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New V4 Panigale

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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 16:13 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:


To have a proper discussion about this new Panigale, price wouldn't be a consideration, but purely how good it looks, and/or how well it performs.


Yes, but it IS relevant.

When you can get a bike with similar or arguably better performance for less money, why wouldn't you?

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/zx.jpg

That is a LOT less money, for a bike with similar technology, very very similar performance and a World Superbike winning pedigree.

My point is that Ducati trades on it's name and pedigree and style, not on performance or value.
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 16:43 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:

My point is that Ducati trades on it's name and pedigree and style, not on performance or value.


They might well be one of the more expensive brands in the motorcycle industry but there you go again saying they are more about appearance than performance.

I beg to differ when they make 205 / 211 bhp V-twins / V4s.

Anyway, this is boring as fuck now. You stick to your older bikes and leave riding newer models to me Mr. Green
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:32 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:


When you can get a bike with similar or arguably better performance for less money, why wouldn't you?


If money isn't a problem, because you like this bike, for whatever reason.

Tbh, I'm a little puzzled by your approach to this. You say what I quoted above, but then earlier you said:

MarJay wrote:
I've ridden 150bhp bikes... Too much for the road. As I said before, exhilarating, not fun.


So maybe you already know why you wouldn't necessarily buy the higher performing but cheaper bike. Image, aesthetics or maybe you just love the brand.

I've never thought to look at different options for bikes I buy for sheer fun factor. Either I was knocked out by the model under consideration, or I wasn't. If I was, I bought it. When I bought the Denco-tuned H2 Kawasaki, I didn't think, ah, but there are better handling, faster bikes for the money. This was the bike that stole my imagination at the time, so I bought it.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 18:39 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
So maybe you already know why you wouldn't necessarily buy the higher performing but cheaper bike. Image, aesthetics or maybe you just love the brand.


Because I was referring to the track comparison of the Ducati, in which I was saying it doesn't matter that it's .2 of a second faster around a track because most people don't use it. A lot of people, people who buy litre sportsbikes WILL go on performance, and the Ducati just doesn't have it. At least not to justify the extra money. It's too powerful to be a 'fun' bike and too expensive to be good value even as a 'fast' bike.

It's USP is that it is a Ducati, no more, no less. I think we all agree on that in a round about way. Trying to justify it in any other way is pointless.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:52 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
Because I was referring to the track comparison of the Ducati, in which I was saying it doesn't matter that it's .2 of a second faster around a track because most people don't use it. A lot of people, people who buy litre sportsbikes WILL go on performance, and the Ducati just doesn't have it. At least not to justify the extra money.


You seem to switch between road and track arguments to suit yourself Confused

I think as long as you get a certain level of performance and handling, track bikes aside, it doesn't really matter that much which litre sports bike you go for. The Ducati has plenty, it has a tradition behind it, it is uniquely different to Jap IL4s, and they look pretty good.
Track performance? Well, if you were truly serious about that, you'd probably tweak anything you bought anyway, wouldn't you?

At the end of the day, the only justifications you need are, I want it, and, I can afford it, so to that extent, I guess we are in agreement Smile
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Marjay is having the ego wobble here tbh!

If your mad into Kawasaki's and cut your arm, and your blood runs green, or you won't let anything else from another manufacturer into your garage, then of course your going to buy the ZX10R.

But telling OP to buy one as it's better VFM than the Ducati he likes is just plain daft IMO!

If you like Italian bikes then why saddle yourself with a Japanese bike and be miserable? Also let's not talk about performance or ability, as the magazine testers on road and track struggle like hell to split 200bhp bikes on lap times or ability by more than a few 10ths of a second at best. When your at that level they are all so good it doesn't matter. And more to the point the ordinary bloke in the street wouldn't even be able to differentiate between them at all!

The buy an old 911 instead of an Astra remark, well just lol!

I don't think it's very important at all to analyse spec sheets, or bikes to get the most bhp for the £, or the best chassis, or the most adjustable best specced suspension for X budget. At this level it's so immaterial. There ain't nothing in them on the road, and mere fractions on a track.

Same goes with cars. I'd say looks, preference, brand loyalty or image go much further than the steering feedback, ultimate dry grip, corner speed or G-force recorded in testing. Add in all the other bollocks like which one has the highest bhp number, the least weight, or the shortest braking distances and fade resistance during repeated 70mph stops, and you see how unimportant it all is to the buyer.

Generally you've got to like the looks, brand, or design of something and to be able to afford it than its ultimate performance specifications for the money to buy it.

Do people buy a toaster that is 2seconds quicker at a round of toast tested in a lab, if it looks shit or doesn't fit in with the decor of your kitchen etc.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 00:22 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok here's my arguments distilled down:

Arrow I do not think Ducati is so much better than it's competitors that it justifies the extra money. There are bikes I'd rather buy and putting myself in the shoes of someone who likes 200bhp+ bikes, there are still bikes I'd rather buy in that case too. I think the same of MV and plenty of other bikes.

Arrow I personally don't like litre bikes, but some people do. If you want a bike to be fast, there are plenty of other options than Ducati, and some of which at a lower price point. As I said, I am still able to put myself in the position of someone who DOES like those bikes. These two points aren't mutually exclusive...

Arrow I probably wouldn't buy a brand new ZX10R anyway. For a number of reasons. £10,000+ on any bike is probably a step too far. Especially when bikes are essentially more disposable and fragile than cars. I am considering buying a car soon, and it won't be an Astra and it won't be new! The only bike recently I've even thought about dropping money on is the z900RS, which I think does 'pose' better than a Panigale. It would have to ride well too but if you want a bike to pose, why does it have to have 200bhp? Plus, it wasn't a REAL consideration, else I'd be at a dealer right now.

I don't see massive contradictions in any of this. I don't see any reason why my personal opinions should be invalid, or why other people shouldn't consider some of the factors I consider with this. People are at liberty to buy whatever bike they want of course, but they should admit the reasons they do so. And the reason you buy a Ducati is pretty much because it's a Ducati and not because it's measurably better than other bikes.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 01:17 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, well yeah I do get that you can't put a more expensive or exclusive bike on a pedestal and say it's better than a more mass produced popular alternative.

But my point was, and I do know people that are one make Die hards. Be it a Suzuki, Kawasaki, BMW or MV etc. Those people won't ever be satisfied by the argument that you can buy a different bike that's not as expensive as their brand, and would be just as good to ride if not better.

I know I'm really fucking up my points here, but it's like Harley buyers being told to go out and ride a Yamaha XV1900 to try it, as it's faster, or better to ride or more exciting whilst being ££££'s cheaper etc.

Oh and Im not a fan of 200bhp road bikes, or modern litre superbikes either. They are way too much bike for me.

If I wanted something scary or that would thrill and excite me, then a 60-70bhp 120kg bike like a tuned 250 race replica (2stroke obviously for that weight level) would be as crazy a motorbike as I'd want to experience on the road or track these days.

I think there is a world of difference between a bike that's capable and silly fast, and a bike that is usable but feels silly fast, and it goes back to the point of numbers on a spec sheet not really mattering for much.

Oh and I like the new 900 Kawasaki too, but despite how it looks and the cool style it has, I did think that at 109bhp it's only the same as a Hornet 900. I thought that for way less than its new price you could buy and trick out a Hornet to a silly degree, with Ohlins shock, SP1 front end and brakes, and a trick titanium exhaust system and Fireblade carbs and cams etc. It won't look like a Z900 but I always liked the Hornet and think it's a bike that screams to be modified.
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JAMSXR
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PostPosted: 08:09 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually think the new V4 is great value for 220bhp exotic Italian motorcycle. Part of me likes it because it will be stupidly fast, and the other part, because it’s red shiny and Italian.

I’ll never be able to afford a Ferrari, but the V4, which to me is an even more attractive proposition, is obtainable. I won’t buy one as it’s too uncomfortable on the road and too pricey (for me) as a track bike, but still, I think it’s nice bit of kit. Having heard some sound clips, it’s almost worth the 20k+ just to hear the sound of that V4 Razz
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 16:20 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jayy wrote:


They might well be one of the more expensive brands in the motorcycle industry but there you go again saying they are more about appearance than performance.

I beg to differ when they make 205 / 211 bhp V-twins / V4s.

Anyway, this is boring as fuck now. You stick to your older bikes and leave riding newer models to me Mr. Green


If you like it and enjoy it, isn't that all that matters? Get one and post up some photos. I think that would be cool.

The Ducati's not for me, but I totally get the appeal of a litre bike on the roads and the appeal of Ducati.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other factor here is the 'heritage' angle. People talk about 'Pedigree' and 'Heritage' when it comes to Ducati, but they don't have that much of a V4 heritage do they? Aren't they losing something by making their flagship road sportsbike a V4 like a Honda? I know, I know MotoGP blah blah, but that's different, that's supposed to be prototypes.
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 18:39 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAMSXR wrote:
I actually think the new V4 is great value for 220bhp exotic Italian motorcycle. Part of me likes it because it will be stupidly fast, and the other part, because it’s red shiny and Italian.


Bang on.
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Wave2k
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PostPosted: 01:36 - 31 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm tempted by one, but like any vehicle ill wait a year before i jump in.
In all reality I'll probably end up getting the 959.

Last duke I owned was a 749s back in 2006 , and I loved that thing .
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jjdugen
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 01 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ducati built a V four back in 1965, called it the Apollo. The thing was too powerful for the tyres of the time, ripped them to shreds! Gotta love Ducati!
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1198
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PostPosted: 17:55 - 01 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I suggest -
If you want, like and can afford a Ducati, buy one.
If you'd prefer a Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, whatever, if can afford one and want one, buy one of those instead?
Who's to say who's right and who's wrong?
I've a 66 plate Panigale S, it's done 5,500 miles including around Europe (Normandy, Nurburgring), with panniers. If others chose to take them on a track, fair play. You pay your money, you do your thing...
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 18:27 - 01 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's pretty amazing, and I'm using the word amazing correctly here, that the standard bike which produces 214hp requires oil changes at 7,500 and 15,000 miles for valve checks. That bloody horrid CG125 I had required more attention.

The downside is styling. I wanted something that would've made Terblanche or Tamburini(RIP)i cry with envy.

...and my longstanding gripe with these hyper sportsbikes....No adjustable footpegs for my £23,000.
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 00:33 - 03 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subject to me seeing one, riding it and hearing it in the next month or so, I will more than likely end up with one.

All the press, videos and articles I have read are saying it's made of win. I didn't like the styling on the side of the tank/fairing at first but I'd just get it vinyled like the speciale which I think looks sweet.

Yet to hear the Akra slip ons / system, 3k / 4.5k odd but if they make the bike then fuck it.

I really see this as the ultimate bike for me personally, I loved my 1299s looks and I fucking love the RSV4s sound.

Can't wait to try it out.
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JAMSXR
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PostPosted: 08:37 - 05 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sat on one last weekend. I had initially thought the styling was a slight backwards step compared to the 1299 but it looks great in the flesh.

I’ve seen that the stock bike is pumping 198bhp at the rear wheel, unbelievable. It seems Ducati have smashed it out of the park with this bike.
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GSTEEL32
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PostPosted: 09:51 - 05 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
the reason you buy a Ducati is pretty much because it's a Ducati


Yup. This pretty sums up the previous 3 pages for me.

Magazine "shoot-outs" are effectively irrelevant to me. I have a weird attraction to bikes that sound like a bag of nails until you hit the sweet spot ........
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JAMSXR
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PostPosted: 15:23 - 05 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

By all accounts the V4 wipes the floor with the competition, is far more user friendly and still sounds reasonably broken at idle.

Looking forward to see what BMW pull out the bag with the new S1000RR next year!
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 06 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It actually all boils down to the sound for me. All these 200bhp superbikes (and any 1,000cc superbike) are very very similar in performance and on the road you can't squeeze it out of them anyway.

It has to look the part as well as sound the part for me.

If I hear this bike and it sounds fucking pants with a £3k - £4.5k Akra slip on / full system... fuck it, not getting one. I'll stick with the RSV4 for another year and see what BMW offer with the fully rebuilt from the ground up S1000RR as I haven't owned one yet and been away from inline 4's for a good few years now... would be a good bike to return to them on.

At the moment as well, I can't even get an insurance company to even find the bike on their system and all the online ones don't have the V4 Panigale on there either.
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G
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PostPosted: 19:51 - 06 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jayy wrote:
It actually all boils down to the sound for me.

https://www.soundracer.se/

HTH Smile
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 20:07 - 06 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^2040 those will be selling f tonnes.
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 07 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Jayy wrote:
It actually all boils down to the sound for me.

https://www.soundracer.se/

HTH Smile


No point having a "superbike" and it sounding like a tractor Laughing
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G
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 07 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jayy wrote:

No point having a "superbike" and it sounding like a tractor Laughing

Indeed... who would want that when you can have your exotic bike sounding like a broken tractor Wink.


Last edited by G on 19:37 - 07 Feb 2018; edited 1 time in total
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