcc.crankfoot.xyz/facility-of-the-month/bewareofthesign.jpg
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 16:56 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

holy crap, they're everywhere. Embarassed

I'm finding it difficult not to speculate. The chap does sound like an arse. But that could quite well be fake news, media lies blah, TRUMP'S the greatest, to get a good story.

I do however have the opinion that the collision would have been unavoidable, so I don't think the chap is totally to blame. However like you said, when you panic grab a front brake on pedal bike you can come to a standstill almost instantly (or go over the bars)[/url]
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Monkeypony
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If dozy dead girl had bothered to look before stepping out into traffic, she wouldn't be dead. May or may not still be dozy.

Always look before stepping out into traffic. With everyone switching to electric cars over the next few years (apparently) It's going to be open season on phone lemmings.
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 19:19 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Re: Cyclist charged with manslaughter Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
Now this I found interesting, cyclist on fixed wheel no brake kills pedestrian then charged with manslaughter and causing bodily harm by wanton or furious driving.


oh the schadenfreude Rolling Eyes

sickpup wrote:

No mention that the street he was on is a 20mph zone which is why hi is charged with the furious and wanton part.

this I am curious about ...
pedestrian precinct ?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:26 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the suggestion was that the cyclist was exceeding the speed limit, although apparently he was doing 18 mph (not sure how they're sure of this).
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Monkeypony
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PostPosted: 23:24 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
I think the suggestion was that the cyclist was exceeding the speed limit, although apparently he was doing 18 mph (not sure how they're sure of this).


A bicycle is not legally required to carry an instrument to measure speed.

A naked drunk barrister with a heroine problem could could get a cyclist off a speeding charge.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 00:11 - 19 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkeypony wrote:
M.C wrote:
I think the suggestion was that the cyclist was exceeding the speed limit, although apparently he was doing 18 mph (not sure how they're sure of this).


A bicycle is not legally required to carry an instrument to measure speed.

A naked drunk barrister with a heroine problem could could get a cyclist off a speeding charge.

I only saw the speed mentioned, which makes me thinks there's CCTV (main road so maybe?), or the bike had a computer thingy (maybe one that saved the top speed).

FWIW that's why I hate 20 limits, cars hold me up when I'm cycling Mad
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 08:22 - 19 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
This behaviour is not limited to bicycles though. Had a few people appear to deliberately move into me when I'm using one of the two lanes predominantly for use by traffic going the opposite direction. They are usually the only car travelling that direction with multiple 'lanes' but feel the need to stop others making progress because I'm on 'their' side of the road.
They're normally just this:
https://www.camcycle.org.uk/newsletters/97/images/R033289L_opt.jpg
^I think that's Southampton BTW. I assume they think it's a one way street for all traffic, I've had vans drive at me shouting one way, really nice behaviour Rolling Eyes I've had the filtering thing (on the motorbike) as well BTW. I have very little sympathy for people who try to run down vulnerable road users.


They shouldn't be just like that, that one has incorrect road markings.
The cycle side of the road should have a split white line demarcation with cycle signs on the road to indicate that there is a cycle lane contra to the direction of other traffic.

Copycat73 wrote:
oh the schadenfreude Rolling Eyes


You really shouldn't use words you don't understand Thumbs Up

Copycat73 wrote:
this I am curious about ...
pedestrian precinct ?


Oh a polite question, I shall answer it politely.

Much of Central London excluding Red Routes now has a 20mph limit.
This was started by Islington Council in the name of road safety and persued by virtually every other borough. The idea was less pedestrians and cyclists would be killed but of course the world doesn't work like that. Now in places like Old Street where this happened the cyclists are often moving faster than the cars so pedestrians walk out into cyclists paths and cause incidents.
The irony is of course that due to so many people cycling there are quite a few who do more than 20mph making a nonsense of the speed limit.

I can't provide proof of this but if you were to stand on Old Street between lets say 17.00-19.00 you could see this for yourself.

Monkeypony wrote:
A naked drunk barrister with a heroine problem could could get a cyclist off a speeding charge.


Well they should be able to what with speeding only applying to mechanically propelled vehicles. Riding furiously on the other hand is used in the place of speeding charges and they are hard to beat.


Last edited by sickpup on 07:27 - 20 Aug 2017; edited 1 time in total
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:24 - 19 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sads me that people don't know that speed limits don't apply to pedalists.

While we're clarifying, wanton or furious only applies once injury has actually been caused. It can also be used against vehicle riders/drivers who injure people off road, e.g. at race circuits, as it's one of the few offences that doesn't specify road / public place.

"Pedestrian precinct" is an interesting one. Cycles are prohibited on pavements (Highways Act 1835), but the actual term is "footpath or causeway by the side of any road made or set apart for the use or accommodation of foot passengers", which doesn't cover dedicated "pedestrian" areas that aren't roads.
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 19 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:

Copycat73 wrote:
oh the schadenfreude Rolling Eyes


You really shouldn't use words you don't understand Thumbs Up

But you understand... Thumbs Up
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M.C
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 19 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
It sads me that people don't know that speed limits don't apply to pedalists.

https://www.highwaysindustry.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Nude-Cyclist1.png
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Monkeypony
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PostPosted: 20:36 - 19 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
It sads me that people don't know that speed limits don't apply to pedalists.


Indeed. And yet somehow, some people still seem to end up with retards for legal representatives...

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-cyclist-fined-for-speeding-in-richmond-park-after-he-is-clocked-at-38mph-a3102191.html

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/speeding-cyclist-who-clocked-40mph-in-richmond-park-faces-expulsion-from-top-london-cycling-club-10099781.html
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 07:32 - 20 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
While we're clarifying, wanton or furious only applies once injury has actually been caused. It can also be used against vehicle riders/drivers who injure people off road, e.g. at race circuits, as it's one of the few offences that doesn't specify road / public place.


There is also Cycling Furiously under the 1847 Town Police Clauses Act which is used for speeding cyclists but people miss this one. Wink

Monkeypony wrote:


You are of course aware that speed limits in Royal Parks DO apply to cyclists and so this whole post of yours is redundant?
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Monkeypony
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PostPosted: 08:01 - 20 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:


You are of course aware that speed limits in Royal Parks DO apply to cyclists and so this whole post of yours is redundant?


There is an attempt to include them with a by law, but as bicycles are not required to have any means of calibrated speedo, it's pretty much unenforcable. All cyclists caught for it are advised to plead not guilty, and that's pretty much the last they hear of it. It's only the muppets that plead guilty that cop for the fine. Because they're fucking idiots.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:47 - 20 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkeypony wrote:
There is an attempt to include them with a by law

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1987/363/schedule/appendix/1/made#text%3Dspeed

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/1639/schedule/2/part/II/made#text%3Dspeed

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/1308/regulation/2/made#text%3Dspeed

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/1194/regulation/2/made#text%3Dspeed

Seems fairly clear, although the underlying Act eludes me (as in, I don't care enough abut That London to keep looking).


Monkeypony wrote:
but as bicycles are not required to have any means of calibrated speedo

Why is that an issue? Is an absolute offence, there's no defence of ignorance, although you could try it as mitigation in sentencing.
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 14:19 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

in Bedford lots of pavements now just have a pedestrian/cycle path round blue sign up, with no obvious other changes, many one way streets allow cycles to go both ways

main problem is that most of the cycle paths are a waste of time, as there is usually a delivery van or five parked on them
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:19 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

thx1138 wrote:
in Bedford lots of pavements now just have a pedestrian/cycle path round blue sign up, with no obvious other changes, many one way streets allow cycles to go both ways

main problem is that most of the cycle paths are a waste of time, as there is usually a delivery van or five parked on them

Typically that's how it goes with cycling infrastructure. Councils are pleased with how they're encouraging cycling, saving the environment, and improving peoples health. Cyclists tend to be of the opinion if you're going to do it, do it properly. I'm of the opinion if you can't share the road space with other traffic then you shouldn't be there, and that the money would be better spent on trying to educate drivers, in the (probably) forlorn hope we can all get along a bit better.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 17:35 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
I'm of the opinion if you can't share the road space with other traffic then you shouldn't be there, and that the money would be better spent on trying to educate drivers, in the (probably) forlorn hope we can all get along a bit better.


Why not educate the cyclists as well?
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 17:50 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously had this women been wearing a helmet she wouldn't have died. Mandatory helmets for peds.
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