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Shed - How do insulate plz

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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 10:55 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
Since you've spent decent money so far, you may as well have it done right. So get a sparks in and get some
armoured core cable run to your fuse board indoors then the run buried and fed up into your structure rather than
doing something temporary. If you have a separate breaker board/ consumer unit inside the structure then it
can have separate circuits for lighting and power.


Eurgh that's the thing. To get directly from my fuseboard it'll mean digging up my newly laid drive .... or going through the kitchen, that's been fitted about 2 months, want to avoid having to lift the floor there too ...

Everything was happening all at once and my silly brain couldn't comprehend asking the driveway people, " just run this line from here to here when you're doing your stuff plz m8".

I have a back up option... maybe. Got flooring to lay in the living room, it's a long way around but I could run it out the back and across the back garden to the shed. That probably means a run of about 25 metres when in reality, the shed is about 3 m from the main fuseboard of my house. fk.

I considered a simple out door socket and hook up a connector there but thought if I was going to that extent I could just run a permanent wire to my fuseboard.

Stupid stupid stupid.

Picture for interested parties, containing my old kitchen units and some shelves courtesy of screwfix:

https://i.imgur.com/zvXPCv5.jpg

Edited to add : My mate is a sparky so I'd get everything checked over by him, I did the labouring while rewiring the house so I have an idea of how to run cables and let him to the actual connecting and testing.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can surface mount armour core if necessary. There are cable clamp/clips available.
Not a perfect solution but can you not break into your ring main in the kitchen and add a switch spur to power the shed?
It'll mean chasing in another single socket sized hole adj to a socket, but that's about it. Minimal making good.
Then you could keep messing with the new kitchen to a minimum and drill to outside right through the back of the socket
box. Then run armour core cable down wall and into rear of shed. Connect consumer unit to that inside the shed
as already suggested. Or as you've already said, run a MUCH longer cable.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrSnoosnoo wrote:
To get directly from my fuseboard it'll mean digging up my newly laid drive .... or going through the kitchen, that's been fitted about 2 months

Bragthreading intensifies. Tut Tut
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 11:44 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrSnoosnoo wrote:


Eurgh that's the thing. To get directly from my fuseboard it'll mean digging up my newly laid drive .... or going through the kitchen, that's been fitted about 2 months, want to avoid having to lift the floor there too ...

Everything was happening all at once and my silly brain couldn't comprehend asking the driveway people, " just run this line from here to here when you're doing your stuff plz m8".

I have a back up option... maybe. Got flooring to lay in the living room, it's a long way around but I could run it out the back and across the back garden to the shed. That probably means a run of about 25 metres when in reality, the shed is about 3 m from the main fuseboard of my house. fk.

I considered a simple out door socket and hook up a connector there but thought if I was going to that extent I could just run a permanent wire to my fuseboard.

Stupid stupid stupid.

Picture for interested parties, containing my old kitchen units and some shelves courtesy of screwfix:

https://i.imgur.com/zvXPCv5.jpg

Edited to add : My mate is a sparky so I'd get everything checked over by him, I did the labouring while rewiring the house so I have an idea of how to run cables and let him to the actual connecting and testing.


Spoiler Alert
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
You can surface mount armour core if necessary. There are cable clamp/clips available.
Not a perfect solution but can you not break into your ring main in the kitchen and add a switch spur to power the shed?
It'll mean chasing in another single socket sized hole adj to a socket, but that's about it. Minimal making good.
Then you could keep messing with the new kitchen to a minimum and drill to outside right through the back of the socket
box. Then run armour core cable down wall and into rear of shed. Connect consumer unit to that inside the shed
as already suggested. Or as you've already said, run a MUCH longer cable.


All my plug sockets are tiled in!! haha I'm a knob. I was in and out of the country with work while the drive was getting done, didn't have chance to find out about the right size cables etc etc.

Now, I've a socket behind my washer directly on the back wall of the house it's fused at a switch thingy (don't know the proper name) on the wall above the worktop. If I took power from this, I'd be limited by that fuse wouldn't I?

If I can get to a cable that powers a normal wall socket, could I splice into that and send it out?
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 12:55 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

thx1138 wrote:
Spoiler Alert


You may notice the tasteful "addition" of lacquer peel. The missus thought it was a convenient place to place her handbag every time she went looking for her keys...
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grr666
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that switch thingy is a 13a spur. It's there because your W/M needs to able to be isolated from power without
physically touching it in the event of a possible problem. It will almost certainly be wired into your ring main.
If you switch off the circuit breaker for your socket ring main and it stops working then there's your answer.
That's essentially what I'm proposing, except instead of running a single appliance it runs whatever's in your shed instead.

It should be possible to either add a spur alongside an existing double socket (but this will require some careful
cutting of tile and chiselling out) or perhaps consider sacrificing one of your doubles for a dual single pattress box
fitted with a single socket plus spur configuration to give you your connection.

https://www.grax.co.uk/Upload/SiteImages/L/EL0535.jpg
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 13:21 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
Help


Yes I get ya. I was there when it was all wired in, I did the donkey messy work to get the channels and back boxes in. Also, he mentioned the cable was way overrated, came from a site he was working on, white sheath, very inflexible unlike the thinner grey sheathed one we wired the rest of the house with, so I'm sure the cable will cope with the extra load.

If I wired something like that in beneath my cabinets, maintaining the ring I could drill out the back wall easy enough. Next issue, you can't see it in the pictures. My house has a concrete fookin walkway right around the house, except where it was removed doing the drive. Really. should. have. done. this. when. drive. was. being. built.

So I suppose I'd dig a channel out beneath the concrete, drill a hole down and fish the cable out underneath somehow? Then I could trench it across to the shed (600 mm deep I'm reading?) where I'm picturing it, it's about a 4 m stretch to get to the concrete base. I assume it's ok to allow the cable to come directly up the side of the concrete pad to go through into the shed wall, providing it's secured well?
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MCN
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PostPosted: 17:21 - 25 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
MCN wrote:
maisturento


Is that a type of Covfefe?



Cubnt!!!

I was on a Sansum Glyasy tad and theer are a fwe tpoys.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 26 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice shed!

I've found with several sheds water always finds a way in between boards. Best fix ive found is use expanding foam. Don't run it into the tiny gap between each timber but instead spray out a dollop onto a bit of card/board/plasterers thingsmsjig (like e if you were plastering) then spread gobs of it along the join lines. It will expand into gaps. Its cheap effective and actually works better if there is any damp as water activates the foam. Any excess is easily removed/cut away/sanded.
Im not sure you need a damp barrier either. All that will do is trap moisture against the wood and that cant be good.
A good thick coat of Polyurethane external wood paint is a good idea as well but do plenty of coats and use a light colour to reflect heat off. I painted my last shed a dark green and it was like Japanese POW punishment sweat box in the summer.

I would also re-enforce the door surround by sandwiching it with plywood sheet bonded to the door frame with polyurethane glue and then round headed bolts.

Remember, more security is always MORE security. Let the thieving gits have a go at the easier target down the street.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 15:18 - 26 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

On electrics. Basically.

40cm deep. Sand base. Armoured cable of suitable amperage for needs and equal or less rating of cable supplying it unless running to its own RCD at domestic consumer box. If spurred from existing ring circuit needs done via its own fuse box (RCD these days).
Lay electric cable warning tape 10cm above cable then bury the lot.
Its up to you if you get a qualified electrician to sign off on it.
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 15:27 - 26 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could burrow under the driveway using plastic pipe if it ain't too rocky down there. I've seen it done on short runs of a few metres under concrete slabs when running cabling for lifts inside a garage.
Certainly not an easy option, but doable.
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 15:59 - 26 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've made my mind up, with regard to electrickery.

Between my shed and the kitchen wall, I'm going to put in a wooden frame containing a gate, I think it'll be good to have a barrier between the front and rear of the house, stops the pikeys just being able to walk around at least.

I'm gonna run armoured cable along the outside of the wall, to meet the top of the frame and run the cable through that to the eaves of the shed. I really can't face digging the drive up. It has soooooo much hardcore under there, not to mention the edging stones are cemented in too.

My mate, the sparky, reckons we'll be able to do it and keep it tidy. I already have a long drain pipe running along the wall from my boiler so I should be able to avoid extra lines along the house, too.

Also, regarding insulation; I'm worried, probably too worried, that I'll get some insulation in and I'll board it all in and it'll cause my nice new shed to rot away for holding moisture against the outer walls ... Recently I've thought about a simple method of just putting a bathroom extractor fan in on one of the walls, that'll help with some air changes ... maybe?
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doggone
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 26 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt enthusiasm for running a fan would last long, natural would easily suffice.
How often is a wet bike being put in there, if daily it will get damp regardless, once a week or so you can hope to keep it dry.
I kind of agree about risk of insulation boards actually trapping moisture, which I why you should have an air gap, or don't bother just add another layer of plywood or similar inside.
This will still largely eliminate condensation and draughts, and it will be easy enough to heat a small space for an hour or two you might be in there.
It will get below freezing much easier though so think about what's kept in there e.g. No paint or garden chemicals.
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haroman666
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PostPosted: 17:21 - 26 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrSnoosnoo wrote:
Also, regarding insulation; I'm worried, probably too worried, that I'll get some insulation in and I'll board it all in and it'll cause my nice new shed to rot away for holding moisture against the outer walls ... Recently I've thought about a simple method of just putting a bathroom extractor fan in on one of the walls, that'll help with some air changes ... maybe?


I don't speak from any solid knowledge or experience here, but I would have thought powered ventilation might be overkill. A flue/chimney type vent would surely suffice for a small, non-segmented area.
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 11:47 - 27 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're putting power in, seal it up like a Tupperware box and put a dehumidifier in there.

If the outer walls are letting water in, they'll also be drying out through the same gaps. As long as you're not allowing moisture to migrate from inside to an outside cold barrier which then causes trapped condensation you shouldn't have rot issues.
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 13:10 - 27 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

haroman666 wrote:
I don't speak from any solid knowledge or experience here, but I would have thought powered ventilation might be overkill. A flue/chimney type vent would surely suffice for a small, non-segmented area.


Don't call me Shirley Dance!
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haroman666
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PostPosted: 13:15 - 27 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrSnoosnoo wrote:

Don't call me Shirley Dance!


Doh!

Dad... Is that you?!?
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grr666
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 27 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrSnoosnoo wrote:
Don't call me Shirley Dance!


???
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 18:59 - 27 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quick question of my own about electric sockets in such a shed. Would you?

1, fit plastic dry wall back boxes into your second inner skin, plyboard or whatever your using?

2, fit surface mount proper metal sockets and run proper metal or plastic conduit to them/between them? Would look more workshop like, but is more work.

Or would you fit IP rated outdoor power sockets and switches in there instead or is this way overkill for a shed?
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doggone
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PostPosted: 19:35 - 27 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

In such a shed there will be times when interior surface might be dripping wet, proper waterproof switches are advisable.
However it also ought to have earth leakage trip switch so at worst if you got a tingle one very foggy morning it won't be fatal.
If starting new now you may as well pay a bit more for ip65
I doubt you need more than a couple of light switches and two double sockets.
But if I already had normal house style switches I wouldn't be changing them in a hurry.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 22:13 - 30 Sep 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
DrSnoosnoo wrote:
Don't call me Shirley Dance!


???


https://youtu.be/ixljWVyPby0?t=66
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MCN
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PostPosted: 16:19 - 01 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fans...

Not a mental thought for a 'workshop'.

It doesn't take more than five mins for CO to build up from an un-ventilated petrol engine.

The eves of my garage are almost level with my boiler air vent.
I put a CO alarm in the garage just in case the boiler fumes vented under the roof as I was tinkering and I woke up dead of CO asphyxiationitus.

There was no CO off the boiler but I had the bike running one day with the doors open and the alarm went off it's head about three minutes after I started the engine.

Shocked
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Kris
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PostPosted: 08:35 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd put a timber floor in, it'll be warmer than concrete.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 09:17 - 18 Oct 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
I'd put a timber floor in, it'll be warmer than concrete.


Should be. Thumbs Up

Shocked
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