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Gain experience on 125 after CBT or go on to full bike test?

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teammiem
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PostPosted: 10:53 - 10 Sep 2017    Post subject: Gain experience on 125 after CBT or go on to full bike test? Reply with quote

I passed my CBT earlier this year but delayed buying a bike due to having nowhere to store it, this is now sorted. During this time I've been advised (from experienced riders) that a bike with a little more oomph could be a good thing - helps to manoeuvre out of tricky road situations, etc.

As a 40 year old woman, I am a confident car driver, having passed my test at 18 but riding a motorbike, even with 22 years' driving experience, is a WHOLE different ball game.

I would welcome thoughts on whether I should gain riding/road experience on a 125 or consider getting my full bike test instead to enable me to get a bike with a bit more power e.g. Yamaha R3, nothing bigger than this, and at the same time, undergo a lot more instruction, training & experience?

Thanks in advance!
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 11:00 - 10 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't buy a R anything. Get a bike with a reasonably tractable engine and more neutral riding characteristics. You'll feel more comfortable, learn faster and probably ride it both faster and more confidently without it even feeling like you are.
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Ted
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PostPosted: 11:01 - 10 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's your end plan?

If you think you'll only potter around for a year or two on two wheels, then give up on biking, then just go for a 125.

If you want to ride for a good few years, maybe some longer distance stuff as well, then do the test.

Doing a bike test and buying a 500-750 is probably cheaper in the long run than buying a 125 and going a CBT every couple of years.

All depends what you want to do...
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 11:05 - 10 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's your budget?
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NJD
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PostPosted: 11:12 - 10 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given the knowledge, or lack of, that the CBT leaves you with at best, and given that it was your first go and some many months ago, I'd probably go for the license and make a decision afterwards given they'll most probably start you out, again, on the 125 cc and move you up when you display sufficient balance and control of the machine to handle something with more power.

I like the Kwak - a bigger bike with more power - more than I did my Arrow - a measly 8 - 10 hp 125 cc - but I wouldn't have wanted the Kwak as a first bike. It's all dependant on the person. Key is there's a whole lot more on the market with an A license than there is with a CBT, buy something you feel confident to handle at a dead stop - feet on the floor - and move around without the engine on and you'll be fine in the long run.
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mrtisme
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PostPosted: 12:30 - 10 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get on a DAS course you will get the feel of a big bike, trust me its a lot nicer to ride than a 125. Should be pay as you attend so give the big bike a try nothing ventured and so on.
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 12:57 - 10 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you feel that riding around on a 125 for a year or so at speeds of maybe 70mph, coping with busy traffic and with no further training than the CBT is for you, then you should do it. I myself did CBT then a 5 day DAS.
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Bozzy.
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PostPosted: 13:17 - 10 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP,

If you feel confident riding the 125cc then you should do DAS. A big bike is more stable once moving and the extra weight seems to disappear.

If you aren't confident on a 125, I'd probably get a few more road miles under your belt before DAS.

Also, you say a Yamaha R3? It's quite a sporty riding position (as in face down ass up) so are you sure this is what you want? You might be better with something like an MT07? An entertaining bike with a much more relaxed riding position.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 14:43 - 10 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not so sure about that.

I'd not call the R3 an overtly sporty riding position, in a focused cramped way like say a TZR250 3XV is. And while neither is a shit bike, bikes like the R3 and the Kawasaki Ninja are a semi sporty/tourery bike like maybe an SV650 is.

Oh and I'd advise against an MT07, as they seem to be a bit of an unsensible middle weight hooligan bike, and most I've seen in use are ridden in a very non sensible way.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 17:10 - 10 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Learning is for LIFE not licences....

CBT is but the first lesson covering the basics. Gong it alone, to 'get experience' is the school of hard knocks, which come hard on a bike, they don't suffer fools easily, and the lessons don't so much teach you what to do, as what NOT to do!!

Lessons teach you the 'right' stuff right at the start.. why wouldn't any-one think that 'useful'? Coughing up a few quid for lessons has to be less painful than falling of surely?

Learning to ride, should culminate in the tests, and that should grant you a licence. that licence MAY let you ride a bigger bike.... it is NOT compulsory! Its an any bike licence NOT a big-bike licence.

I have been riding 'almost' as long as you have been living... (I started young! No, seriously, I'm not quite 47!).. B-U-T.. I still ride a 125... on a full licence, because? Well, I'm a bit strange really!!!! (WOT! No argument from the BCF missive on that suggestion?)

It is somewhat perverse, actually for me at my age and riding years it's actually cheaper to insure the 750 than it is the 125, and the saving on the annual tax doesn't really make up for the difference, neither does the tiny difference in MPG I might see, so there's no real cost advantage to the tiddler... but it IS 'fun'... mines relatively light, and nippy, and it takes a good thrashing to make it go anywhere, let alone to get the best from it which makes it rather more rewarding than the big-bike that will pretty much go as fast as you ask it, if you twist the grip far enough!!! All far too easy!! Hence the 125 is a lot more engaging and rewarding to ride.....

For others? The cheapness can be made to work in their favor;. Usually smaller size, and lighter wight can offer advantage about town or parking and storing, especially for those of less, err, 'robust' physique than my 6ft bulk, There's plenty of reasons light-weights can be damnably useful.

And end of the day, most 125's can go just as fast as anything else is legally allowed to go in this country, and get you into just as much trouble just as easily, and there are just as many idiots out to knock you off to be dodged no matter how big the hole in your engine fire happens, happens to be. Little bikes don't make dangers ANY smaller, though they do, usually tend to be a little more manageable, and less daunting, but anything else is probably a false sense of security.

They are certainly no more dangerous, though stats do suggest it, but mainly because the majority of 125 riders are usually essentially untrained or qualified and or young and exuberant. Bigger bikes are no 'safer' ether, and may have the oomph to get you into trouble quicker if you let them, B-U-T ultimately the 'danger' is the nut behind the bars not the size of fire hole in the engine., and any suggestion a bigger bike will get you 'out' of danger is just as erroneous as a little bike will save you getting into it!

If you want 'safe' stay home.. but dont go to bed... more people die each years in beds than anything else!! Shocked !! ... its a wonder they are still selling them, to be honest! Wink

Bigger bikes? MAY be a bit more of a handful, can be a little more to manage, and certainly to the newby a bit more daunting; BUT usually with more weight, and more power proving a more 'flexible' power delivery, they can make a lot of stuff, particularly early learning manouvers like launchng that much easier, as their mass and flexibility 'damps' a lot of early rider lumsness and 'wobbles'... but learn on a lightweight, get the discipline and diligence to launch and manouver one thats ot so flattering without wobbling, then you can only ace it on a bigger bike.

Which is to say... separate the variables in the scheme here.

You have done CBT, you have had your first lesson.... you 'may' exploit legacy laws to head out on the road with no more training than that, on a 125 with L-'s in the school of hard knocks... OR you can go back to school for some more lessons......

Either way, objective should be to get a full licence....

Do you WANT to mugger about, going it alone, in the school of hard knocks, after just the first lesson, to hopefuly learn from your mistakes... OR do you want to get the training, to hopefully avoid them mistakes....

WHICH if the objective suggested is to build confidence, do you think will build more confidence and faster?

Getting a 125 and trying not to fall off it or be knocked off it...

OR

Getting onto probably a 650, and being nannied about the streets with a chap behind on another bike watching your bum, offering words of wisdom through a radio i your hat? A-N-D man with clip-board for personality at the end of it all, handing you a bit of paper that says "Congratulations - you have PASSED" on it?

Remember, once that done, you can SILL go get a 125 to do your early years riding on and build up post test confidence IF you think that a middle weight is too much to manage... or something in between, like a 250... BUT that question can wait another day.

Here and now, what bike might suit really doesn't matter. LEARNING is the issue. Building confidence is the issue. Whats the best way to get that?
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Bozzy.
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PostPosted: 17:32 - 10 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
I'd not call the R3 an overtly sporty riding position, in a focused cramped way like say a TZR250 3XV is. And while neither is a shit bike, bikes like the R3 and the Kawasaki Ninja are a semi sporty/tourery bike like maybe an SV650 is.


You're right!

Just checked cycle ergo, they suggest 20 degree forward lean for an R3 with a 5ft7 rider against 14 degree for MT07 which isn't massively different.

An SV650 is 25 degrees, and the S version is 36 degrees for comparison.

I'd assumed the R3 would be quite leany-forward to appeal to the up and coming Rossi wannabes!

stevo as b4 wrote:
Oh and I'd advise against an MT07, as they seem to be a bit of an unsensible middle weight hooligan bike, and most I've seen in use are ridden in a very non sensible way.


Not sure I understand that logic though. I would choose a bike that I liked and fitted my criteria. I wouldn't care if the bike had a stigma attached to it.

Besides, I'd hardly call a 70bhp parallel twin not sensible!
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 18:02 - 10 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I would ride the 125 on the CBT, you have afterall, 2 years to pass your theory, mod1 & 2 anyhow. Gain some road experience riding a motorbike, do your best not to pick up any bad habits, then, when the time is right, if it ever is right, go for the full license. On the plus side, you've no faffing around with various A category licenses.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:18 - 10 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahoy and welcome.

I went down the 125 route and had a blast wobbling around for a year. Then I passed my test (under the old system, on my own 125) got on bigger bikes, and realised that there was no point in me having done so.

Bigger bikes are far more capable and safer than a typical budget 125. More visible, better brakes and suspension, able to accelerate out of trouble (it does matter) and more stable. Paradoxically, they're safer than tiddlers.

Some 125-specific habits will serve you poorly when you get onto a bigger bike, like thinking you can stop on bad footing and hold it up, or thinking that accelerating out of of a pinch isn't an option.

Given that you'll have to do training and tests eventually, I'd just go straight to them. You'll get the most benefit from doing it sooner. You'll be surprised how easy it is to ride a big bike too.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 00:58 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Re: Gain experience on 125 after CBT or go on to full bike t Reply with quote

teammiem wrote:
During this time I've been advised (from experienced riders) that a bike with a little more oomph could be a good thing - helps to manoeuvre out of tricky road situations, etc.

It does, but the extra weight can also get you into trouble. How did the CBT go? That normally gives you an indication of if you need time on a 125 (I definitely did).
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Bozzy.
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PostPosted: 07:24 - 11 Sep 2017    Post subject: Re: Gain experience on 125 after CBT or go on to full bike t Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
teammiem wrote:
During this time I've been advised (from experienced riders) that a bike with a little more oomph could be a good thing - helps to manoeuvre out of tricky road situations, etc.

It does, but the extra weight can also get you into trouble. How did the CBT go? That normally gives you an indication of if you need time on a 125 (I definitely did).


^^ I agree with this sentiment.
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fidgetgreen
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PostPosted: 14:51 - 15 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a similar dilemma, after my CBT I didn't feel like I was confident enough to get straight on a 125 and I'm glad I didn't actually. I know I want a big bike so I did a 5 day DAS. I'm still trying to get my full licence but I feel a lot more confident riding now than I did before all the training. The 600 bikes also feel a lot more stable than the 125s do
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 16:46 - 15 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went out and bought a 125 to do my test on (back in the day when you could do a big boy test on a 125). The CBT was my first go at a bike on the road, with no real experience before. I was able to pass my test within a month with no training. It really was that easy.
As you don't have the luxury of being able to take your test on a 125 I would be doing a DAS training course. The extra weight of a big bike which is pretty much the only downside of a bigger bike also doesn't become an issue because you don't know any different.
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Stoker
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PostPosted: 23:33 - 15 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might find a 125 gets you through city traffic quite nimbly and cheaply, once you get onto dual carriageways and motorways on a regular basis you will find it detestable, for so many different reasons!
Follow the advice, pass your tests and get a more suitable bike.
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teammiem
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PostPosted: 16:05 - 22 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some really sound and valuable advice, thanks for all the words of wisdom....have decided to go on and do the full test!
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 17:29 - 22 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

teammiem wrote:
Some really sound and valuable advice, thanks for all the words of wisdom....have decided to go on and do the full test!

https://i.imgur.com/ZFQiKIz.png
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