freeing up stuck clutch plates

[pompousporcup...]

Before i move to pulling the side cover off, removing all 16 plates from the clutch and having to buy tools/springs/gaskets etc is there a known to work way of freeing up clutch plates?

Long story short, i have fitted an engine that has been stood for a long long time to my gpz900r. It runs well enough and will sit happily idling in neutral. This weekend i tried taking it for a run out to see if all was OK but the bike just clunks into first and stalls.

It wont start with the clutch in when in first. It wants to go but just chugs forward as if its trying to start in gear.. ie the clutch lever does sweet FA. I kept trying to start it in first going up hill with the clutch in hoping the plates would release their grip on one another..

I suspect the plates have stuck together good n proper

[stinkwheel]

Start, paddle along with feet, knock it into first and get up to about 10mph. Pull clutch. Apply brakes.

Repeat until free or bored or brakes smoking.

EDIT: You have a main stand. Bike on stand. Stand over it covering front brake. Pull clutch and knock into first but keep the clutch in. Once the rear wheel is spinning reasonably quickly, stand on the rear brake. It'll probably stall a few times but should shock loose eventually.

My GPZ500 (basically your bike cut in half) used to do this all the time and that's how I sorted it out.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Polarbear]

Mates VFR 750 does it quite regularly due to him not using it for weeks at a time.

Centre stand and brake like Stinkers says works for him.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[pompousporcup...]

Right-O, will try that on the Abba stand
(took the centre stand off for MOT purposes )

Thanks folks.

My old gpz500 use to stick after a week or so but would free up if i started it in first with the clutch in. It would lurch about 6 inches and then free up and work without issue until i left it more than a week, especially in winter.

[A100man]

I wonder if this is related to the fact that side stands leave bikes leaning to left depriving the clutch of oil. Might be worth try to lean in to the right overnight - just a thought..
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Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[pompousporcup...]

[Polarbear]

[MCN]

Burst it open for a shoofti.
You may break something you need not break by blootering it free.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[pompousporcup...]

clutch tool ordered this afternoon so will see whats what when that arrives

Breaking something did cross my mind. I've spent a decent amount on this bike already

[Kickstart]

Hi

Cable tie the clutch lever back and leave it idling for a bit (might be more effective on the centre stand in gear, but even in neutral it can help).

Or for a real bodge, take the oil filler cap out, cable tie the clutch lever back (engine NOT running), and using a small screw driver lightly separate the plates.

All the best

Katy
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[ZRX61]

[Rogerborg]

Huh, thinking back, my GPZ500 did used to give me a small to moderate bang every morning even when left overnight. I'd assumed it was just mine acting up, but it sounds like it's a Kawasaki Thing of that era.

Nothing to add, really, I just had to give it some beans when knocking it into first, but it sounds like your clutch stack will be a big solid orangey block.
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[Polarbear]

[pompousporcup...]

[Chris45]

[MCN]

If that engine has been 'sitting around' for 12 years + without being properly preserved. (Cold Stacked)

Then the clutch is the least of the worries.

Cylinder Bores get rust on them overnight.
The film of oil that is left by the oil control rings is microns thick.
It assumes it will be washed off and re-applied the next time the piston passes by.

If not re-applied then condensation cycles in an insufficiently protected engine in 'storage' will dissolve that protective film of oil in a matter of months.

The the air can attack the sweet Iron...

And it will continue to attack as long as it has free access to the metal.

Iron/Steel will rust and rust and rust until there is no sold metal left.
It could rot a big wear patch in the cylinder bore.

(But the block and cylinders may be aluminium of course)

Aluminium passivates after some time 'rusting'.

Hopefully the engine was filled with oil up to it's lug (ear) holes and plugged then stored. Not ideal but as good as most folk can manage.
So long as it was not in the hold of a ship at sea or a harbour or a sea shore it should be fine.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[pompousporcup...]

turns out i only need to tool to remove the basket.. removing the plates/springs and pressure plate can be done without it.. ho hum. At least i have another tool for the box


@Mcn. I filled the cylinders with oil and turned the engine a couple dozen times by hand before doing anything, then left it over night to settle. Next day i connected the starter motor and turned the engine over for about 5 minutes with the plugs out to evacuate anything left in the chambers.. this was AFTER i set the valve clearances and filled the head and sump with fresh oil.

Cold compression on the engine was fantastic. IIRC all 4 were up around 150psi without any oil added and around 170 with oil lined bores quite lucky really as i expected many many more problems...
The only issues i have come across have been dried out coolant O rings(expected after a decade sitting), this clutch issue (also expected) and cylinder #4 plug thread being sketchy at best

[pompousporcup...]

little updatio:

This is what the old plates looked like vs some 'known to be working' ones. See the white schmoo on the inside of the clutch over too..
Comparing the two engines i have the old engine is much much cleaner inside whereas this one has surface rust on some of the bracketry etc..

https://s19.postimg.org/evfivzw2r/IMAG4047.jpg
https://s19.postimg.org/j3ab4qxib/IMAG4051.jpg
https://s19.postimg.org/7gushczkz/IMAG4050.jpg


The good set of plates are sat in fresh 10w40 waiting to go back on tonight Hopefully all will be working again and i can ride the thing tomorrow
Luckily everything on the good set is still well within the servicing limits.

[Polarbear]

You can probably clean up those seized ones if they are within tolerance, they don't look too bad other than the sticky marks.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[pompousporcup...]

[A100man]

I'd guess the white slop is emulsion from condensation especially if it hasn't reached temperature lately .
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Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[ZRX61]

The mayo is from water in the oil. The marks on the old steels will be gone the first time you ride it now you have the plates unstuck.

Told ya you only need a 10mm socket & ratchet gubbins
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They're not one night stands, they're auditions.

[pompousporcup...]

both correct that bit at the top was the last of the water/condensation ingress. Bike had not been taken out yet with the new engine so likely the fresh oil never got that far up the cover

@ZRX61: not dealt with clutches on any of the bikes before. I have a better understanding of them now

[ZRX61]

On the subject of "fresh oil never got that far up the cover"....

These engines are known to pump very slightly more oil to the top end than is able to drain back down to the sump at very high RPM. Not an issue unless you run the bugger flat out for miles & miles as which point they go bang.
Unlikely to be an issue in the UK as the roads aren't straight enough for long enough.
Kaw never did anything to fix this as it's pretty bloody rare, but it still happens on ZRX's hauling ass across parts of the US where you can run 140mph+ until you either get bored or sit up suddenly & get blown off the back of the bike...
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They're not one night stands, they're auditions.

[pompousporcup...]

Thats true. I think it was something to do with early engines have a small diameter oil return line. Later bikes had a better setup but wasnt perfect.
ZZR11s had to same issue i believe.

I wish i could run it flat out