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M.C
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Joined: 29 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: 00:57 - 10 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
M.C wrote:

Conversely the NHS penny pinch and always go for the cheapest option, at least that's my experience of them.


As long as it's a valid option, so they should. I don't want them throwing money away when they don't need to.

I don't agree, people should be given the best possible treatment, not just the cheapest option. It's a fallacy anyway, if you don't treat people properly they stay sick and remain a drain on the NHS, if you do they go away, spend less time off work, are generally more productive.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 10 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Conversely the NHS penny pinch and always go for the cheapest option, at least that's my experience of them.


Who are you to judge what is penny pinching and what is a prudent waiting period to see what happens?

I was admitted to hospital recently as a precaution and have since been checked for virtually every cancer possible just to be sure. In my experience the NHS never penny pinch but they do behave responsibly such as not giving a CT scan for every little hurt as they do in the US.

Have you ever considered that as you are young the consultant doesn't want to perform surgery on you as it may mean a life of constant surgeries every few years?

M.C wrote:
It's a fallacy anyway, if you don't treat people properly they stay sick and remain a drain on the NHS, if you do they go away, spend less time off work, are generally more productive.


And sometimes you can't make the person well again, you are just bridging time until they need further surgery/treatment.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 14:04 - 10 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

NHS Doctors base decisions on many very significant factors and 'most' Dr. are also in the job to help people.

A very brief list:
The patient's needs.
The suitability/effectiveness of treatment/s. Some care is not suited to all people and their individual condition. Disease can be like a personality.

The availability of resources. Cost is a factor there but if available it will be considered.
Even a treatment that only provides relief for a short time before death will also be considered as 'End of Life Care'.

Damming the NHS is never a clever path to follow.

If you don't like it then live in a county where fuck all care is provided.

And the countries with the largest populations are the countries with the least effective health care.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
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M.C
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Joined: 29 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: 16:36 - 10 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
Who are you to judge what is penny pinching and what is a prudent waiting period to see what happens?

I was admitted to hospital recently as a precaution and have since been checked for virtually every cancer possible just to be sure. In my experience the NHS never penny pinch but they do behave responsibly such as not giving a CT scan for every little hurt as they do in the US.

Have you ever considered that as you are young the consultant doesn't want to perform surgery on you as it may mean a life of constant surgeries every few years?

Not actually had mine yet but it was 2+ years of not being given a scan, and even when they reluctantly agreed I was still being told it was a waste of NHS resources (until they did find something). Having dozens of physio sessions was a waste of time, even though the physio knew there was something more serious going on, but again it was all about NHS resources.

Quote:
And sometimes you can't make the person well again, you are just bridging time until they need further surgery/treatment.

I appreciate that, but I know for certain my health has deteriorated through their apathy and incompetence.

MCN wrote:
Damming the NHS is never a clever path to follow.

If you don't like it then live in a county where fuck all care is provided.

I don't agree with this logic. People (on here) go on about how the NHS kills competition, it feels like you have one option and the services you have access to depends on your local trust.
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Jmoan
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Joined: 18 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: 00:13 - 14 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:

Damming the NHS is never a clever path to follow.


Why? Will they spy on you with RIPA then deal with you like they do whistleblowers?

Quote:

If you don't like it then live in a county where fuck all care is provided.


Why should we when a service that we're forced to use and pay for might not be operating as well as it should be or have harmful conflicts of interest.?

If I were to live in a country with little healthcare I would want to educate myself on all things medical so why is it we can train the NHS yet keep the public in ignorance?
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Ed Case
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PostPosted: 18:21 - 14 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had a 'double-decompression' operation on my lower spine 20 years ago. Two discs had partially collapsed trapping nerves within the spine. No option but to have it done but any spinal surgery has to be a 'last resort' as your back's well worth leaving alone if possible. In my experience it'll never be as good as it once was.
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J0Al1
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 15 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Conversely the NHS penny pinch and always go for the cheapest option, at least that's my experience of them.


If they did penny pinch then C-Sections would be a lot less common.
£500 per person.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:14 - 15 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

J0Al1 wrote:
M.C wrote:
Conversely the NHS penny pinch and always go for the cheapest option, at least that's my experience of them.


If they did penny pinch then C-Sections would be a lot less common.
£500 per person.

I thought they did push for natural births.
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Nexus Icon
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Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 13:18 - 16 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
J0Al1 wrote:


If they did penny pinch then C-Sections would be a lot less common.
£500 per person.

I thought they did push for natural births.


Pushing is part of the process.
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 16 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

My GF is a healthcare economist, working in the social policy unit at LSE. She's of the opinion that a lot of things are broken in the NHS, but it's not due to penny-pinching.

Whether NHS funds something or not is often decided based on cost per QALY: quality adjusted life years. If you're old and the quality improvement isn't large, it's less likely to be funded than if you're young and the quality of life improvement is large.

The trick is in determining the cost (this is what my GF works on, on a day to day basis - developing models to estimate costs based on studies and data). Interventions, as they're called, need to be costed correctly; not just the up-front cost, but the ramifications down the line. In longitudinal studies, you can gather data about outcomes from interventions, further service use, etc. What proportion of the population ends up in remission vs relapse.

One place where things get messed up is in the data gathering phase of studies. Well-meaning people fudge numbers and misreport statistics to inflate the benefits and diminish the costs of an intervention, because they think that "doing something is better than doing nothing", even if it's not scientifically the best thing to do relative to other options, or even if it has no effect at all.

The other place it gets messed up is in politics. There are a lot of sneaky directives that come in via people funding studies, or policy decisions from civil servants directed by politicians, that subvert or sabotage or influence outcomes to appeal to some political group or ideology, rather than scientifically measured improvement in the population.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:07 - 16 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

barrkel wrote:
She's of the opinion that a lot of things are broken in the NHS, but it's not due to penny-pinching.

I've been told the opposite, unless I'm misunderstanding what's meant by NHS resources or don't have a scan because that'll bankrupt the NHS.
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 6 years, 166 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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