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ThatDippyTwat
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stevo as b4
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clarkeb
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 Posted: 20:31 - 22 Aug 2017  Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 22:49 - 22 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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| clarkeb wrote: | Is that worth 1300? |
If it had a full year's MOT, and wasn't 8 years old, and had under 15,000 miles, sure.
As none of those apply, no chance.
It's been up for 17 days and not sold because it's over priced.
If you want a bargain, you need to have your budget ready in actual cash, and get in within hours, or sometimes minutes.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 07:59 - 23 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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| clarkeb wrote: | Reason for a 125 is that i currently only have my CBT, i want to get some experience before throwing money at a DAS (I'm 26). |
First up, I like 125's, and have more than a couple knocking about; the general derision they receive, to my mind is enormously unfair. The main reason for this is the perception as 'Kiddie-Bikes' for non enthusiasts without a licence. You don't get new car driver's being told, "Oh-No, DON'T get a Ford Firsta 1.1 you'll be 'bored' within a month.. buy a Ferrari".. attitude is more revealing of common biker attitudes than it is anything else, and unfortunate reveal of how motorcycles, and especially so bigger ones, now are almost entirely life-style leisure implements like golf clubs or fishing rods, rather than practical transport.
When I started riding on the road, the annual average miles of a car, was around 12-15K; there were still less cars than there were households in the UK, and most households only had one car, if any. Annual average miles for a bike, was around 6-9K, used as one persons sole transport , rather than a car serving for an entire family.
In your life-time, the average miles on a car has dropped slightly, but not much! It is still approx 12K miles a year; as the two-car household has become the 'norm'. Meanwhile, annual average motorcycle miles have fallen to approx 3K a year, as they have become far more often 2nd vehicles for leisure use only.
It's interesting to note, though, that many bikes clock less than 1000miles a year between MOT's, many less than 500, and most of these low mile motorcycles are big-bikes, taken out only for an occasional thrash on a sunny Sunday... and it is the little 125's, clocking up the regular 6Kish a year commuter miles as every day transport, dragging up the average? You tell ME which sounds more like a 'toy'?
NOW... first up... just because a 125 is little, is in no way some sort of safety net; dangers on a bike are dangers, they are NOT proportional to the size of hole in the engine where fire happens; you can get into just as much trouble on a little bike as a big one. A four-stroke 125, aught to be able to achieve 'almost' a genuine 70mph, if not a tad over; ie they are as fast as any other motorcycle is legally allowed to go in this country.. Bigger bikes, can get you into trouble quicker, but, ironically again, the surveys suggest that excess speed is NOT a contributory factor in most motorcycle accidents, of which around 2/3 occur in urban or semi-urban districts subject to sub 50mph speed limits...
BIGGEST danger on a bike.... is the twat in the hat! If they don't know what they are about, or they don't care, then matters little what they are riding, and a bigger faster bike will just let them find trouble quicker.
After that, largest danger is general road conditions; and high use urban roads, with the slowest speed limits, the most vehicles, and most hazards by way of junctions and parked cars and kids on the pavement, compressed into the smallest area....
The typical hobby-biker, doowing DAS, getting a 600 and heading out onto the lanes on sunny evenings and weekends trying for knee-down, is probably the highest risk rider going, but saved fro themselves by limited miles, and picking that low risk environment..... to crash, panic braking when they spot a GATSO, quite often... but still.
The CBT commuter, on the other hand? Is saved nothing by thier little engine. They are likely heading out every day, into the highest risk roads, at the highest risk times of day, and ramping that risk dong it for probably 10x the number of miles!!! Its quite astounding any of'em live to tell the tale, really..... but still again.....
Your election to follow the 125 route... I say it time and time again, time on a tiddler is rarely wasted.... B-U-T since they changed the licence system. that essentially discourages training and testing, merits of it are rather deminished.
As Roger is quick to point out, bigger bikes are often easier to ride. This is not necesserily a good thing.
Motorcycles are a-stable vehicles, they like to fall over. What keeps the upright is moving, their own momentum. This is mass times velocity squared. More mass they have, more stable they are. More velocity they have, more stable they are.
Now, take a typical 125, that weighs maybe 125Kg and had perhaps 10bhp; takes a healthy fist full of throttle to get the thing to start to shift, and almost as soon as it has, and before hesitant rider's got feet on the pegs, it needs an up-shift as it's run out of revs... typical scenario is that rider gets the thing shifting, wobbles and flaps, unbalancing the lighter bike not getting feet planted on the pegs, 'hovering' wondering whether the bike will stall or they'll have to stick a boot down to stop it falling.... and flapping some more, trying to find the gear lever, to make that up change, and the bike slowing down, as they pull in the clutch to make it, making the stick the legs out to stop it falling as it looses momentum before they have made the gear change....
OK, stick Newb on a bigger bike; a 500cc commuter twin, that probably weighs around 180Kg, and has around 45bhp; with 50% more mass, it has half as much extra momentum its far less inclined to wobble from the off; and with three or four times the power, it will accelerate up to gear change speed, at probably around 30mph rather than 15, so it has five or six times the momentum, when you need to change, a-n-d you have accelerated to twice the speed and had far more chance to get any wobbles there may be in check, before you need unsettle the thing with more flapping.....
It is FAR easier to get a complete newb up and doing on a bigger bike, more quickly than a tiddler for this sot of reason, add to that the fact that they are likely a lot less condescending of the 'big-bike' and inclined to be a bit more ginger with the throttle, they will tend to get a feel and get doing a lot more readily...
BUT.. what they DON'T get from that sort of make-it-easy learning is the discipline and technique.....
IF you learn to launch a lightweight, that will NOT make it easy for you that will NOT flatter or tolerate any clumsiness or numptiness, and you learn the diligence and discipline to do 'SMOOTH' and get the thing moving, be confident; get feet up on the pegs straight away, kill wobbles before they begi; make gear changes slow, deliberate and positve, and NOT fanny about flappng and hovering... you get GOOD, and you get good quick, because the bike wont make it 'easy', or cover your mistakes.
And its not just launching its all 'control' from dong the cones to dealng with junctions to setting the bike up for a corner. On a tiddler with a barely 60mph top seed on a National Speed Limit road, to 'make good progress' you CANNOT waste momentum 'suidding' as so many DAS trained riders do, accelerating hard out of one corner, braking hard for the next, chucking bike over, and using the excess of performance to compensate for lack of basic fundamental technique... its a harsh, violent and extreme way to ride, which gives the extreme go fast sensation that thrill seeking riders seek, but its OT actually all that 'fast' nor is it particularly 'safe'.... trained on a tddler, to make progress you have to be SMOOTH, corners you roll off, not brake, you have to pick your line, and be precise and positive so as to maintain speed, because you cannot afford to wast any, as you cant put it back on in an instant with a quick twist... you HAVE to make the most of the little you got..... again, diligence and discipline....
THIS is why I still have a couple of tiddlers knocking about.. any idiot can do 100+mph on a big bike, if they are daft enough to twist the throttle far enough... getting a tiddler to average just 50 down a country lane, is an achievement; its far more demanding, far more engaging, and to me, far more 'fun', and when I do it, I know that the feat is all down to me, not how big the hole fire happens in the engine happens to be.....
THIS is the lesson tiddlers can teach IF you car to learn it.....
B-U-T... fannying about on one, essentially untrained; after just the first lesson of CBT, all you will likely learn is how 'slow' 125's are, how you 'have' to thrash them every where to get anywhere, and how 'pathetic' the things are... you will learn to blame the bike, NOT up your skill..... whilst you kid yourself you are a 'safe' rider, and you cant do much harm 'cos only likkuw bike!
NOW, doing a course and getting on a big-bike makes some sense. You probably wont get the diligence and discipline that a tiddler can teach... BUT, you will get some full and proper training, and you WILL be up to and past test standard, at the very least before you head out solo to face the dangers.. also probably a grand lighter in the wallet.... and bereft of the guiding words of an instructor in your ear over the radio, you will, on a 500+ bike straight off the stops PROBABLY shit yourself pretty quick.... how long that awe lasts ad whether it lasts long enough for you to learn a bit of skill and respect? Well, most do..... and the bgger bike flattering the little skill they have and letting them get away with squidding, and kidding themselves that they are a riding ace, cos of how fast the speedo says between bends and how much their arms ache from reacting the gross braking forces and hanging on between them... yeah.. well, they may or may not learn 'enough'.. most survive though, so limited miles on the 'toy' and limited years playing, probably saves plenty...
Which is where, the question comes down to separating 'Training' from 'Tests', and recognisng that just because you CAN ride a 125 without passing tests, doesn't mean its the smartest thing to do..or that just because you have passed test and 'may' ride a bigger bike, that means you have all the necessary the skill to do so safely.... remember still the prat in the hat that's the biggest danger!
A Full Ride-What-You-Like licence is just that, and you can ride what you like! Doesn't have to be a supa-ninja-busa! No one will take it off you if you dont buy something 500+cc within a year! You ca STILL ride a 125 on one, as I do, IF that is what you like!
So back to the plan.. why a 125, and IF it s merely impatience and convenience.. they are cheap and easy, you CAN ride one on a CBT wthout manning up the cash or the know how to do a course, then you are riding for a fall before you start.
Rushing be fast way to hurt on a motorbike, they do NOT suffer fools easily, and they do NOT tolerate laziness. And with the soft bit on the outside, mistakes on motorcycles HURT.... that hat wont stop you crashing....
Say this often enough too... when it comes to motorbikes, the actual bike is the very LAST thing on the list of shit you need....
Start at the top; ponder the plan from scratch; a DAS course may be expensive, but its a way to a licence, and you get some useful life saving know-how along the way.... and a DAS course is still cheaper than a ridng sut, and unlike a riding suit it gets used every time you get o the bike, gets better with use, and provides a life time of value.. a crash hat s good for ONE crash... when its too late, you gona get hurt.... and YOU say you plan to Do-DAS ANYWAY....
Plan to spend 6-months on a 125, with no further training 'to get the feel of it'.. is a pan to at best, procrastinate, NOT learn to ride, and basically put off, whilst livng in the highest risk danger zone.... essentially untrained, competence significantly questionable, learning stuff, not from good practice but likely bad experience, ingraining bad habits, and how much you may get away with....
IF you want to use a 125 as a part of the plan, and a toe in the water, fair play, its a good way to go. Advantages of a 125 are that they can be cheap way to work wheels... but as that entails the most dangerous roads likely, and IF you are up t par for that, you should be up to par for tests, you leave that until you have passed tests or are darn close.
Meanwhile; go buy bike, and for no more than a month, use that every evening for a wobble round the houses bit of practice, practicing what you were taught on CBT.... THEN you can start booking lessons, rather than multi-day courses, and you can come home after that lesson,in which there will be a lot less to remember forget, and practice that learning essentially for free for a week on the 125, when you aren't having to pay some-one to watch you wobble, merely to fullfil legal requirements to be practicing on the bigger DAS bike..... you can get far more practice, you can get far more experience to inform what you ask in lessons, and what you ask to be taught on lessons, to get the MOST out of your lessons by way of actual learning, NOT merely a paid baby-sitter on the end of a radio letting you play with a big-bike on L-Plates... When test ready, you can use school bike to take tests under DAS for the RWYL licence, and, you aught to have extracted as much as you can from both the 125 AND the training.....
But the here and now is, you are worryng about the wrong stuff.. you do NOT need a good deal on a 125.... if any-one can ever find one... what you NEED is to learn to ride and ride to survice... and current impatient attitude is taking you dow a route to make it hard, not easy, where the fall will likely come costly and painful.
Rethink from the top, and stick the bike at the bottom of the list; stck learning ad know-how, lessons, and licences slightly higher... and THEN where into that sceme a bike, whether a 125 or anything else may best 'fit'....
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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clarkeb
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 10:31 - 23 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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They are both YBR's. They are both around a grand. They are both tag end life bikes that likely need a fair bit of remedial maintenance; both are in the midlands. First, silver one looks to have had a better wash before ad-picture; second one has MX bar guards, and rust on the 'zorst... You would get far more bike, in likely far better condition for that money in the big-bike world, but what the heck, these are 125's that's how much they fetch, and there are probably fifty other folk who want'em and are prepared to pay for them, and probably DGAS what it says in the ad, or how shiny they look in the ad-photo.... so both adverts that are over ten days old, and if EITHER are still for sale, then they probaby weren't worth buying anyway!!!!
GET OFF the frigging interweb and go pound shoe leather, to look at REAL bikes, in the REAL world, and weigh them up on what you can actually see in the metal.
IF... a 125 is actually the best way to be going.... if you heed advice you wont have it long enough to make much odds and you'll be loosing a few quid from buying now while the sun's still shining compared to flogging on when the leaves are wet and slimy on the ground, but what the heck, you will probably also manage to dodge any major mechanical maladies lurking in them, pushing them on to the next buyer....
MEANWHILE.. you are procrastinating even over your plan to essentially procrastinate!
STOP THINKING!, STOP 'researching' and start DOING something!
As said, if you want guarantees go to a dealers. Else, accept the risks! If you cant accept and manage risk, biking is-NOT-for-you! That is what it ALL comes down to!!!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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clarkeb
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 11:25 - 23 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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| clarkeb wrote: | https://www.gumtree.com/p/yamaha-motorbikes/yamaha-ybr125.-low-mileage./1259451796
"Will MOT for new buyer" |
Lies, damn lies, and promises of MOTing a bike for you. 
Mike is right - deranged, abusive, but right. At a budget of around £1K, your problem is finding a decent bike that hasn't been sold by the time you get to it.
You're not going to secure the perfect bike at a bargain price by carefully comparing multiple examples of two-week old adverts containing minimal information. I'd be amazed if either bike was really still for sale - Gumtree is rife with abandoned ads.
If we're talking in principle though, the first one is better if it has 12 months MOT, or if you're absolutely sure that it will pass one without spending anything on it.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 11:34 - 23 Aug 2017 Post subject: |
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| clarkeb wrote: | You suggested the YBR over the CBR, so i've been looking. |
At a screen, not a motorbike..... then asking us for opinions on what you have seen on screen.... and I have already told you as much as can be said for any advert you find... they will ALL be over priced for what you are looking at; they will all make more of what they are than they can probably deliver; they will all be in dire need of spanner attention; that is the nature of Learner-Bikes... you need to go look at them n the metal, not on line, and in the metal, not the shiny bits..
Of the two.. the second, one that's got a rusty exhaust ad higher miles, looks well used. Suggestion that the engine's been replaced supports that. It's over priced compared to the frst, but probably has more haggle space, and fewer other punters in the queue, it would be the one I looked at first, its either a complete cobble job, I would walk away from, or its a less attractive but likely better looked after 'scruff' I could get the price down on and scrub up once home. First, more carefully prepared, and with lower miles, will probably have the seller hanging out for asking price, for bike that under the shiney has as much and likely less obviouse to sort out after.
B-U-T if either are worth buying, they are likely already sold....
You live a rural area? Judging by those two adds, as you don't say in profile, what, west west mids, Shropshire Worcestershire boarders? I grew up in SonA and know the rurification issue well, B-U-T, that doesn't change things much; I now live in the east of the county, within 20min of Brum town center, five minutes off the M6, M42 and M69, slap in the middle of the country there's little that's not within 90 miles 2hrs of me here, but I STILL have to be prepared to travel to find anything bike wise! And that means having the ability to jump in a mota to get to, see and deal, as stuff comes up, to be at the front of the queue, not procrastinating, asking every-one and any-one what they think of the add, before even I call to make appointment to see..
If 'wasted' journeys are an issue you cant afford, GO TO A DEALERS! Pay the pemium for that convenience. Otherwise, you need to factor in the cost of gong to visit, and some wasted journeys into the 'savings' you hope to find buying 2nd hand.
BUT, based on the small reveal of an ad, and an ad-pic, we can tell you very little.. you HAVE to go see, make your own judgement and take your own risks, same as when you are in the saddle!
What the heck will you be like when you are at a junction, in rush hour with five cars honking their horn because you haven't crossed the give way for two minutes, looking up and down the road, wondering whether a gap is big enough!?
Old army adage; the worst decision is indecision.... if you are this risk averse, and so over whelmed just looking at bikes for sale, heaven help you on the road, on your own, if you ever buy one!
You want to be a Rider, get in the ruddy saddle, grasp the controls and take charge! Make your own decisions and be prepared to accept the consequences of bad ones! And EXPECT to make a few bad ones! This is just the start.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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clarkeb
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Rogerborg
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Posted: 13:08 - 23 Aug 2017  Post subject: |
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You're right to ask. Try to filter out the nuggets of gold from Mike's landslide of ranty-dross: he is right that until you've seen a few lemon bikes in the metal, you won't know what constitutes a peach.
Don't sweat it too much though - at the end of the day, you're not marrying the bike, you're just giving it a quick spanking then discarding it.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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el_oso
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