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Brexit: What do you think will happen?

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mpd72
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PostPosted: 14:29 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:

There you go again with your limited view of the world, making your assumptions.


Just as you assume the EU doesn't have plans for "even closer cooperation" leading it to become a Federal State, with it's own army and central fiscal policy.

I suspect this is more likely than not and evidence is growing rapidly.
Have you seen Shultz's Tweets from earlier?

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A convention shall draft this treaty in close cooperation with the civil society and the people. Its results will then be submitted to all member states. Any state that won’t ratify this treaty will automatically leave the EU.

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"I want a European constitutional treaty that creates a federal Europe", said Schulz, the former European parliament president, proposing a written convention involving civil society and citizens.

The treaty would then be presented to all member states for ratification, with those that reject it automatically leaving the bloc, Schulz proposed in a speech at a Berlin meeting of some 600 delegates.

He suggested a target year of 2025, one century after the SPD first spoke of a future "United States of Europe".

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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:39 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:


Martin Schulz‏Verified account
@martinschulz
A convention shall draft this treaty in close cooperation with the civil society and the people. Its results will then be submitted to all member states. Any state that won’t ratify this treaty will automatically leave the EU.


Rolling Eyes And to think, we could've just waited.
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kippyzona
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PostPosted: 14:42 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would it save us £50 billion quid?
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 14:58 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
ScaredyCat wrote:

There you go again with your limited view of the world, making your assumptions.


Just as you assume the EU doesn't have plans for "even closer


I didn't assume that at all. You made another assumption about that.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Well, which is it to be? Borders, or no borders? Nations, or one happy clappy peaceful integrated equal tolerant plentiful world?


Nationalism isn't just about having borders or not - it's also an attitude.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 15:02 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone want to point out to butthurtnationalistprick72 that when Itchy was pointing the stuff out that he's just recycled, he slagged him off rotten?

Laughing
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 15:06 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
mpd72 wrote:


Just as you assume the EU doesn't have plans for "even closer


I didn't assume that at all. You made another assumption about that.


You called a "Federal State of Europe" an assumption and criticised me for it, ergo, you don't "assume" it will happen.

Quote:
There you go again with your limited view of the world, making your assumptions.


^^^^ that means you don't agree, therefore you assume it to not be what the future holds within the EU.

So, do you assume the EU has no intention of becoming a "United States of Europe" or a "Federal State of Europe"

Yes/No.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
Nationalism isn't just about having borders or not - it's also an attitude.

Is your attitude that we shouldn't have borders?

Instead of asserting that you haven't said things, maybe you could advocate for whatever your position actually is.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
It makes no difference if we leave or remain now. Half of the nation is going to be angry at the other half no matter what and it'll take generations that that to go.

Productivity is low but that's because of all the disabled people who are working, apparently.

This country is a legend in it's own lunchtime. What started out as a way to shut up anti-europe Tories and prevent their party splitting has snowballed when all they really needed to do was wait a few years for most of them to die of old age.

The decisions are being made by lazy incompetents with no vision, morals or commitment. We're going to wallow in infighting whilst the country degenerates.

So you've committed yourself to being upset about (the outcome of) a democratic referendum for years to come? Are you for real?

Sure it was a selfish political gamble by Cameron but don't forget people like that nasty mini-hitler Farage campaigned a long time for this, I find it hilarious UKIP achieved their objective despite such little political impact, you know 4 million votes equating to f**k all.

And again you're arrogantly assuming the motives of those who voted to leave. It wasn't only elderly white racists, it was a mix (on both sides). Yeah yeah yeah the polling says, this is the same polling that got the referendum wrong, the last two general elections wrong, the US election wrong.

Rob Fzs wrote:
Most twats that went to uni and got told the EU is great and the Tories are evil voted to remain, most people who just went out to work understood the reality.

But the official government line was that we should remain (remember the 9 million quid leaflet?), so if they were really anti-government/Tory surely they'd do the opposite?

I kinda understand the younger = more idealistic and maybe naive to certain issues argument, but again that's a generalisation.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 17:04 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
people like that nasty mini-hitler Farage

Oh, we do.

While we're waiting for the cat's meow, let's hear just how srs Brexit is.

The president of the CBI Paul Drechsler wrote:

Any country.

Ever.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
Rob Fzs wrote:
Support of the Eu is about ' what can the country do for me''


No it isn't. It's about seeing beyond nationalism.

Rob Fzs wrote:
"what i can do for the country''


Your country doesn't give a fuck about you. They'd sell you for a penny chew, 5 minutes of press time or as cannon fodder whithout a second thought - take your pick.

Why do you think you owe it anything anyway?

If MPs put the country last why would you expect anyone else to do any different?

This country went down the shitter a long time ago. It has nothing to do with the EU, nothing to do with imigration but everything to do with the self obsessed, money grabbing, selfish society we've built for ourselves.


Rob Fzs wrote:
So why do the Europeans have a better vision?


I don't recall saying that they did.


looks like i hit the nail on the head ,you salty cunt

This country is fucking great, it would be even better, if miserable whinging cunts such as you, would stop sniping and trying to squander our resources to a 3rd party that wishes to centralize an entire continent to Brussels.

Most conservative people, such as myself are not tremendously bothered about the direction of the country, idiots such as you, that are forever trying to change for the sake of change will never be pleased, and your little strawman arguments as to why brexit happened amuse us the most, because you will never understand why people voted to leave.

You love the Eu soo much, yet you're here? why? i'll take a punt at it being the most economically convenient for you, which goes back to my initial point.

You're abit of a fucking parody remainer really, you're whinging about us being focused on money, yet that's the whole thing the remain campaign was built on, the real reason our political system is bent is because of the lack of focus on politicians and policy, of which branching it out to Brussels is supposed to make it even better, once sovereignty is restored, then we can start having a deep understanding of what we're part of, rather than doing as you do, and allowing anything to happen ''for the greater good''
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Last edited by Rob Fzs on 17:56 - 07 Dec 2017; edited 4 times in total
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
ScaredyCat wrote:
It makes no difference if we leave or remain now. Half of the nation is going to be angry at the other half no matter what and it'll take generations that that to go.

Productivity is low but that's because of all the disabled people who are working, apparently.

This country is a legend in it's own lunchtime. What started out as a way to shut up anti-europe Tories and prevent their party splitting has snowballed when all they really needed to do was wait a few years for most of them to die of old age.

The decisions are being made by lazy incompetents with no vision, morals or commitment. We're going to wallow in infighting whilst the country degenerates.

So you've committed yourself to being upset about (the outcome of) a democratic referendum for years to come? Are you for real?

Sure it was a selfish political gamble by Cameron but don't forget people like that nasty mini-hitler Farage campaigned a long time for this, I find it hilarious UKIP achieved their objective despite such little political impact, you know 4 million votes equating to f**k all.

And again you're arrogantly assuming the motives of those who voted to leave. It wasn't only elderly white racists, it was a mix (on both sides). Yeah yeah yeah the polling says, this is the same polling that got the referendum wrong, the last two general elections wrong, the US election wrong.

Rob Fzs wrote:
Most twats that went to uni and got told the EU is great and the Tories are evil voted to remain, most people who just went out to work understood the reality.

But the official government line was that we should remain (remember the 9 million quid leaflet?), so if they were really anti-government/Tory surely they'd do the opposite?

I kinda understand the younger = more idealistic and maybe naive to certain issues argument, but again that's a generalisation.


Vote leave was a tory ran campaign
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:28 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Fzs wrote:
Vote leave was a tory ran campaign

I get that, I remember Bojo and Gove and the others, my point was that the official government position was to remain. So was Labours, they just went quiet on the issue post-referendum (like May) hoping people would forget, despite the infighting on their 'new' position. The lib dems were the only f**k you and your referendum party, for all the good it did them.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 17:34 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Rob Fzs wrote:
Vote leave was a tory ran campaign

I get that, I remember Bojo and Gove and the others, my point was that the official government position was to remain. So was Labours, they just went quiet on the issue post-referendum (like May) hoping people would forget, despite the infighting on their 'new' position. The lib dems were the only f**k you and your referendum party, for all the good it did them.


Going on the polling, not many people knew what Labours position was

Just like now with their position to the single market, i watch them everyday and i still cant fathom what their position is.

i remember all the shit being shared on facebook, from the usual uni twats, giving lists of what EU funding had provided, along with another list of who tory austerity had killed

Arseholes that have no idea that when the pound value rises, the FTSE drops, were blaming that on brexit jitters before the vote

Some arsehole jean monet professor was going viral from Liverpool Uni saying it would be impossible for us to leave the Eu because of all the laws, and these 'young non conformists' lapped it all up.

You'd think when the likes of Goldman sachs and JP Morgan were funding the remain campaign, the young would smell a rat, but they didn't say a word, then once the ref was over, they went back to bashing the bankers.

Cameron was abit thick really, he allowed for everyone on the remain side, to say the tories once we left, would remove every workers right/ environmental standard going , emboldening the idea that the tories are evil and the EU was good.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 18:02 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Fzs wrote:
This country is fucking great,


By what measure? An lot of people think something is great until they see and experience something better. This is not to say everything is better, but an awful lot of things people think is great isn't.



Rob Fzs wrote:
You love the Eu soo much, yet you're here? why? i'll take a punt at it being the most economically convenient for you, which goes back to my initial point.


Better to be the king of hell than a servant in heaven?
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Rob Fzs wrote:
This country is fucking great,


By what measure? An lot of people think something is great until they see and experience something better. This is not to say everything is better, but an awful lot of things people think is great isn't.



Rob Fzs wrote:
You love the Eu soo much, yet you're here? why? i'll take a punt at it being the most economically convenient for you, which goes back to my initial point.


Better to be the king of hell than a servant in heaven?


Health, education, social housing, cheap food, public services, free speech, the list goes on.

I'm sure you can tell me how great other places are, but by the grand scheme of things, this place is pretty great.

SCaredykatz solution will undoubtedly be the version of which his specific political ideology 'has never been tried before'
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 18:19 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
ScaredyCat wrote:

I didn't assume that at all. You made another assumption about that.


You called a "Federal State of Europe" an assumption and criticised me for it, ergo, you don't "assume" it will happen.


Errm, no. Just no. Your logic is fucked up. You seem to think that having a different opinion to you means you can attribute any opinion you like to the other party.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 18:27 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
So you've committed yourself to being upset about (the outcome of) a democratic referendum for years to come? Are you for real?


Perhaps you don't think the effects will last very long?

M.C wrote:

And again you're arrogantly assuming the motives of those who voted to leave. It wasn't only elderly white racists, it was a mix (on both sides). Yeah yeah yeah the polling says, this is the same polling that got the referendum wrong, the last two general elections wrong, the US election wrong.


I take a stab that your comprehension skills are a bit shit. You've failed to read what I wrote. I wasn't talking about the general populace, I was talking specifically about the Tories - They have a divide in their party and have for some time, those who want out at any cost. The referendum was Cameron saying "Come on then" expecting zero contest.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 18:27 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
[

Errm, no. Just no. Your logic is fucked up.


Good good you're starting to see through mpd now.

Like I've said he's effectively a contradiction. He'll slag people off for one thing yet then take this exact same view and use it to slag somebody else off.

All in all he has no core values whatsoever... typical Tory in effect.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 18:29 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Fzs wrote:


looks like i hit the nail on the head ,you salty cunt

This country is fucking great, it would be even better, if miserable whinging cunts such as you, would stop sniping and trying to squander our resources to a 3rd party that wishes to centralize an entire continent to Brussels.

Most conservative people, such as myself are not tremendously bothered about the direction of the country, idiots such as you, that are forever trying to change for the sake of change will never be pleased, and your little strawman arguments as to why brexit happened amuse us the most, because you will never understand why people voted to leave.

You love the Eu soo much, yet you're here? why? i'll take a punt at it being the most economically convenient for you, which goes back to my initial point.

You're abit of a fucking parody remainer really, you're whinging about us being focused on money, yet that's the whole thing the remain campaign was built on, the real reason our political system is bent is because of the lack of focus on politicians and policy, of which branching it out to Brussels is supposed to make it even better, once sovereignty is restored, then we can start having a deep understanding of what we're part of, rather than doing as you do, and allowing anything to happen ''for the greater good''



Wow pure unadulterated drivel. Trying to give mpd a run for his money?
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GT200Fan79
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PostPosted: 18:37 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:



Wow pure unadulterated drivel. Trying to give mpd a run for his money?


Lol I love it when thumbhead get fucking pwned Laughing

You fucking liberal cuck.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 18:41 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Fzs wrote:
emboldening the idea that the tories are evil



I dunno, evil means direct and polar opposite to the values you hold.

They certainly hold an awful lot of direct and polar opposites to those many hold. I mean even the most ardent and hardest capitalists/tax me less types on here were against the tribunals now cost money.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 18:47 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT200Fan79 wrote:
Lol I love it when thumbhead get fucking pwned Laughing

You fucking liberal cuck.


One day you might manage to bring something useful to the debate. Sadly, yet again, not today.

Pwned? No not really, he just typed shouty angry.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 19:10 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Cutting out a tumour is a painful, messy business, but the alternative is worse.



Sure but putting in another tumour isn't particular smart is it?

A lot of the problems are actually self inflicted. You yourself said the company you work for is hiring Bulgarians.

Why not train up some natives? Ah but that would cost money... and thus goes back to the money/greed issue.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 19:18 - 07 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob Fzs wrote:
Most conservative people, such as myself are not tremendously bothered about the direction of the country


Can you show me anything that suggests this, other than your opinion? I'm happy to concede the point if you can.

Rob Fzs wrote:
are forever trying to change for the sake of change


You're mistaken, the change is leaving. Staying is the status quo.

Rob Fzs wrote:
your little strawman arguments as to why brexit happened


Which ones?


Rob Fzs wrote:
you will never understand why people voted to leave.


I'm guessing it's because you're angry, but who knows. Give me some good reasons why you want to leave. Your reasons.

Rob Fzs wrote:
You love the Eu soo much


You're mistaken.

Rob Fzs wrote:
yet you're here? why?


Do you advocate running away?


Rob Fzs wrote:
i'll take a punt at it being the most economically convenient for you, which goes back to my initial point.


I've lived and worked in Europe for more than 10 years, there was more money there (weird stuff like 13 months of pay (not 12) 'holiday pay' which was an extra month etc) I simply wanted to come back to the UK and it had nothing to do with money at all.


Rob Fzs wrote:
You're abit of a fucking parody remainer really, you're whinging about us being focused on money, yet that's the whole thing the remain campaign was built on.



So, let's be clear. You don't like it when those who vote leave are all tarred with the same brush (racists/old farts/whatever) but you firmly believe that everyone who votes remain "did it for the money"? My position on the process has nothing to do with money.


Rob Fzs wrote:
the real reason our political system is bent is because of the lack of focus on politicians and policy, of which branching it out to Brussels is supposed to make it even better, once sovereignty is restored, then we can start having a deep understanding of what we're part of,


The real reason that our political system is broken is because politicians are self serving, dishonest blaggards with their own self interests at heart, not those of the country they are supposed to serve. And yes, before you ask, I'm talking about all parties; not just the Tories. Just look at the ridiculousness of our current parliament right now. We have a PM who can't sack anyone because she's too weak, trying to carry out negotiations that she is incapable of doing. Any negotiations need someone who is strong to lead them. May is weak and is surrounded by weak players because it's all she can find. She's not even 1/4 of Thatcher.


Rob Fzs wrote:
rather than doing as you do, and allowing anything to happen ''for the greater good''


Aren't you doing precisely that? This current government is making a pig's ear of everything they touch- standing by and watching them do their worst is "allowing anything to happen" for what you perceive to be "the greater good".
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