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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 08:35 - 16 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:


It's 15 minutes if you don't have the foresight to charge your car at home (or hotel or where ever you're staying) or if your journey exceeds the range of your vehicle on one full charge. That's 250 miles with a Bolt, 249-295 with a Tesla depending on model. Do you really do that mileage every day?

Pretty sure a 15 minute break would be a good thing for any driver after nearly 300 miles.

Also if you just fitted chargers in parking spaces you could have a lot more people "filling" up at once while people stop for a bit of food/drink and a slash.


Yep, that is where some people aren't looking at this the right way. As the number of charging points, and also the ability to charge at home, there will be far less reliance on traditional filling stations. I'm not just talking about Motorway services and the such like, but supermarkets, general car parks and charging point around town. Heck, even IKEA has charging points, perfect for when you fancy some swedish meatballs & chips, feed the car/bike, whilst you feed yourself. And yes, most people wouldn't travel daily over 300miles, and for the times you do, just a little forethought and planing. In fact, electric vehicles could even save you time ..

Traditional fuel powered car, taking the family on a day out to Blackpool. Get so far, kids & you need to bog break, and the car needs filling up .. So, what do you do?

Pull into the services, sort out the food and bog, eat the food. Get back to the car, drive to the filling station, hope there's not a queue, fill up, queue to pay, drive off.

With and electric car. Pull into services, plug in the car, sort out the food and bog, eat the food. Get back to the car, unplug the charger, drive off and gleefully ignore the queue at the filling station.

Now even on a bike, it's relatively rare to travel over 100 miles without taking a break, so, a similar scenario to that above for the car.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:15 - 16 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
It's 15 minutes if you don't have the foresight to charge your car at home

Sure, because everyone has a garage. If they don't, we should just pass a law.


ScaredyCat wrote:
on one full charge. That's 250 miles with a Bolt, 249-295 with a Tesla depending on model.

That's completely full to completely empty, which nobody will ever do.

ScaredyCat wrote:
a 15 minute break

If there's a free socket when you roll in.

ScaredyCat wrote:
after nearly 300 miles

The claim is 15 minutes for an 80% charge, and that'll won't be 20% to 100%, it'll be empty (which you'll never do) to 80%.

So assuming the usual margin of it's-not-lies-it's-just-marketing, let's generously say 20 minutes for 70%. 70% gets you 175 miles, except that you won't be doing 175 miles unless you fancy running out of juice. I'd expect you'll see flashing empty at about 125.


ScaredyCat wrote:
Also if you just fitted chargers in parking spaces

Yes, let's pass a law. That's that taken care of then.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 16 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
That's completely full to completely empty


No it isn't, not in Tesla's case.

Rogerborg wrote:

ScaredyCat wrote:
Also if you just fitted chargers in parking spaces

Yes, let's pass a law. That's that taken care of then.


What has the law got to do with it? I'm sure you can point me at the law that said we must have all our current petrol stations.

Norway are fitting chargers to street lamps so you can charge beside any of them you don't need a garage at home.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:02 - 16 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
That's completely full to completely empty


No it isn't, not in Tesla's case.

Rogerborg wrote:

ScaredyCat wrote:
Also if you just fitted chargers in parking spaces

Yes, let's pass a law. That's that taken care of then.


What has the law got to do with it? I'm sure you can point me at the law that said we must have all our current petrol stations.

Norway are fitting chargers to street lamps so you can charge beside any of them you don't need a garage at home.


Best move to Norway then because it ain't going to happen in UK until it will pay for itself and that isn't going to happen until there are enough electric cars to make it worth while which isn't going to happen until there are enough charging points which isn't .......etc.

We are going to disagree on this all day, and time will tell who is right.

FWIW what Roger says about charging before you get anywhere near the red is true, especially until you do have a charger on every parking bay. FFS I rarely let my old dinosaur eating C Max get below a quarter tank before filling up and that still has more range in the tank then than most electric cars have when fully charged.
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rpsmith79
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PostPosted: 13:08 - 16 Nov 2017    Post subject: Re: Evoke - Starting to be a company to watch? .. Reply with quote

wr6133 wrote:
nowhere.elysium wrote:
that's £400 or thereabouts, right?


The fancy one is about £200 with no battery. £390 with the top spec 72V, 35.3A black gold battery (I'm still sure I'm translating that wrong but wife is not here to correct me).


Duracell???

https://www.ocado.com/productImages/195/19521011_5_640x640.jpg?identifier=f9eb0c72c0a12e289d58c913db12e994
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 16 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

Best move to Norway then because it ain't going to happen in UK until it will pay for itself and that isn't going to happen until there are enough electric cars to make it worth while which isn't going to happen until there are enough charging points which isn't .......etc.


I think you're probably stuck in a BCF time bubble. It is happening now, there are chargers all over the place. BP and Shell don't do this stuff for shits and giggles either, they know there's money in it and right now they're in the position (they have shit loads of money) to install chargers en masse which means they'll still be involved in fuelling of the future.


Polarbear wrote:

We are going to disagree on this all day, and time will tell who is right.


Indeed.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 16 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
Polarbear wrote:

Best move to Norway then because it ain't going to happen in UK until it will pay for itself and that isn't going to happen until there are enough electric cars to make it worth while which isn't going to happen until there are enough charging points which isn't .......etc.


I think you're probably stuck in a BCF time bubble. It is happening now, there are chargers all over the place. BP and Shell don't do this stuff for shits and giggles either, they know there's money in it and right now they're in the position (they have shit loads of money) to install chargers en masse which means they'll still be involved in fuelling of the future.


I know how Shell operate after 40 years working for them and they will throw large sums of money at project that they think will make them look ethically good whether or not they will make money. (that isn't to say it won't, but how much will they make on having 1 car cluttering up a forecourt for 15 minutes minimum?).

It looks like our lovely government will make it law to have charging points on filling station forecourts there by letting them off the financial hook ( they hope) of installing them at parking bays. The problem here again is time. I would think people will expect to park up for work and leave their car plugged in until they come back to get it that evening.

Also Shell are expecting medium term propulsion to come from LNG. They already have lorries in the states powered by LNG. Ships are changing to LNG due to no/low emissions (as opposed to LPG which does have normal products of combustion emissions).

https://www.shell.com/energy-and-innovation/natural-gas/lng-for-transport.html

However I acknowledge you might be totally right about electric vehicles. They might have a breakthrough in battery design. Also pigs might fly and the Duchess of York might want to give me a blow job and I reckon of those, the last is the most likely. Wink
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 15:17 - 16 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
the Duchess of York might want to give me a blow job and I reckon of those, the last is the most likely. Wink


Given her track record I think you're right.
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BillyJ
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 19 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Any idea what kind of battery tech they're using? Lead, nickel, lithium, dissident adrenal glands?


Samsung SDI 18650's
https://www.samsungsdi.com/about-sdi.html

Source: https://www.evokemotorcycles.com/evoke-tech
And I spoke to their rep at the NEC yesterday. The urban S will be released in the next few months.

Wikipedia wrote:
The Urban S[3] is an Italian inspired naked street bike (see types of motorcycles) that has a 100% electric drivetrain and a 200 km (125 mile) range. It is the first mass produced Evoke bike available and was released in China in summer 2015 and is available in selected European countries in early 2018. When released, it will be the lowest cost, entry level electric motorcycle on the market with a $9499[4] MSRP. The Urban S is aimed at the new rider demographic but is also suitable for riders looking for a low maintenance environmentally friendly method of commuting.

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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 16:19 - 19 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where $1 == £1 I suspect.
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BillyJ
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 19 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
Where $1 == £1 I suspect.


Yep I agree, especially after import taxes etc
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 22:12 - 19 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

And you can get some sumptuous ICE bikes for that money.

It says you can use car charging points. A question, is there any parking restriction on ICE cars parking in a place with an electrical point? Will you get a ticket?

If so, what about parking an electrical bike in a car place to recharge because I'm damn sure there are no electrical bike points around.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 11:07 - 20 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

620 miles on a full charge seems better. Or is that still too few for you lot?
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G
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PostPosted: 11:16 - 20 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
620 miles on a full charge seems better. Or is that still too few for you lot?

If it's a bike - how heavy, how much and at what speed?
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 20 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
ScaredyCat wrote:
620 miles on a full charge seems better. Or is that still too few for you lot?

If it's a bike - how heavy, how much and at what speed?


Tesla Roaster. Not a bike Sad
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G
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 20 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

No weight listed yet, alas.

Still; when sat next to the bigger Lambo, may still not be too bad.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:27 - 20 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
620 miles on a full charge seems better. Or is that still too few for you lot?


Yes that's a useable range, even allowing for exaggeration, stopping before you run out etc. So say 500 miles usable. Thumbs Up And the performance figures are insane.

There is a slight problem even so, a $250,000 problem. It's not exactly mainstream prices is it. Also I read somewhere that the battery pack is approaching a tonne in weight. OK, not so much of a problem in a car as a bike.

I have seen 1 (one) Tesla on the road so far. Does anyone have their sales figures available?
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asta1
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PostPosted: 16:29 - 20 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
There is a slight problem even so, a $250,000 problem. It's not exactly mainstream prices is it. Also I read somewhere that the battery pack is approaching a tonne in weight. OK, not so much of a problem in a car as a bike.

I have seen 1 (one) Tesla on the road so far. Does anyone have their sales figures available?


Is the $250,000 figure really a problem? Ignoring the electric vs ICE, If Ferrari or Audi released the exact same car with those performance figures we wouldn't question it. It's a range topping vehicle with massively more performance than we need day to day. Hence it's expensive, just like all the competitors in that segment.

The model S is about £80,000 in the UK I think, so not cheap, but no more than a decent spec Range Rover or 7 series whilst the Model 3 is around £35,000, so no more than a decent 5 series. Tesla seem to be reasonably competitive on price in their target markets.

As for market share, the answer seems to be small but with massive growth

https://www.nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/statistics/

122,000 plug in hybrids and pure electric cars in the UK and Tesla is in the top 10 makes based on sales beating offerings from Renault, Volkswagen, Volvo and Nissan. Not bad going for a car company which only floated 7 years ago.

How many left reckons 6,672 Teslas on UK roads, up from 4,513 in 2016, so a 48% increase YOY.

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/?q=tesla

They are also becoming increasingly popular cross Europe with a 2.2% market share.

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/10/31/tesla-1-3-near-record-month-europe-electric-car-sales/
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 16:40 - 20 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
There is a slight problem even so, a $250,000 problem. It's not exactly mainstream prices is it.


$250,000$200,000 is not really a problem at all.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mbtjt17kuhrgqg3/teslaroad.jpg?raw=1


Polarbear wrote:

I have seen 1 (one) Tesla on the road so far. Does anyone have their sales figures available?


There are 3 where I live and that's the middle of nowhere...
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 20 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
ScaredyCat wrote:
620 miles on a full charge seems better. Or is that still too few for you lot?


Yes that's a useable range, even allowing for exaggeration, stopping before you run out etc. So say 500 miles usable. Thumbs Up And the performance figures are insane.

There is a slight problem even so, a $250,000 problem. It's not exactly mainstream prices is it. Also I read somewhere that the battery pack is approaching a tonne in weight. OK, not so much of a problem in a car as a bike.

I have seen 1 (one) Tesla on the road so far. Does anyone have their sales figures available?


I've seen quite a few about now .. It used to be a surprise to see one, but not so anymore
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G
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PostPosted: 16:58 - 20 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

KW/m recharge rate - Bugatti wins massively.

You can get someone to make you a drag car quicker than either for a good bit less I would guess.

So the real test will be how it handles around corners.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 17:30 - 20 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
KW/m recharge rate - Bugatti wins massively.


Bugatti will drain its tank in 12 minutes - possibly just sitting at a set of traffic lights, let alone moving.

But it's besides the point. You could easily use the Tesla as a day to day car. Bugatti, not so much.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 17:36 - 20 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

asta1 wrote:


122,000 plug in hybrids and pure electric cars in the UK and Tesla is in the top 10 makes based on sales beating offerings from Renault, Volkswagen, Volvo and Nissan. Not bad going for a car company which only floated 7 years ago.


I'm actually not sure what that actually proves.

That rich people have more disposable income to spend on a toy?

That the offerings from the mainstream manufacturers for mainstream use are just not good enough to promote sales?

I'm sure if you had an electric vehicle costing £20,000 that had a 600 mile range it would sell like hot cakes irrespective of the performance but they don't which is why they don't sell.

Again it's back to usable range.

A hybrid now, that's a completely different kettle of fish.
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G
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PostPosted: 17:40 - 20 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:

Bugatti will drain its tank in 12 minutes

At maximum speed; I believe.
How long will the Tesla last at 261mph?
Will it's tyres manage that without exploding?
Main reason for not use the ICE here is the hideous price of everything because it's a world-topping luxury status symbol.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 20 Nov 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
the ICE here is the hideous price


So we agree that the Tesla price is acceptable for the performance?
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