Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


SuperSoco

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Biking News & Rumours Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Dr. DaveJPS
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 May 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:04 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: SuperSoco Reply with quote

Anyone else notice this contenter to the 50cc electric market?

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-4823562/Removable-battery-Super-Soco-electric-motorbike-reviewed.html

i'm almost tempted to try and test ride one... Embarassed
____________________
"intelligent inattention is preferable to unintelligent tinkering"
www.davejps.com
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:25 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting and doesn't look entirely stupid. I'd imagine it could actually be a bit of a hoot to ride. Needs more fairing.

I presume you have to insure it though?

I'd imagine you could still build one hell of a home-brew electric bicycle, probably faster and with a greater range for the money.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Dr. DaveJPS
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 May 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:43 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Interesting and doesn't look entirely stupid. I'd imagine it could actually be a bit of a hoot to ride. Needs more fairing.

I presume you have to insure it though?


I'm imagine you'd have to insure it. If it had a bit more range (~50 miles in sport mode) and a bit more poke (up to at least 60mph) I'd probably be on my way to the dealer now to cadge a test ride as it'd be an ideal commuter for me
____________________
"intelligent inattention is preferable to unintelligent tinkering"
www.davejps.com
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Tracer1234
World Chat Champion



Joined: 13 Sep 2014
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:14 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly looks like we are getting closer to a viable product that the average person will want and can afford to buy. Thumbs Up
____________________
Riding: Yamaha MT-09 Tracer Occasionally Riding: 08 Suzuki SV650, Potato: 2011 Yamaha YBR Custom.
Used to ride: 2015 Yamaha MT-09 Tracer (smidsy) 09 Triumph Street Triple (P/X'd) 08 Yamaha YBR (Sold)
CBT 04/14. A: Mod 1 & 2 13/04/15
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Kawasaki Jimbo
World Chat Champion



Joined: 09 Oct 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:14 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm struggling to see the positives in that article.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:09 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Stuff going in the right direction" - but a lot of money compared to more DIY options.

I bought a road registered 1000w folding scooter for £450 with a 13s (48v) 20ah lithium battery. I bought it mostly for the battery for use elsewhere, but am tempted to get it on the road at some point.

This is a 1000w road legal push bike based one that was for sale up at £1200:
https://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc510/warrah1/DSC_1122.jpg

The same person had this up at £3250 with a 3000w motor setup for 60mph - weight 50kg, though ideally I'd have a mid-drive for fun; but the direct drive hub makes a lot of sense for simplicity and daily use.


Last edited by G on 22:51 - 07 Sep 2017; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

ThatDippyTwat
World Chat Champion



Joined: 07 Aug 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:17 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

For anyone used to a normal bike, it's too slow and hasn't got enough range.

For your average city commuter used to being stuck in traffic? It's probably great.

I wouldn't mind a leccy bike, but it'll need to perform like a 125, not a 50.
____________________
'98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine)
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:48 - 07 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It still doesn't answer the major fault of electric vehicles - range.

You will be buying it for 1 use. Your commute to work and back. That's 2.5 grand for a 15 mile maximum commute and you will be watching the electrickery consumption like a hawk for the last few miles.

Go for a ride on a week end? Best have a man with a van ready to fetch you when you inevitably run out of juice after a road works detour adds a couple of miles to your meticulously planned route.

And 8 hours to charge?
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

evilzed
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 05 Oct 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:38 - 08 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotta love electric motor torque values, a moped with litre bike torque

Electric motor: Bosch 1200-watt
Max speed: 28mph
Max power: 2.61bhp
Max torque: 120Nm
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:17 - 08 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

evilzed wrote:
Gotta love electric motor torque values, a moped with litre bike torque

Electric motor: Bosch 1200-watt
Max speed: 28mph
Max power: 2.61bhp
Max torque: 120Nm

Which is why torque values are completely irrelevant along, of course.

Easily have over 200nm on a push bike - but at a really low rpm.
Gear that to a useful motorbike RPM and you'll massively reduce the torque.

So, a useful measure could be one that combines torque and rpm... like power Smile.

Oh and... my battery drill manages 120nm - but that's going to be in the lowest gear which is 450rpm. So, basically a Harley, but less annoying noise Razz.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Tracer1234
World Chat Champion



Joined: 13 Sep 2014
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:07 - 08 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems Zero Motorcycles have a sale on.
____________________
Riding: Yamaha MT-09 Tracer Occasionally Riding: 08 Suzuki SV650, Potato: 2011 Yamaha YBR Custom.
Used to ride: 2015 Yamaha MT-09 Tracer (smidsy) 09 Triumph Street Triple (P/X'd) 08 Yamaha YBR (Sold)
CBT 04/14. A: Mod 1 & 2 13/04/15
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

ThatDippyTwat
World Chat Champion



Joined: 07 Aug 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:01 - 08 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tracer1234 wrote:
Seems Zero Motorcycles have a sale on.


With a CBT legal bike starting at £10.5K and the normal models starting at £16K.

That's just fucking mental.
____________________
'98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine)
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

linuxyeti
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:29 - 08 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tracer1234 wrote:
Seems Zero Motorcycles have a sale on.


If only the range was increased of the DSR was increased by even just 10 miles, I'd have 1 like a shot.

Yes, they seem expensive, but, in about 15000 miles, which really isn't much, I'll break even on a current bike, which is less than 1 years riding.

For example, CF650, ~£17.00 per 200 miles
Zero ~£3.00 for about the same

Zero, no, oil, no spark plug replacement, no servicing to speak of, replacement belt, after about 17,000 miles, £40.00 , £0.00 VED it really doesn't take long for it to make financial sense.

Hopefully, the 2018 model, or, some other model, will have a range, at NSL speeds of at least 150 miles, and at the price of the Zero, it becomes a no brainer really. Battery is warrantied for 5 years unlimited mileage.
____________________
Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:07 - 08 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

But it won't break even on current bike if you still have to have a current bike to do te bike things that are fun Razz

Seriously it's only good as a second bike for short hops.

If I go out at the weekend with friends on the bikes we do anything from 50 to200+ miles, sometimes shooting off somewhere on the spur of the moment and have stayed out overnight. You just can't use one for that.

You can't tour. You can't carry pillion, you can't go to London and back from Milton Keynes in one go. In fact you probably wouldn't make it into central London.

A friend has just bought a fold up electric assist pushbike and thats got a 20+ mile range and if you do run out you can still pedal. Thumbs Up That seems to be a much better use of electric technology.

Maybe technology will catch up and they will become feasible and cheap but I still can't see it happening soon.
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

linuxyeti
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:05 - 09 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
But it won't break even on current bike if you still have to have a current bike to do te bike things that are fun Razz

Seriously it's only good as a second bike for short hops.

If I go out at the weekend with friends on the bikes we do anything from 50 to200+ miles, sometimes shooting off somewhere on the spur of the moment and have stayed out overnight. You just can't use one for that.

You can't tour. You can't carry pillion, you can't go to London and back from Milton Keynes in one go. In fact you probably wouldn't make it into central London.

A friend has just bought a fold up electric assist pushbike and thats got a 20+ mile range and if you do run out you can still pedal. Thumbs Up That seems to be a much better use of electric technology.

Maybe technology will catch up and they will become feasible and cheap but I still can't see it happening soon.


Current Range of the Zero DSR is 120 miles, so that would cover a fair chunk of your scenarios, when long distance touring, there are an increasing amount of charging points, stop, plug in the fast charger, have a bog break & a coffee, and by the time you've done that, there's a fair chunk of the top up done. The only reason it isn't feasible for me yet, is that I have nowhere to charge it when I get to the office, and, as a result my commute is just that little bit too far, if or hopefully when, they put electric charging points in at work, and/or, when the battery range increases, I'll get one straight away.

Oh, and you can take a pillion on the Zero SR, granted it doesn't look the most comfortable of seats for the pillion, but, no different to that of say a GSX750.

Oh, and on the subject of current bike, I would easily break even, as I'd be replacing my main commuter bike with this, I already have other bikes for when the mood takes me.

Oh, and according to Google Maps ..

Milton Keynes to Central London, ~55 miles, and by next year, there will be around 3000 ev charging points in London, so, a return run from Milton Keynes to London, is very easily doable, unless of course, you don't actually plan on stopping once you get to London??

To be fair, it is cheap, ok, a little more expense upfront, but, if you ride as much as I do, then, as I say, pretty much pays for itself in the first year, just based on the operating costs of my current main commuter, which to be fair, isn't too bad on fuel anyhow.
____________________
Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Kawasaki Jimbo
World Chat Champion



Joined: 09 Oct 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:48 - 09 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's really difficult to know what the true range might be. The website says the Zero DSR gives 230+km (143 miles) and you can add an additional battery (Power Tank) which gives a total claimed maximum range of 184 miles. The Power Tank requires a different charger. The 5-year warranty on batteries allows a drop in capacity of 20% before you can claim. It's likely you'll be forking out for a new battery at some point but I can't find a price for those.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

bamt
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:03 - 09 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I keep looking at these, but the figures just don't add up for me yet.

I'm on around a 90 mile round trip commute, costs a bit less than £9/day. At the moment there isn't anywhere to charge at work (although one of the head office directors who parks in the secure yard where the bike parking is has just had a charge point put in for his wankpanzer hybrid, so as there is now cable and trunking in place it may not be impossible to get sorted).

Anyway, that's mainly fast roads and motorways, so would really need the extended battery in to be comfortable range-wise unless charging does become available at work.

In big handfuls, assuming the above figure of about £3/200 miles for the zero is right, and I'll pay roughly £19 on mine for that. That's a saving of £16 every 200 miles, £160 every 2000, £1600 every 20,000. That's a magic mileage for me, as it's about what my commuting is per year. The rest of my mileage really needs the bigger bike and guaranteed no-faff range of petrol.

No oil changes - I pay about £30 for motul oil and a filter, no more than every 8,000 miles (service book interval), usually less. Assume I'm a good boy and do every 4K, then that's £150 in 20K miles, bringing the saving to £1750. Throw in an air filter, £25, say another £200 on rubber savings (I get through 2-3 sets of tyres a year, I assume they'll be a bit cheaper on this). I'm now up to saving £2k per year compared to running a Pan 1300. Add a couple of hundred more for sundries, VED etc. I'd be surprised if insurance was much different to the £175 I pay now, but it could go either way.

My current bike cost £4.5k with 25k miles on it. I'm assuming I'll get 4 years out of it (125k miles is not unreasonable on a Pan), so costs £1k/year depreciation to being scrap value.

As a relatively high mileage rider I just don't see that I can make up the £16K cost of a suitably specced zero compared to running an older bike. Perhaps the economics would be wildly different if I was buying a new bike every three years and doing main dealer servicing - but then with those costs economically I'd be better buying a cheap little shopping car (Kia Picanto, Hyundia i10, whatever) and throwing it away after three years.

The only thing that the zero really has in its favour for me is convenience - assuming the range is good enough for a comfortable round trip or that I can charge at work, then not having to call into the petrol station every couple of days would be a nice bonus.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Dr. DaveJPS
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 May 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:07 - 27 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/first-rides-tests/super-soco-review/

MCN have now reviewed it as well.

TL;DR perfect for London as none of the scrotes will want it.
____________________
"intelligent inattention is preferable to unintelligent tinkering"
www.davejps.com
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Tracer1234
World Chat Champion



Joined: 13 Sep 2014
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:38 - 27 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. DaveJPS wrote:
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/first-rides-tests/super-soco-review/

MCN have now reviewed it as well.

TL;DR perfect for London as none of the scrotes will want it.


Does the alarm and any theft motor still work when the battery is not in and on charge I wonder?
____________________
Riding: Yamaha MT-09 Tracer Occasionally Riding: 08 Suzuki SV650, Potato: 2011 Yamaha YBR Custom.
Used to ride: 2015 Yamaha MT-09 Tracer (smidsy) 09 Triumph Street Triple (P/X'd) 08 Yamaha YBR (Sold)
CBT 04/14. A: Mod 1 & 2 13/04/15
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

AshWebster
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 05 Jan 2017
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:47 - 27 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
every 100 miles will cost you less than £1


That's pretty insane...

If i lived in the city i'd seriously consider this - it would pay for itself in a year or two!
____________________
Honda cg125 J reg peice of shit ---> CB650F ---> 2016 CBR600RR
Ford KA ---> 93' MR2 ---> 94'MR2 ---> 98' Subaru WRX STI Ver 3 (track car)
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:50 - 27 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the cost of electricity alone I believe?
The cost of depreciation of batteries can sometimes be 10x the price of the electricity!
Probably not that much in this case, but worth considering.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

kawashima
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 May 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:22 - 27 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may be the manufacturer.
https://www.vmoto.com/contact/
https://www.vmoto.com/products/detail.aspx?ProID=30
Looks much better than Yamaha EC-02/03.
I tried to find option battery price but it wasn't listed.
____________________
2020 Touring Serow 250
,past 2012 YB125SP, 2008 TDM900 2005 W650, [url=d], 2002 LS125R, 2002 CB400SF, NS50F, C50 / Trip to UK(2009), Hokkaido touring(2013)
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:05 - 27 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
That's the cost of electricity alone I believe?
The cost of depreciation of batteries can sometimes be 10x the price of the electricity!

I'm wondering what the long term private market will be like for used electric vehicles in the future, once the novelty wears off. Note that I'm pondering the future for vehicles bought now, not the now for vehicles bought in the before.

You'll rarely be able to test the endurance and will always be buying obsolete technology. If you end up with a dudder, the cost to replace the battery will likely exceed what you just paid for it, if you can even still get one for your JokeBrand JoyWhizz.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:23 - 27 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

I'm wondering what the long term private market will be like for used electric vehicles in the future, once the novelty wears off. Note that I'm pondering the future for vehicles bought now, not the now for vehicles bought in the before.

You'll rarely be able to test the endurance and will always be buying obsolete technology. If you end up with a dudder, the cost to replace the battery will likely exceed what you just paid for it, if you can even still get one for your JokeBrand JoyWhizz.


If, and I think it's a really big if, the government ban the sales of IC cars then I can see old ones holding their value or even increasing very substantially.

Anyway, what happens with battery rental/leasing when a vehicle is sold on? Is it sold without the battery and you have to take out a new agreement?

Has anyone even sold a second hand electric car with a leased battery privately?
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:27 - 27 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I occasionally go on about - there's nothing particularly special about any of them.

Brushless motors are the only real recent innovation and that's not an innovation in the motor - it's in the controller that can run a 3 phase AC motor from DC.

So I don't see that getting outdated any time soon.

Batteries we still haven't seen any of the amazing new technologies in commercial offerings that were 'just around the corner' 5 years ago.

I'd say The question will more be how happy you are to run a bodged battery pack for your niche brand where someone has repacked it with good nick cells and had to bypass the custom firmware that tried to force you to buy their cartridge.

The claims for many of the expensive commercial bikes are actually quite reasonable in terms of miles - which may even be not too far off the truth if you use them for fairly gentle town commuting (on a big sports bike... the gentle town commuter probably needs to not leave the car park Smile ).
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 6 years, 184 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Biking News & Rumours All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.15 Sec - Server Load: 0.11 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 143.55 Kb