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Anyone now considering an old bike with new MOT & Tax ru

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JonnyFoxtrot
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PostPosted: 16:02 - 05 Oct 2017    Post subject: Anyone now considering an old bike with new MOT & Tax ru Reply with quote

So with the new rules coming into play next year about no tax and MOT being required for 40 year old vehicles, has it made anyone think about picking up an old classic?

Any good pre-78 bikes out there that may now become cheap runners in terms of tax and MOT? Any you're waiting on in the next few years to reach 40 years?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:13 - 05 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

They giveth and they taketh away.

They are having a real clamp-down on people modifying/restoring vintage vehicles with modern parts.

A fair chance many of those re-booted E-types and Astons you see will land up on Q-plates.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 16:31 - 05 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't really see the point with bikes. It's not hard to get a bike through an MOT and tax isn't really an issue either. Classic bike prices seem a bit insane anyway, and I don't really want something like a Bantam (which seem to go for reasonable money) just to avoid a £30 MOT.
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Monkeywrenche...
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 05 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
They giveth and they taketh away.

They are having a real clamp-down on people modifying/restoring vintage vehicles with modern parts.

A fair chance many of those re-booted E-types and Astons you see will land up on Q-plates.


Restoring or Re-constructing? I know they're pissy about using new parts (major components like shell and drive train) to build an "old" vehicle and register it as such, but I thought if it was already registered you could just have at it.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/reconstructed-classic-vehicles

As for the question at hand, would running a 40 year old bike as your daily ride be more cost effective than paying 100(ish) pounds for tax and mot? I would expect not.
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 05 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can’t wait. YR5 ftw.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 17:22 - 05 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pile of Honda scrap and my tatty old Honda Superdream may soon become a viable option as a run about Smile
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B5234FT
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PostPosted: 10:20 - 06 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its a nice cost saving if you own one anyway, but not beyond that IMHO, certainly not worh buying one for daily duties
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johnsmith222
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PostPosted: 11:22 - 06 Oct 2017    Post subject: Re: Anyone now considering an old bike with new MOT & Ta Reply with quote

JonnyFoxtrot wrote:
So with the new rules coming into play next year about no tax and MOT being required for 40 year old vehicles, has it made anyone think about picking up an old classic?

Any good pre-78 bikes out there that may now become cheap runners in terms of tax and MOT? Any you're waiting on in the next few years to reach 40 years?


It might be worth it if you were looking for a bike roughly that age for a toy anyway, to aim for one outwith the tax and MOT requirements.

I suspect that even if you paid your MOT garage to fix your bike each year, you would end up paying less in time and money, than trying to find bits for a 40 year old bike, or maintaining one for daily use.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 06 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, is the short answer.
Would take many many years for the saving of £90 a year to 'save' the premium placed on 'Tax Exempt' added to the ask price in the ads.
Either way, it's insignificant compared to how much I would expect to pay on a every-day rider to keep it in decent nick,and I would be more concerned to pick something that was in better nick, and not a scrubbed up bit of prettily painted scrap, regardless of how old it was.
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wristjob
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 06 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like modern bikes.
i like just hitting the start button and going my merry way.
someone would have to pay me a lot of money to change to some old under powered(by modern standards) kick start,no brakes,no steering hipsters wet dream as a daily ride.


however as a sunday garage hobby bike, sure why not?
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 22:06 - 06 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like older bikes, but going back to the 70s is getting on a bit, even for me.

What do you buy that has a reasonable parts supply, half sensible performance and something approaching handling and stopping power?

There's a few UJMs that might fit the bill, CB750 SOHC, GS750/1000, XS750, Z650 (forget 900/1000, prices are already going stratospheric) beyond that, maybe a couple of BMs might work, nothing Italian or British is happening as a daily, unless you want to spend all your time fettling.

A quick look round Egay reveals no XS750s (they probably all blew up long ago) a couple of Z650 resto projects and a shonky looking GS thou import, that hasn't been UK registered - that's if you want to spend less than 2 grand.

I did find a reasonable CB750K for £1500, but that's also an unregistered import and had a few miles on the clock, so could be a gamble.

There's an R100 that's had a shit load spent on it, but now has a knackered engine, so there's a big bill right around the corner.

Other than that, prices are passing through 3 grand and heading on up to the sky's the limit - doesn't seem worth saving 90 quid for.
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Oldie
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PostPosted: 07:31 - 07 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not much point buying a 40 year old bike unless you are an enthusiast.

However, for those that are, the new rules just make life that bit easier. Even although tax is free, you still need an MOT to re-tax the bike and you just might not fancy that 30 mile rain-soaked ride to the MOT station on your pride and joy, especially having spent stupid hours tinkering and polishing what is, after all, really just a toy. Many classic bikes aren't really for riding (partly because they're investments) but you will one day, usually a fine Spring morning. All you do is go online and add it to whatever policy you fancy and off you go. No faff.

On the other hand, take a 40 year old "non-investment" type bike like a CX500. Used all year round and kept in roadworthy condition. Well, it's still a bit less hassle not having to MOT it, but maybe not enough to persuade youngsters to rush out and buy one (even although they should)
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 10:41 - 07 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'tax exemption' for 'historical' vehicles, isn't really any benefit for a sole 'daily' rider.

The 'intent' was, when the suggestion for 'rolling' age exemption was proposed thirty years ago, to promote the "Don't Hide'em, RIDE'em" philosophy, and encourage folk to get out and about on the old-iron rather than stash it in sheds as an 'investment'.

I know of a fair few folk with sheds full of old iron (Besides my own 'scrap'!), much of it lovingly and expensively 'restored'... then just left derelict under a tarpaulin!

In '98, when the original HVS 'tax exemption' was introduced, local MOT man was over-whelmed with, most notably one chap, who kept turning up with a Fiat van and builder's trailer, with 8 bikes at a time!! (Not ALL of them were his apparently!)...

It was actually a bit of 'daft' economics for the large part; 'Tax Exempt' isn't quite, its just 'no-cost'.. bike still had to be MOT'd and Insured.. so it only 'saved' a fraction of annual overheads on an 'occasional' rider, but it did encourage a fair few 'hiders' out onto the streets.

If they drop the MOT requirement? It similarly may encourage a few more Hiders out into the sun-light from time to time, but it's still penny-ante, in the scheme of stuff, and the insurance will still be more significant to most folk....

Curious, on quick glance that the MOT exemption DOES NOT follow the tax exemption rules; the MOT exemption seems to only be for vehicles built before 1960... and I cant see if it's a rolling threshold like tax.

I am more sanguine about MOT exemption... I DO think the MOT's useful, especially for 'occasional classics'....

Standards or restoration and maintenance on 'classics' is at best patchy; notion that 'all' old vehicles are valuable, and treated to the 'best' care is rather nebulous; and it's all too common for vehicles to only get 'skin-deep' restorations; the heavy and often more expensive mechanics, short-changed or even ignored, whilst major attention paid to paint and pin-striping, which is oft made plain by 'post resuscitation failure', when resto vehicles are pressed into (usually light!) service, and the jobs that were dodged or skimped on or just not done properly, show up as motors burning gallons of oil as old piston rings finally give out, or perished hard to get seals finally crumble under pressure... also not unknown for brakes, similarly 'short changed' on resto to give out when asked to work for a living, which is slightly more worry-some.

Notion that loads of folk will start buying up old shed find GS550's and the like with rotten swing arms, or drum-brake dirt-bikes with the lining de-laminating from the shoes, painting up all the pretty bits, and taking to the road with frayed cables and perished tyres IS rather worry-some!

The MOT IS at least 'some' precaution against the over ambitious and less clued up!

BUT... of the major overheads, insurance remains the kick in the crotch, and while 'classic' or 'small fleet' policies seem to make it 'appear' more affordable to run a classic.... personally, I don't think it much does....

The terms and conditions placed on multi-bike policies, have, over the last ten years, consistently seen me buy individual policies for each bike! They just 'haven't worked out 'cheaper' on a classic or combined policy; whilst small-print 'restrictions' most significantly the mileage limitations, have often been quite horrendous, to essentially deny any real chance of using a 'classic' as an every day rider, without getting a bit dodgy swapping clocks between MOT's and the like!

Interesting to note; when HVS was first proposed in the mid 90's, and came into effect, I think 1996; he 'rolling' 25 year threshold was a feature; one removed by the later 'New' labour Gov't within a year or so!

That 'froze' 'tax-exemption' for vehicles made before 1973.. a co-incidental year for bikes... that was the year that both the Moped Law for 16 year olds and the Compulsary Crash Hat laws were introduced, along with the bankruptcy of the BSA group, that propagated the collapse of the Brit-Bike industry in general, as well as marked the year-on-year decline in UK new bike sales, that essentially hit rock bottom n 1982 with the 125 learner-laws.

SO, the effect of the 1973 cut-off was to re-inforce the divide between 'old' 1960's and earlier 'Brit-Bikes' and later significantly Japanese 'Imports', and perpetuate the preponderance of the antiquated even in the 1960's Brit-Bikes as the quintessential 'classic'.

Re-inventing 'Tax-Exemption'..... now..... seting the clock to 40 years, err.... 1978.... oh! brings the bar forward oooh! a WHOLE five years, fro what it has been set at twenty five years ago! AND sees it again favour the old 1960's Brit-Bikes.. and pay token favour to a declining number of 'imports' from the 70's.....

In a couple of years, the threshold, IF it is allowed to move, will start to include early 80's machines.. from an era of declining sales... where there weren't an enormous number of bikes originally sold to be granted tax-exemption and even fewer will have survived the ravages of time!

It wont be for another decade or more, that bike-sales started to pick up, and bikes like the early Jelly-Mold CBR600's, start to become eligible for HVS... and such devices, with such intricate designs, and complexty and such niggles as acres of expensive custom moulded body-work, that are already not just a restorers nightmare, but more difficult to even keep in service as a 'rat-rider', WONT likely benefit much from gaining HVS tax-exmption... A-N-D.. back to the MOT.... how many, will be likely to properly 'restore' something like a CBR600, to 'brochure' standards, and find the money to find replica fairings and have them expensively painted to match that years colour livery, compared to the number that will likely 'give up' as they already do, and 'fighter' them.. and then moan that brakes are rubbing or sticking, or forks are weeping damper fluid, B-U-T gleefully point out "It dont matter.. Don't need an MOT!" Shocked

Either which way, the 'saving' of the Road-Fund-Duty' is small potatoes, and when brand new cars are so often favored by 'emissions based' excise, It IS all made much of a mockery!

KEEP the MOT.. if you cant afford £30 and half an hour to take your vehicle for one, you cant afford one full stop! And it IS the one assurance we have that the vehicle has at least had some one pay some attention to the safety bits!

As far as Road-Fund-Duty is concerned? Having got rid of the actual tax disc, the arguments for having ANY is now even more questionable, especially when they have over 90% duty on road fuels! THAT at least is being paid in proportion to either how many miles a vehicle does and/or pollution it makes!

The whole system, more now than ever is bureaucracy for its own sake, and the tax man refusing to give up any little grip on a cash cow he may have!

It's signficantly not 'new' just a re-invention of something introduced over twenty five years ago, and bastardised by new-labour, with the clock essentially re-set, back 'almost' to what it was then.... and almost zero use to any-one. WITH a lot of strategic 'politics' in it to make it 'look' like they are doing something 'friendly'.. that has as little real 'impact' on anything at all! But that's politics I guess! (But, I am STILL disappointed, that I last voted for the Liberals, when they promised that would result in a 'Hung' parliament, and they never strung up a single bludy one of'em! Politicians, the only thing they can be trusted to do is NOT keep their promises! Laughing )
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Fin
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PostPosted: 19:29 - 07 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
just to avoid a £30 MOT.


Gov.uk wrote:
The maximum fee for a car is £54.85 and £29.65 for a standard motorcycle.


I get my bike MOT for £25 or so, you also have to be really fucking broke to consider getting a really old bike just to avoid tax and MOT, I'd say you're more likely to come into problems with a bike that old and end up spending more to fix it.

Go for it anyway for the experience.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 16:21 - 08 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's tempting for me because the London ULEZ rules also have some kind of age-related exemption - although I'm not sure if it's the same exemption. Tempting to get an early 70s large Harley to sit alongside my daily newish one.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 18:51 - 08 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fin wrote:
M.C wrote:
just to avoid a £30 MOT.


Gov.uk wrote:
The maximum fee for a car is £54.85 and £29.65 for a standard motorcycle.


I get my bike MOT for £25 or so, you also have to be really fucking broke to consider getting a really old bike just to avoid tax and MOT, I'd say you're more likely to come into problems with a bike that old and end up spending more to fix it.

Go for it anyway for the experience.

My £25 place only check the lights/indicators, I like them to do a bit more Smile

Robby wrote:
It's tempting for me because the London ULEZ rules also have some kind of age-related exemption - although I'm not sure if it's the same exemption.

That makes it a bit more appealing, although you'd still probably be better off getting a >57 plate.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 08 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:
It's tempting for me because the London ULEZ rules also have some kind of age-related exemption - although I'm not sure if it's the same exemption. Tempting to get an early 70s large Harley to sit alongside my daily newish one.


Yes it does apply to bikes, it applies to anything in the historic tax class. Stripped FLH's are my favourite shovel heads.
If you take a look at the prices of 10 seater LWB series landrovers they have shot up in price the last few years as many are VED free, congestion charge free and will soon be ULEZ free as well.
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