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natefz6
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are often on the employer side of this waiting for 2-3 months for a new starter to finish his/her notice. It's not a problem as such but what does do is gives you as the employee time to continue courting the market with a firm offer up your sleeve.

We have had it on more than one occasion where an accepted confirmed candidate has come back 2.5 months after accepting the job saying "err thanks but I just got offered this other job and they beat your offer by £5k and some holiday". Gets right on my goat Very Happy

I am on 3 months notice an know there would be no way of me being able to work one day less. Other people however have been walked out of the door on receipt of the letter of resignation. It depends on your role/risk/value to the business. So if you want to cut it short you will need to give them reason why they would not want you to sit at their desk for 2 months Smile
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 18 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

In places I've worked, I've always found it a bit odd that the more senior and indispensible you become, the longer notice you have to give, yet at the same time the more likely it is that they'll stick you on gardening leave Confused

arry wrote:
Nice bloke, but viscous bastard.

Sounds like you might up in a sticky mess if you tangled with him. Smile
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 08:56 - 19 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Current employer after 'probation' it turns for 1 month from the employer and 3 months from the employee.

Can't say I am impressed with that.

Whether they could enforce it is another question, but it does provide potential hassle.

All the best

Katy
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:05 - 19 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Current employer after 'probation' it turns for 1 month from the employer and 3 months from the employee.

Then I'd feel free to mention to them on Friday, "Oh, by the way, I won't be in or Monday, or ever again."
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M.C
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PostPosted: 10:24 - 19 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freddyfruitbat wrote:
In places I've worked, I've always found it a bit odd that the more senior and indispensible you become, the longer notice you have to give, yet at the same time the more likely it is that they'll stick you on gardening leave Confused

What grinds my gears (wrong topic I know) is when they sack plebs on the spot, yet management get nicely asked to leave, even with a thank you speech infront of everyone... then it turns out they've been up to fraudulent shit.
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 19 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
But when you finish your sick leave period, you would have to still work your notice would you not?

It might work, if you were a pain in the arse and seen living it up in pubs/clubs every week by your employers staff. But even then getting them to do instant dismissal for just having time off sick that they accuse you of false sick leave, is unlikely and probably would have to go to disciplinary or not even that if they didn't have sufficient proof or evidence.

You could try saying your too ill to ever come back to work, but again instant dismissal would be extremely unlikely for that approach too.

You'd have to commit gross misconduct, or breech competition or trading regulations, or be involved in bribery or taking benefits to influence a contract etc most likely to get to an instant dismissal from the company. Any of that or just get caught looking at under age porn should do it.

Trouble is with all the above its likely to harm your future prospects with a new employer, or have you struck off or banned from working in certain industries etc.


was sort of said in jest but at the same time its sort of what I did

was off sick with stress and depression found new job and handed in notice
they took it as I was not coming back ever so started new job anyway
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JonB
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PostPosted: 15:15 - 19 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my industry and for my role the general rule is 3 months, somehow managed to blag myself a one month notice period this time round.

Employers don't care, they will wait 3 months for the right candidate.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:03 - 19 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

andyscooter wrote:
stevo as b4 wrote:
But when you finish your sick leave period, you would have to still work your notice would you not?

It might work, if you were a pain in the arse and seen living it up in pubs/clubs every week by your employers staff. But even then getting them to do instant dismissal for just having time off sick that they accuse you of false sick leave, is unlikely and probably would have to go to disciplinary or not even that if they didn't have sufficient proof or evidence.

You could try saying your too ill to ever come back to work, but again instant dismissal would be extremely unlikely for that approach too.

You'd have to commit gross misconduct, or breech competition or trading regulations, or be involved in bribery or taking benefits to influence a contract etc most likely to get to an instant dismissal from the company. Any of that or just get caught looking at under age porn should do it.

Trouble is with all the above its likely to harm your future prospects with a new employer, or have you struck off or banned from working in certain industries etc.


was sort of said in jest but at the same time its sort of what I did

was off sick with stress and depression found new job and handed in notice
they took it as I was not coming back ever so started new job anyway

It does happen a lot though. A guy I worked with was off with 'depression', then was seen down the pub (by a manager) in decorator overalls. He probably would have got away with it had it not been round the corner from our office Rolling Eyes
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 20:58 - 19 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah but sometimes it's seen or assumed very incorrectly by employers that if someone is off work sick that they should at all times be confined to inside the walls of their home.

Its a ridiculous view, but an age old stereotype of the sick person should be wrapped up in bed etc.

I've had time off work sick with for example:

1, Bad back. The doctor told me to not lift or carry anything heavy, avoid stress or being confined in one position for long periods, and to avoid sitting for long periods. He also said that walking 3-4miles a day would be beneficial to my recovery.

2, Stress. The advice this time was to keep active, do physical exercise and eat healthy but at regular intervals. I was also told to avoid being alone too much or to be around things that are reminders of the causes of stress at work, such as VDU's or electronic devices or mobile phones etc.

Just two examples of where staying in the house all day while off sick was not very helpful or beneficial to recovery.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:11 - 19 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure but working a job whilst you're off 'sick' from another is taking the piss Smile They abuse the system and make it harder for genuinely sick people.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 21:19 - 19 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

But what if you hadn't had a day off sick for 5years, and a mate says can you come and help me for a weeks work and make say £1500 cash in hand.

Not saying it's right or fair, but theres still plenty of people that would think fuck this I'm calling in sick for an easy dead cert £1500 and no one will ever know. Or they arnt sure if they'll get rumbled, but think for £1500 I'm bloody gonna take the chance.

I even think sometimes that employers expect their staff to be deceitful and have some false time off sick, or to lie or be less than 100% trustworthy. Its almost the norm for people to take liberties and try to lie/cheat/steal as it's a common trait in human nature.
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6r4h4m
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PostPosted: 12:53 - 20 Aug 2017    Post subject: Re: Handing in notice Reply with quote

Feasty wrote:
b) If I decided I only wanted to give 1 months notice (or even less), would I likely just be docked my last month or 2's wages or could they take me to court and sue for a lot more?

I would ask my HR dept to clarify and see what they say


b) Depends how much you need a reference, now or in the future. There's an urban myth that employers can't give a "bad" reference. The fact is, there is nothing stopping them writing a factual reference, including "We regret to report that Mr Feasty failed to honour his contractually agreed notice period when he left the company." I've seen a much nastier - presumably factual - reference left in the print tray by a vindictive HR team.

On asking your HR department: generally, avoid. Firstly, they work for The Man, not you. Secondly, a huge proportion of people working in HR don't know their arse from their elbow. I wouldn't ask them the time if they were wearing a simple-to-read watch.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 13:58 - 20 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Stress. The advice this time was to keep active, do physical exercise and eat healthy but at regular intervals. I was also told to avoid being alone too much or to be around things that are reminders of the causes of stress at work, such as VDU's or electronic devices or mobile phones etc.

Just two examples of where staying in the house all day while off sick was not very helpful or beneficial to recovery.

Had similar experience myself. I spent a large chunk of my sick leave up ladders repainting the pebbledash on the outside of my house. Bloody hard work and very therapeutic actually - being active, outdoors, and most importantly, removed from the environment which had scrambled my brains in the first place. I was in full view of the road and well aware that it was quite possible for my employer to have found out, but had that happened I would have had no problem defending my actions. If I'd been paid to paint the neighbour's house instead - different kettle of fish entirely...!
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 20 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
But what if you hadn't had a day off sick for 5years, and a mate says can you come and help me for a weeks work and make say £1500 cash in hand.

Not saying it's right or fair, but theres still plenty of people that would think fuck this I'm calling in sick for an easy dead cert £1500 and no one will ever know. Or they arnt sure if they'll get rumbled, but think for £1500 I'm bloody gonna take the chance.

I even think sometimes that employers expect their staff to be deceitful and have some false time off sick, or to lie or be less than 100% trustworthy. Its almost the norm for people to take liberties and try to lie/cheat/steal as it's a common trait in human nature.

Book it off as annual leave. Your last statement's true which's why employers view genuine sickness with distrust. I know people who use it when they want a break from work or when they intend to leave (then they drag out the sick pay until they're sacked).

I took 3 months unpaid leave the first time my back went, before my back issues I went 2 years without a day off sick. As I said above it's people who abuse the system that make it more difficult for genuinely ill people. At my place they've tightened up their absence policy because of these individuals, making it really difficult if you're trying to work with health problems.
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natefz6
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PostPosted: 15:41 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
[ At my place they've tightened up their absence policy because of these individuals, making it really difficult if you're trying to work with health problems.


Yep, we had a very relaxed policy up until the last couple of years when a couple of people started who wanted to "play the game". One even asked how many days sick he gets allocated to take a year...
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 19:47 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with MC etc, but I'd not take 3months unpaid leave from work for illness. Most of the illness/injury I've had over the years at work, (other than cold/flu/ gastroenteritis etc) has either happened at or been caused by work.

I think I've once had time off maybe a week, after a mountain biking accident where I bashed myself up a bit, but everything else was at work.

I also like MC once had a good sick record, maybe 3days off in 3years or less. I've now got a terrible sick record according to the accumulated sick metrics they use.

In the last 5years, I've had my worst health ever, and been through all the usual shit like stress, depression, anxiety, cancer, and had heart rhythm and respiratory problems.

I like work though, like a challenge and like to achieve and get a good result, so in my mind every day I'm well enough to work I give it my all and always will! But I've told my employer I've had all the above and some are non resolved issues, so if I don't feel well enough to come in and work at 100% tomorrow or a Thursday in 3weeks time etc, that I won't, and also I'm not going to promise a good attendance if I havnt got the health to back it up. They really didn't like this though (slightly to my surprise, as I've laid all my honest hand on heart cards on the table).

I view my and many employers with huge distrust now and some resentment that I've never had before, but now it just sits simmering under the surface. I've been told I need an excellent sick record in the next 3years to avoid disciplinary procedures, warnings and what I view as threats.

I've collapsed once at work this year, and put my colleagues and the public in danger a couple of times too. But the nasty and unfair view of my employer on sickness, has made things personal for me and I see it as a conflict where one of us if it comes to the crunch will win or lose. They've now got a very bloody minded fighter against them now, as I don't see a common or agreed view ever happening again.

I sometimes don't get employer's when they can Base helping or gunning down a person on a stat alone. I see so many people that don't contribute much or take the piss out of the employer with time keeping, work rates or quality. But they turn up every day, and while they'll never care or be decent honest staff, they have a tick in the box for excellent attendance, which seems like a get out of jail free card.

Where as the hard working, do the extra mile types, but that have had some lengthly health troubles, that they try to work with and through are the bad bad men, who need the hammer blow of discipline and threat from above, because they don't have that tick in a box?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:47 - 21 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I had put in for it before my back went (I physically wanted a break), then it 'went' and they approved the leave knowing I'd be off for a while anyway Rolling Eyes It was more of an example of taking a break from work without 'going sick' like some people do, although obviously not everyone can afford to financially.

Also I've found the opposite, I should have been disciplined a couple of times already, but have been let off due to my (previous) record. Maybe that's a bit unfair but I see it as example of how it works both ways, and they're not a nice employer prone to any sympathy usually Smile
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natefz6
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PostPosted: 11:29 - 22 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stevo everyone is different as are all employers.

Do you fill in sick forms when you return to work? Our sick form has the question "Was this sickness or injury caused by work or your working environment?" if yours doesn't make sure you note it on the form you do fill in each time. Its part of their duty of care to employees to monitor that and improve processes and environment to reduce sickness. It's in their interest and yours and days off attributed to work related problems should not count against you.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:45 - 22 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
It was more of an example of taking a break from work without 'going sick' like some people do, although obviously not everyone can afford to financially.

mdp72 to the thread, paging mdp72 to the bitty thread.
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arry
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PostPosted: 12:13 - 22 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Your value is likely to be more about who you know than what you know, right? The relationships you've built with the various ghouls and hyenas that make up the insurance industry (yourself excepted).

That's not much of a consideration for most sector 7G drones.


Missed this before Laughing Yeah, pretty much. Well, it is these days - I knew pretty much none of my existing client base when I first walked through these doors. Nowadays, they'd follow me if I left. Nice position to be in, but I'd have to be very careful about how I played that game if I chose to do so.

The irony is, at the request of my fellow board, I've spent about 2 years de-risking my team's relationships with their customers by becoming more entrenched in them myself so if the team left, they'd have ties with me instead. I don't think the board have spotted the obvious flaw in that plan.....
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 20:34 - 22 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too scared to go off sick in one way now. I smashed my knee into the ground falling over a step whilst carrying two tool boxes about a month ago.

I told my boss in a meeting about other stuff about the accident after the weekend after it happened. I had to take pain killers and be checked out at the local hospital to see if I was gonna screw it up by walking around and carrying stuff after the injury. I spent a day in bed with it too painful to walk much on.

I told my boss I hadn't reported it as a work place accident, and absolutely wasn't going to. I said though I was fully following work procedures and regs, I just know they'd run to HR and say let's try and find a way to pin it on me, or take him down. I'd rather be dead than let them try to take me down now. They've got a really stubborn fucker now from my dealings and experiences, and I'd rather drop at work than give them the slightest chance to say we're gonna have him for this or that.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:22 - 22 Aug 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
M.C wrote:
It was more of an example of taking a break from work without 'going sick' like some people do, although obviously not everyone can afford to financially.

mdp72 to the thread, paging mdp72 to the bitty thread.

I probably pay more to the council than you do on your mortgage Wink
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