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Mogg - first politician to ever answer a question truthfully

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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 17:33 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

He can't really help which sky-pixie his family hammered in to him from a young age.

However, I find his views (and how he conveyed them) less obnoxious that a lot of Islamic sky pixie nonsense...

However, this clearly makes him unpopular for public office.

That said, Bush made decisions based on sky-pixie whisperings so what can I say.

I still respect him for standing by his (unshared) beliefs, and actually answering a question truthfully. I hope it sets a trend/starts a good discussion on it.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:41 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:
He can't really help which sky-pixie his family hammered in to him from a young age.

Yes he can. At what age do you usually stop believing in Santa and the tooth fairy?

Sun Wukong wrote:
That said, Bush made decisions based on sky-pixie whisperings so what can I say.

In charge of a stupid nation who on the whole place more importance on sky fairies than we do. If it wasn't for immigrants religion would be virtually dead in this country Crying or Very sad
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 07:54 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Sun Wukong wrote:
That said, Bush made decisions based on sky-pixie whisperings so what can I say.

In charge of a stupid nation who on the whole place more importance on sky fairies than we do.

KNEEL BEFORE BLAIR.

There's no zealot like a convert.
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Tierbirdy
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PostPosted: 08:34 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's pretty much the epitome of out of touch with the real world, upper class toff politicians. I'd be all in favour for banning anyone who holds sky fairy beliefs seriously from being involved in any kind of politics. The sooner these ridiculous bronze age fairy tales die out the better.

Don't like gay marriage because "God" says its wrong? Well where is this "God" chap? Tell you what, when he comes and says it to me personally maybe I'll take it seriously, but until then the rights of people who actually exist are more important than upsetting your invisible sky fairies.
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UnknownStuntm...
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PostPosted: 08:51 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tierbirdy wrote:
He's pretty much the epitome of out of touch with the real world, upper class toff politicians. I'd be all in favour for banning anyone who holds sky fairy beliefs seriously from being involved in any kind of politics. The sooner these ridiculous bronze age fairy tales die out the better.

Don't like gay marriage because "God" says its wrong? Well where is this "God" chap? Tell you what, when he comes and says it to me personally maybe I'll take it seriously, but until then the rights of people who actually exist are more important than upsetting your invisible sky fairies.

I'm pretty sure the entire interview was detailing his tolerance for all skyfaeries, but retaining the right to practise the teachings of the Catholic church. I'd say that shows him to be quite 'in touch' really.

I'm beginning to think that the more people stand up and say 'you can't have an opinion because of your religion' the less I trust them. Islam seems to denounce all fake gods, and that makes me a bit bilious. Who says they're fake?

Personally, I believe religion to be futile. I respect others ability to form opinions on the matter though, no matter how wacky. I don't think my decision making ability is compromised by religion or lack thereof. I worry that some people in power would use religion to make decisions, but crucially, I believe that Mr Rees-Mogg seems like it wouldn't influence him. I cannot say the same about my feeling about Mr Khan.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:46 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tierbirdy wrote:
I'd be all in favour for banning anyone who holds sky fairy beliefs seriously from being involved in any kind of politics.

Then you'll only get taqiyya, or Blairish dissembling.

Are you OK with people who believe that women get paid 77% as much as men doing the same job?


Tierbirdy wrote:
Don't like gay marriage because "God" says its wrong?

Do you support the concept of monogamous marriage?

Why?
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 09:59 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

UnknownStuntman wrote:
Islam seems to denounce all fake gods, and that makes me a bit bilious. Who says they're fake?


You say that like other religions don't. Christianity (Deuteronomy 5:6-5:9)

for reference wrote:

5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation </span>of them that hate me,

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UnknownStuntm...
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PostPosted: 10:09 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
UnknownStuntman wrote:
Islam seems to denounce all fake gods, and that makes me a bit bilious. Who says they're fake?

You say that like other religions don't.

No, I'm really fully aware of that, but I knew someone would pick it up! Christians seem to very much tolerate, integrate and respect other religions whereas in my limited (and most likely westernised, skewed by-the-media and narrower-than-necessary minded) view, Islam does not.

Illustrates my point perfectly though, Mogg didn't denounce any other religions, even though he openly admitted to personally following the teaching of Christianity.

Surely, you can see my rationale for perceived stability.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:12 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, the Old Testament and the Torah are part of islamic scripture. They're all as bad as each other in principle. It's what they put into practice that matters.

I mean, I'd rather have Rees-Mogg say that he's in favour of flipper-rape-babby but not legislate against blending them, than (e.g.) Khan saying that he's all about wimmins' rights while forcing women to use the rear entrance.
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 10:33 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tierbirdy wrote:
He's pretty much the epitome of out of touch with the real world, upper class toff politicians. I'd be all in favour for banning anyone who holds sky fairy beliefs seriously from being involved in any kind of politics. The sooner these ridiculous bronze age fairy tales die out the better.

Don't like gay marriage because "God" says its wrong? Well where is this "God" chap? Tell you what, when he comes and says it to me personally maybe I'll take it seriously, but until then the rights of people who actually exist are more important than upsetting your invisible sky fairies.


When you think about it, religion was just a primitive way of controlling the masses, for the greater benefit of society. They usually do this through fear of death and offering an alternative.

All the Commandments were to promote society.... thou shall not steal, commit adultery etc....

When you also think about it, as non-PC as it may sound, in the cold, hard fact of life, society relies on heterosexual couples reproducing. If we all turned gay, the human race would undoubtedly soon come to it's demise.
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Last edited by mpd72 on 12:01 - 12 Sep 2017; edited 1 time in total
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 10:42 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

UnknownStuntman wrote:
whereas in my limited (and most likely westernised, skewed by-the-media and narrower-than-necessary minded) view, Islam does not.


I'm afraid that's what it appears to be. My last holiday to Turkey I visited lots of places where Christian churches were built right next to Mosques which was common, tolerance was a thing - even back in more brutal times. These days it just seems like we've grown to think that tolerance is a bad thing.

UnknownStuntman wrote:

Illustrates my point perfectly though, Mogg didn't denounce any other religions, even though he openly admitted to personally following the teaching of Christianity.


He didn't verbally denounce other religions but if he follows the "teachings of the Catholic church" then he does.

UnknownStuntman wrote:
Surely, you can see my rationale for perceived stability.


What stability is there from someone who picks and chooses the parts that suit them from religion and ignores others?
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UnknownStuntm...
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
What stability is there from someone who picks and chooses the parts that suit them from religion and ignores others?

Simple. Religion plays no part in politics. He's not thinking about being the next Archie of Canters, is he. He could be a furry on the side and I wouldn't care less. Ok, well I'd raise an eyebrow then, yes.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 12:48 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

KNEEL BEFORE BLAIR.

There's no zealot like a convert.

Fair point, although I believe Cameron was a Christian as well (Blair originally was IIRC), but they did a better job of keeping it on the down-low. You don't get "God bless the Untied Kingdom" at the end of a press conference.

ScaredyCat wrote:
UnknownStuntman wrote:
whereas in my limited (and most likely westernised, skewed by-the-media and narrower-than-necessary minded) view, Islam does not.


I'm afraid that's what it appears to be. My last holiday to Turkey I visited lots of places where Christian churches were built right next to Mosques which was common, tolerance was a thing - even back in more brutal times. These days it just seems like we've grown to think that tolerance is a bad thing.

Eh? http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/663089/Islamist-Turkey-Erdogan-seize-Christian-churches-Diyarbakir-persecution-state-property - forgive the express link but there's a lot of that kinda thing going on, in Turkey and other countries (Egypt for example) where Christians are having a hard time.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

UnknownStuntman wrote:
ScaredyCat wrote:
What stability is there from someone who picks and chooses the parts that suit them from religion and ignores others?

Simple. Religion plays no part in politics. He's not thinking about being the next Archie of Canters, is he. He could be a furry on the side and I wouldn't care less. Ok, well I'd raise an eyebrow then, yes.


If he follows Catholic teachings then that'll leach into his politics, he can't avoid it. Given that the Conservatives are about to usurp Parliament in a major way right now I'm more concerned about who or what runs the country.

M.C wrote:

Eh? http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/663089/Islamist-Turkey-Erdogan-seize-Christian-churches-Diyarbakir-persecution-state-property - forgive the express link but there's a lot of that kinda thing going on, in Turkey and other countries (Egypt for example) where Christians are having a hard time.


Yes, that's happening now in what appear to be less tolerant times. Whereas in the past it was accepted that different faiths could coexist, often within feet of each other. The point I was making was that Islam does, or at least did, perfectly tolerate other faiths. Government seizing the property doesn't make it right, but that's not Islam's fault, there are plenty in Turkey who oppose the move, as it says in the article.
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:


Yes, that's happening now in what appear to be less tolerant times. Whereas in the past it was accepted that different faiths could coexist, often within feet of each other. The point I was making was that Islam does, or at least did, perfectly tolerate other faiths. Government seizing the property doesn't make it right, but that's not Islam's fault, there are plenty in Turkey who oppose the move, as it says in the article.


Islam unfortunately, appears to be getting more radical and heading back to the stone ages as fast as it can.

Iran in the 70's looks like it was quite a cosmopolitan westernised country, far from the Burka state it is now.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:47 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
Yes, that's happening now in what appear to be less tolerant times. Whereas in the past it was accepted that different faiths could coexist, often within feet of each other. The point I was making was that Islam does, or at least did, perfectly tolerate other faiths. Government seizing the property doesn't make it right, but that's not Islam's fault, there are plenty in Turkey who oppose the move, as it says in the article.

Must be a complete coincidence the same's happening in other countries then.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 14:53 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

UnknownStuntman wrote:
I find myself oddly liking him. He's saying that parliament and church are different things and should be regarded as such. I see no danger of his beliefs influencing his decision making ability.


How about his business dealings?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/09/jacob-rees-mogg-denies-potential-conflict-of-interest-fund-links

Yes yes I know, a Guardian article...but still.

People in power should not have the ability to make decisions which will almost directly make them millions.

He is likeable, maybe he should run for mayor or something, just not PM.
Not sure if he would be worse than May though.
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 15:45 - 12 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:
UnknownStuntman wrote:
I find myself oddly liking him. He's saying that parliament and church are different things and should be regarded as such. I see no danger of his beliefs influencing his decision making ability.


How about his business dealings?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/09/jacob-rees-mogg-denies-potential-conflict-of-interest-fund-links

Yes yes I know, a Guardian article...but still.

People in power should not have the ability to make decisions which will almost directly make them millions.

He is likeable, maybe he should run for mayor or something, just not PM.
Not sure if he would be worse than May though.


Are "We" and the Guardian not stretching the realms of conflict of interest a bit here? I know they have a set agenda, but come on...

What next, scrutiny on where MP's do their weekly shop, to make sure any political decisions don't benefit their supermarket of choice more than another? Favorite brand of toilet roll maybe? I wonder if the chancellor of the exchequer picks his booze duty increases depending on what sort of tipple he likes?
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jjdugen
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 13 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the chancellor of the exchequer picks his booze duty increases depending on what sort of tipple he likes?[quote]

Ken Clarke did......
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grr666
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PostPosted: 15:17 - 13 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:

People in power should not have the ability to make decisions which will almost directly make them millions.


Isn't that exactly why power is sought after? Otherwise what's the point??? He'd be stinking rich either way though.
I think his enormous wealth makes him incorruptible. Mrs Mogg gets 45million when her inheritance comes in.
They don't need to change legislation to be minted, They already are, and Jacob started very young indeed. Here he is aged 12.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/12/19/00/0000962E00000CB2-3365646-image-m-33_1450483823157.jpg

He's a very likeable chap actually, he's knocked on my door a couple of times on the election trail and is very approachable
despite his breeding, and also despite my lack of. I laughed my arse off when I saw this pic of him in Keynsham High St a few
months ago. I thought he handled the dig at him very well. There is a church next to the tattooist, and where he had his stall
set up during the elections. The sign appeared in the tattooists window as soon as he begun canvassing on that
particular Saturday. Turned a public dig at him (By a distinctly average tattooist, btw I've met him too and seen his work.
Very meh...) into good PR. May could learn a thing or two from him. https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/pmcomposite-insetmogg.jpg?strip=all&quality=100&w=750&h=500&crop=1

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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 07:46 - 14 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
Its hard not to rather like him, perhaps mainly because of how much some others despise him.
Clearly a very intelligent thoughtful chap anyway.


Smoke and mirrors, I reckon.

People like him because he displays everything that we've been led to believe is 'British', insofar as he talks posh, has a reasonably stiff upper lip, he's clearly done a lot of Eton philosophy classes that the likes of you or I don't get taught in the national curriculum and, mainly, he's toff as fuck, which is the main aspect of Britishness that we've all had sold to us since the days of the empire.

Not that his ideas are disagreeable - http://www.jacobreesmogg.com/platform/ - but he isn't radically different from anyone else in UK politics.

He's starting to get a cult following on social media now too. The UK is entering the realm of celebrity politics. Seems like Boris Johnson was only the start.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 07:56 - 14 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

About the religious stuff - I think it's all becoming a bit of a dodgy path really.

The usual response is, "You can believe what you want, as long as you keep it to yourself." But in reality it's never like that. Your beliefs define you.

It relates to the concept of free speech too: "Say what you want, just don't let it turn physical."

It's absurd really. What you think and what you say/do are quite obviously going to be related. Hence I wouldn't necessarily ever want to trust a person with dogmatic and nonsensical religious beliefs, regardless of them being Catholic, Muslim or whatever else.

The only time a person can believe in any kind of god is when it boils down to the discussions about the start of the universe itself, because there's never going to be an answer for that. This however has no logical relation to statements like, "If you're gay you have to be stoned to death." That's just human idiocy.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:01 - 14 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
he displays everything that we've been led to believe is 'British'

Maybe in the Before Times.

I'm fairly certain that the Mogg's trendiness is a deliberate reaction to being force fed a diet of multi-kulti left-on propaganda. Now, that's British.


Lord Percy wrote:
he's clearly done a lot of Eton philosophy classes that the likes of you or I don't get taught in the national curriculum

But could have learned ourselves, had we chose.

Lord Percy wrote:
and, mainly, he's toff as fuck, which is the main aspect of Britishness that we've all had sold to us since the days of the empire.

Good job we've replaced those laughably old fashioned values of thoughtfulness, courtesy and decency with glug-glug-vroom-vroom-rape-rape sportsballers, sulky pop tarts and squawking "reality" "stars", eh?


Lord Percy wrote:
The UK is entering the realm of celebrity politics. Seems like Boris Johnson was only the start.

https://i.imgur.com/lBgrFhA.jpg
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 09:08 - 14 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
In my infallible opinion People like him because he displays everything that we've been led to believe is 'British', insofar as he talks posh, has a reasonably stiff upper lip, he's clearly done a lot of Eton philosophy classes that the likes of you or I don't get taught in the national curriculum and, mainly, he's toff as fuck, which is the main aspect of Britishness that we've all had sold to us since the days of the empire.

Not that his ideas are disagreeable - http://www.jacobreesmogg.com/platform/ - but he isn't radically different from anyone else in UK politics.

He's starting to get a cult following on social media now too. The UK is entering the realm of celebrity politics. Seems like Boris Johnson was only the start.


Corrected for you.

I like him because he talks sense, with a rare slice of honesty not often found in politicians. It has nothing to do with him talking posh and being "toff as fuck".
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 14 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never actually heard the fellow speak. I've read his words, and they seem reasonable enough, for a sky-fairyist. How regressive of me.
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