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National Grid tottering on the edge

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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 15 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
They will just get some high consumption industry to stop production

Progress will look a lot like the 1970s then.


But with fewer factories and more snowflakes than 1970.
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 02:31 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to get the debate back on topic, but I know the power industry in general have been sweating about this years now, especially since the collapse of the Horizon nuclear plan.

When I left almost three years ago there was a lot of talk about different sorts of power storage media to smooth out the dips in wind/solar generation. Three spring to mind. As mentioned, giant expensive banks of batteries were the most sensible option. Next came the idea of using excess electricity to drive air compressors, which could then power a turbine when needed. There was also the idea of using the excess electricity to electrolyse hydrogen for use in gas turbines.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 09:54 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

We lost our power last night at about 9pm. Halfway through watching War For The Planet Of The Apes.
No problem i thought, got the log burner ready to go, lit some candles and found a dvd towatch on the laptop
which still had charge, then click it came on again, we had another 20mins of power and it went off again but
only for a few minutes this time.I was quite looking forwatd to candles and a log fire...
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bamt
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PostPosted: 11:33 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:

Progress will look a lot like the 1970s then.


But with fewer factories and more snowflakes than 1970.


It would be interesting to see how the youth of today cope with regular power cuts that will also take down their broadband. Growing up, we always had a torch in a known, easy-to-get-to-in-the-dark location, together with a load of candles and matches, some packs of cards and board games.

I suppose if at least the cell towers continue to run on backup power then they'll be able to tweetface their friends about how they've been thrown back into the stoneage and are barely able to survive.

(have to admit that our house has some chunky datacentre grade UPS provision that keeps us online, with basic low energy lighting and telly boxes able to continue recording for four or five hours)
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 11:54 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

An open letter by Monbiot et al in response to eco-hippes poo-pooing Nuclear, and whinging about buying energy from France.

Worth a look.

https://www.monbiot.com/2012/03/15/a-letter-to-david-cameron/
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main flaw in that is measuring pollution by the amount of carbon, like that somehow means nuclear waste is totally safe, because low carbon. Rolling Eyes

Once there is something in place that can process the majority of the waste and leave only waste with a very very very short half life, fair enough. Until then, it's just an expensive problem to store the waste long term, with potentially catastrophic consequences.
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
The main flaw in that is measuring pollution by the amount of carbon, like that somehow means nuclear waste is totally safe, because low carbon. Rolling Eyes

Once there is something in place that can process the majority of the waste and leave only waste with a very very very short half life, fair enough. Until then, it's just an expensive problem to store the waste long term, with potentially catastrophic consequences.


He does mention reactors developed to use the waste as a form of fuel...
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 13:50 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sun Wukong wrote:
Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
The main flaw in that is measuring pollution by the amount of carbon, like that somehow means nuclear waste is totally safe, because low carbon. Rolling Eyes

Once there is something in place that can process the majority of the waste and leave only waste with a very very very short half life, fair enough. Until then, it's just an expensive problem to store the waste long term, with potentially catastrophic consequences.


He does mention reactors developed to use the waste as a form of fuel...


I saw that... He also said they aren't developed yet. Rolling Eyes
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Ste
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PostPosted: 14:32 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

bamt wrote:
It would be interesting to see how the youth of today cope with regular power cuts that will also take down their broadband. Growing up, we always had a torch in a known, easy-to-get-to-in-the-dark location, together with a load of candles and matches, some packs of cards and board games.

I've always thought that keeping a torch in a known, easily accessible place is just the done thing. To this day I keep one in my bedside cabinet. Laughing

My experience with regular power cuts was in the late 80s and the 90s so on a slightly different scale to those of you who're older than me and quite a lot of them could be put down to the ruralness of where we lived.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
I've always thought that keeping a torch in a known, easily accessible place is just the done thing. To this day I keep one in my bedside cabinet. Laughing


Is it a 6 Cell Maglite? Laughing Wink
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Ste
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PostPosted: 15:01 - 16 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shhh!
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 19:30 - 17 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

bamt wrote:


It would be interesting to see how the youth of today cope with regular power cuts that will also take down their broadband. Growing up, we always had a torch in a known, easy-to-get-to-in-the-dark location, together with a load of candles and matches, some packs of cards and board games.

I suppose if at least the cell towers continue to run on backup power then they'll be able to tweetface their friends about how they've been thrown back into the stoneage and are barely able to survive.

(have to admit that our house has some chunky datacentre grade UPS provision that keeps us online, with basic low energy lighting and telly boxes able to continue recording for four or five hours)


I don't really watch tv, I just watch youtube for a bit when I get home from uni. I carry a torch and spare battery (18650) and a spare battery for my phone.

If you want emergency lighting consider installing a couple of LEDs and power them from a solar panel with a battery for storage. I'm not a huge fan of solar but emergency and remote lighting is a niche where it performs really well. You could also have some USB outputs connected too. Something like a tablet would run indefinitely on a solar panel.
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Monkeywrenche...
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PostPosted: 12:19 - 18 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Shhh!


So a Fleshlight then?
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Mart_er6
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PostPosted: 09:02 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brexit might fix this national grid strain; net migration will fall and might even go negative (unlikely and the liberal press would have a collective heart attack). If it did go negative then that would reduce energy consumption..

However, as we've had inward net migration of approximately a cities' worth of people every year for about a decade, it would be interesting to determine the energy consumption of these extra people (and the waste they generate too while we're at it)..
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 10:31 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mart_er6 wrote:
Brexit might fix this national grid strain; net migration will fall and might even go negative (unlikely and the liberal press would have a collective heart attack). If it did go negative then that would reduce energy consumption..

However, as we've had inward net migration of approximately a cities' worth of people every year for about a decade, it would be interesting to determine the energy consumption of these extra people (and the waste they generate too while we're at it)..


It's all growth, innit.

Growth is good. Growth make GDP high. GDP high make money good good.
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panrider_uk
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PostPosted: 11:39 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:


SpaceX is probably the closest thing he's had to a profitable business since PayPal, although I believe that's only if you squint a bit and ignore the startup costs. But heck, who doesn't do that?



Um no, Falcon launches still cost more than Soyutz launches and that's with the Russians price gouging as there isn't another rocket for taking people into space.


Soyuz costs NASA > $70million per seat
Falcon 9 costs $61 million per launch (before customer discounts)
Falcon 9 estimated to cost $90million per launch (before any discounts).

Of course you can't do a direct cost comparison because the Falcon doesn't yet carry human crew.

The reusability of the Falcon 9 first stage and Dragon capsule will also bring prices down
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Last edited by panrider_uk on 16:32 - 19 Dec 2017; edited 1 time in total
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:48 - 19 Dec 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mart_er6 wrote:
migration consumption waste

Sweden have just decided they need to work their Old Swedes to death in order to serve the demands of their New Swedes.

Perhaps we could plug our Baby Boomers into some sort of Matrix stylee battery. Thinking
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