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| MCN |
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MCN
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| solemnwarning |
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solemnwarning
Borekit Bruiser
Joined: 23 Jun 2012
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 Posted: 20:49 - 28 Nov 2017  Post subject: |
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| RhynoCZ wrote: | | solemnwarning wrote: | In my haste to report my findings on the stator, I hadn't seen the table of expected resistances between pins of the regulator/rectifier.
Mine don't line up with what the manual says they should, each pin combination is either infinite resistance or brief continuity (too brief to read on my cheap meter) followed by infinite resistance. Assuming the readings I see are some internal capacitors charging up.
Worrisome? |
TL; DR, read my post, do that! Even the cheapest and crappiest multimeter will give you the answers in a matter of seconds. |
I did read your post, and per my post 3 posts before it, the stator is producing 62.5v between each phase with the engine running, manual states it should be >=75v, but I don't know if this is likely the be the cause of my problems because I'm dubious of each phase being equally wrong.
I've now reassembled everything after cleaning the relevant connections, it sits around 13.5v once the engine is spun up a bit and doesn't charge at tickover.
I don't think there are any shorts or abnormal heavy loads on the bike, as the battery voltage doesn't drop from its rest voltage (11.8v at the time of testing) when connected, if I switch on the ignition, it slowly creeps down, as I would expect from a partially-discharged battery driving lights, ignition coils and whatever other electronics witchcraft is involved in making it go.
It is also worth noting I've been able to start the bike off the battery several times during all this.
So I see four possible things here:
a) The stator is failing, and each winding is failing just as much as the other
b) The regulator/rectifier has failed in some way, perhaps not allowing current from all phases?
c) The GS500 charging system is just that naff and an unreliable voltage somewhere in the range of 13-13.5v is normal. On this point, I'm fairly certain the lights are just as flickery as they always have been.
d) I have an intermittent fault. Yay intermittent faults!
So... any advances on whether its normal for a stator to fail in such a way as to slightly reduce the voltage across each winding by the same amount?
Thanks |
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| RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ
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Joined: 09 Mar 2012
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| Posted: 20:50 - 28 Nov 2017 Post subject: |
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| MCN wrote: | It is not as simple as it all seems.
The matter is complicated if you continue to use the product after fault has been detected/suspected.
There is a fancy legal word for it. But if you continue to use the faulty goods even whilst waiting for the law to intervene you may lose in court.
The six years is what has been set as 'reasonable' length of time for some stuff to last and work as sold.
But all depends on lots of variables.
The courts are expensive so folk do not chase it or if small claims can help your case will be 'vetted' to determine if there is any hope legally. You would be discouraged from proceeding with legal action if not much hope as small claims still need to be heard in a court of law. |
Genuinely interesting stuff. 
The Land of Beer has much simpler system.
1) 24 months for everything sold to a consumer (compulsory)= with exemptions, such as food, things that decay quickly, ... and some special cases.
2) ''Quality guarantee'' (optional) = this goes beyond the 24 months, it's basically the extended warranty, but for free.
The manufacturer guarantees that his product or its part will last longer than the 24 months. Typically, you buy a vacuum cleaner and the manufacturer states that the motor in the vacuum cleaner has 5 years warranty. This means the whole machine is covered by the 24months (the shell, accesories...) and the motor itself is covered beyond that. If the engine goes before the 5 year period is up, the manufacturer is legaly obliged to deal with it. But the manufacturer won't be legally obliged to bother with the rest of the machine and its accesories.
Worth knowing, the ''Quality guarantee'' may be stated and is legally binding if stated on the packaging, in the instructions/owner's manual included with the merchandise and the advertisement. Which means if some manufacturer is stupid enough to claim, for instance, his vacuum cleaner will last 50 years, you pretty much get guarantee for life. 
No court time required in 99% of cases.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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| RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ
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| Posted: 21:08 - 28 Nov 2017 Post subject: |
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| solemnwarning wrote: |
I did read your post, and per my post 3 posts before it, the stator is producing 62.5v between each phase with the engine running, manual states it should be >=75v, but I don't know if this is likely the be the cause of my problems because I'm dubious of each phase being equally wrong.
I've now reassembled everything after cleaning the relevant connections, it sits around 13.5v once the engine is spun up a bit and doesn't charge at tickover.
I don't think there are any shorts or abnormal heavy loads on the bike, as the battery voltage doesn't drop from its rest voltage (11.8v at the time of testing) when connected, if I switch on the ignition, it slowly creeps down, as I would expect from a partially-discharged battery driving lights, ignition coils and whatever other electronics witchcraft is involved in making it go.
It is also worth noting I've been able to start the bike off the battery several times during all this.
So I see four possible things here:
a) The stator is failing, and each winding is failing just as much as the other
b) The regulator/rectifier has failed in some way, perhaps not allowing current from all phases?
c) The GS500 charging system is just that naff and an unreliable voltage somewhere in the range of 13-13.5v is normal. On this point, I'm fairly certain the lights are just as flickery as they always have been.
d) I have an intermittent fault. Yay intermittent faults!
So... any advances on whether its normal for a stator to fail in such a way as to slightly reduce the voltage across each winding by the same amount?
Thanks |
One thing, resting voltage of a healthy 12V battery is 12.5-12.6V. 12.4V is still good but requires charging. Yours being 11.8V, I'd say it's dead or soon to be. The cold weather makes the starter work harder (thicker oil, metal being very cold...). The battery has possibly a few starting procedures in it, but it will get worse, pretty quickly I'd expect.
Note: When buying a battery, it pretty much says 12.4V min on it. The vendors should not sell batteries that have less as ''brand new''.
11.8V would still work alright in summer. You see this with car batteries all the time. The moment winter comes all the weak, near dead batteries will start showing. Might not be that pronounced in the UK, but here where the temperatures drop way bellow the freezing point it's very common phenomena. There's also the stuff about how many miles you should do after each start before shutting the engine off.
I had a car battery at 12.1V resting. In summer it was alright, but then it was getting colder outside and you could tell the starter motor was really struggling. Moments later the car would not start. Charging didn't save it, it was a sealed unit so I couldn't do a thing.
Now, if the 13.5V you have is at idle, than the charging is pretty much alright.
EDIT: At this point, I would just charge your 11.8V battery and use it as long as it's capable of it. Charging it to 100% (or close) will take several hours, maybe days with motorcycle battery charger. Don't use a high Amp car battery charger.
When I say charge it, I mean take it out and put it on a charger. Riding it won't charge it at this point.
EDIT II:
The intermittent fault might be just your battery dying.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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| iooi |
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iooi
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| Fizzer Thou |
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Fizzer Thou
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| solemnwarning |
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solemnwarning
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| Posted: 17:27 - 01 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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A few more data points...
I charged the battery up on Tuesday night, haven't needed jump starting since then, although it has been sluggish to crank a couple of times. The rest voltage was 12.5v when I checked it this morning, after sitting overnight.
Went on an 80 mile ride with a meter tied to the handlebars so I could watch the battery voltage as I rode:
Around the beginning of the journey, the system was at ~14v at tickover, rapidly falling to 13.5v around 4,500-5,000RPM as the engine span up.
Around the 35 mile mark, it was at 12.5v at tickover and 13.9v while cruising, this remained for the rest of the journey.
The highest voltage always seemed to be around 3,000RPM (14.0-14.2v), dropping slightly above or below it.
I switched the heated grips on/off throughout the ride and the only time it made even a slight difference was at tickover during the 12.5v phase, which I think discounts the charging system being overloaded or a poor connection (unless intermittent).
So... I think the alternator is producing sufficient power, and the charging system is mostly holding the voltage high enough to charge the battery, but the regulation is iffy due to the odd pattern of voltages observed and this sometimes leaves the battery discharged.
Any further suggestions before I get another regulator?
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| lihp |
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lihp
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andyscooter
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| merquis00 |
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merquis00
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| Posted: 15:08 - 03 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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| andyscooter wrote: | EBay motobatt was a load of fakes knocking about
Like the fake NGK plugs on eBay
Always use a genuine seller o
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this^
got a few of them
Had one die last year after little use and when i inevitably played "musical batteries" i noticed, side-by-side, the dead one was slightly off.
eg: top sticker looked like a bad scan. could be any number of reason's, but with ebay you just go "fake" and move on (and if no one is looking, cry a 'lil  )
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Current: 2010 WR125X, Carrera crossfire-E.
Project's: '88 GL1500 Trike, Chinese 170cc Monkey
Previous: X9-500, XT125, DNA125, CBF125, YZF-R125, '98 K1200RS, '99 St1100, fantic245 |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 145 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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